Long before the Madinah affair, I’ve thought about writing a post on the difference between Shia and Sunnis and then I thought why put myself in a minefield of misunderstandings. After reconsideration, I reasoned that nothing ever gets resolved by keeping quiet so I might as well write. When the Madinah affair happened this week, I tried to get informed but that is not possible with our “on a strict need to know” basis news organizations and biased websites. Youtube is even worse, all I could find on there was a bunch of chaotic crowds that could be either Sunni or Shia. So this is not a post on that particular incident, it’s a general post from someone who was raised Sunni, visited Qatif (where Saudi Shias are concentrated) and taught hundreds of students of both sects.
Before the international spread of the internet and Iraqi war, not much was heard or written about sectarian differences in Islam. The majority of Arabs are Sunnis with Arab Shias concentrated in Bahrain, Lebanon and Iraq. In Saudi Arabia they are a minority with most originating from the eastern region. The break in Islam into the two sects reminds me of the break between Catholic and Orthodox Christianity, with Shias resembling the Catholics with all these saints and rituals and Sunnis resembling Orthodoxies with an emphasis on puritanical practices. I have seen paintings of Ali bin Talib (RAA) that could just as well have been paintings of Jesus in a church with the beard and long hair. Saudi Sunnis interpretation of Islam could be considered as parallel to the Amish and Mormon interpretations of Christianity. If you squint and glaze over the details, the history looks quite similar, with Islam currently being in its own version of the Dark Age.
At a more personal level my experience has been mostly neutral with phases of mystification with what I hear about Shias. However my sources were questionable as they were other Sunnis like myself. I have attempted a few times to ask Shias I know about their interpretation but it was awkward and uncomfortable. Online it’s even worse when you are looking for answers from a Sunni to Shia perspective and vice versa because those forums are just a bunch of narrow minded idiots exchanging vulgar insults.
Growing up, I would hear about Shias, mostly students studying at the colleges here in the capital. Within Saudi Sunni circles controversy surrounding the Shias centers around four claims:
1- Warnings that Shias gain religious points by harming Sunnis
2- Watch Shias the day after Ashoora (Islamic day) because they always wear long sleeves and turtle-necks to hide their injuries
3- They reject and insult some of the prophet’s closest companions.
4- And of course Mutaa’ marriages (pleasure based marriages that are temporary and require no witnesses or legal papers). And I would like to note here that I was shocked to learn that this was also ok in Sunni Islam until very late in the Prophet Muhamed’s lifetime (PBUH).
When my family lived in the US we became good friends with another Saudi family who happened to be Shias from Qatif. Once back in Saudi Arabia, we visited them at their home in Qatif. It was quite fun. The family was liberal and we all sat together men and women. They also introduced us to the man’s brother and we got invited to the brother’s house as well. It was generally a pleasant experience. Qatif itself is similar to Qaseem; lots of old building and a whole bunch of areas that are called villages but to me might as well be one great big city because the distance between them doesn’t qualify them to be separate villages. They returned the visit when they came to Riyadh and the wife did something that my whole family thought was strange. They were over for dinner but she would not eat or drink anything. This could be something idiosyncratic especially considering that her husband was natural and dug in with the rest of us. But my family could not help but think that it was rude and that she might have done something to our food when we were over at their house. Again this might have nothing to do with religion or she might have thought that we meant to harm her as part of our Sunni practices. The friendship originated with the men and was strong between my father and her husband. The ladies, my mother and the wife were just playing nice and her not even drinking a cup of tea put a damper on things. Later on I got to know a lot more Saudi Shias as colleagues and students. What makes them stand out is their Arabic accent which reminds me of the Bahraini Arabic accent and the fact that they are generally more serious and hard-working than my Najdi and Hijazi students. They rarely have the spoiled materialistic air about them that the others do.
I predict that sectarian differences will remain for awhile and some warfare will be based on it, as is the case in Iraq. But eventually Arab Muslims will see the pointlessness of their squabbles and inequities. They’ll learn to be more religiously introspective rather than the current state of self-righteousness and fixation on correcting everybody else’s beliefs.
This post was not meant to offend anyone and I welcome comments here.
Some years ago, I tried to learn more about Shias. I didn’t get very far, and I gave up altogether when I read that Shias deliberately lie to non-Shias so no one else learns their deep principles. This sounds too far-fetched to be true, but I never knew any Shias well enough to ask.
I love your last paragraph. I hope I live to see the day when “Muslims will see the pointlessness of their squabbles and inequities.”
Dear Marahm,
Salam.
I am shia, and I am proud to be a shia of Muhammad wa Aal e muhammad(SAWW). I don’t know what made you feel like we shia lie! I am surprise to see your approach to know about us. I just request you to go through our main stream books and see and read about our creeds, and I am sure that will be happy that we are not like others, we always believe that if you wish to follow true Deen than Shia Islam is only path. Go and read with neutral approach.
Wa Salam
mr marahn
i am here to answer all your queries….pls dont think like that we shias are quite staunch with our religion so cannot bear any sort of reasonless criticism which any one cant bear from any religion ..so we should all respect the others beliefs and convictions ….which will make this world a better place to live in
mr marahn
i am here to answer all your queries….pls dont think like that. We shias are quite staunch with our religion so cannot bear any sort of reasonless criticism which any one cant bear from any religion ..so we should all respect the others beliefs and convictions ….which will make this world a better place to live in
Salaam
Marahm:
I have only been Muslima for 5 years, so am not like those of you who were born Muslims. I started out as Wahabbist Sunni. Later, I found myself attending a Masjid where both Sunni and Shia attend. It was astonishing to me that both sects could get along.
One of my Sunni friends told me that Shia have sex with children and beat themselves with chains until they bleed. In my time attending that Masjid, I have seen no evidence at all of either practice. These are very nice people, who love and fear Allah SWT. The men are not mean to the women and no woman wears the Niqab.
I think it is a great shame on the followers of Allah SWT, that this disagreement among Muslims could have carried on for over 1000 years.
Ma Salaama
Hala
“One of my Sunni friends told me that Shia have sex with children and beat themselves with chains until they bleed”
HAHAHA!!! Sadly, that is typical paranoid nonsense, dear.
Regarding sex with children, Saudi Arabia which is 90% Sunni has a problem with child marriages.
Child marriages also take place all over the Arab and Muslim world, and even the wider world, all over, in South America, Africa, Asia, North America, etc.
It’s a human problem, not a Shia problem. There is nothing in our faith or in our followers that targets children for marriage or sex anymore than any other religion.
In regards to beating ourselves, this SADLY DOES exist, but it is NOT CONDONED by our scholars.
I’m sure Sunni youth do stupid things not condoned by Sunni scholars as well.
May Allah guide us all; but more importantly, may we seek the real truth.
Salam.
I also hope I live to see the day when “Muslims will see the pointlessness of their squabbles and inequities.” etc. with the rest of the world.
This is a pleasant experience to read about.
I’m from Qatif,before college, i studied in pure Shiite schools,all teachers were also Shiite, but religion teachers were not because the Saudi regime prohibited non-Sunnis to teach religion, the curriculum was extreme and they wouldn’t mention Shiaa by name but inferred to them as Mushrekeen and tomb worshipers.I didn’t pay attention to the matter nor my mates.
On the first day in college, there was a hall where freshman students waiting for advisers to give them information about the college facilities and procedures.I was the first to arrive, many students came later, Sunnis and Shiites, what surprised me that unconsciously the crowd slitted into two, even though most of them didn’t know each other at all but they could guess whether they are Shiite or Sunnis.
I tried to be neutral, to talk freely with others, I mean non-Shiites, I have many friends, but shortly after i found myself more comfortable with friends from Qatif or Hasa, it’s worth mentioning that half of students are Sunnis and half are Shiite.Some of Shiites who lived in Dammam, mostly Sunni area, started to stick with those from Qatif, even they could get along with old-friend Sunnis whom they studied with in highschool.their justification is they couldn’t show they true identity in highschool because they are 3% minority and would be treated badly and even bullied.
My point most Shiits feel discrimination against them , the recent events in Madina were just vivid evidence to their assumption, the saudi police sided with the Wahhabis who declared holy war against Shia.
I read many topics arguing the loyalty of Shia, I think this is a crime, i still cant figure out why following any tiny little event, Shia loyalty must be verified? we discuss critical issues but some can’t think of anything else but Iran.we are here centuries before the the Islamic revolution in Iran, some keep saying that Shiite are troublemakers but i think this flattening of the problem.
I think without real legislation states the religious freedom is granted, these event would break and consequences are dangerous to everybody. this is not something can be done overnight, those who spread hatred against other sects in Saudi Arabia must be questioned as a matter of urgency. We need to feel safe and secure in our country.
As Salaam Alaykom:
I have only been Muslim for about 3 years and I started out in Sunni because I did not know that there was Shia.
Recently I tried Shia since Ramadan, and I must say that I find them to be very friendly, and loving people. So far, in America, I have seen no evidence what so ever of them mistreating their children and no evidence of anything but symbolic self flagelation.
I have been greatly disappointed in my Sunni friends reactions to Shia. We are not supposed to back bite.
Those events have caused me to really distance myself from radical Muslims of either side. People can just be so weird and awful to each other and I am not having any part of it.
Ma Salaama
Hala
But eventually Muslims will see the pointlessness of their squabbles and inequities. They’ll learn to be more religiously introspective rather than the current state of self-righteousness and fixation on correcting everybody else’s beliefs.
There is nothing you’ve written or in the mainstream or underground media that would suggest this is even close to being true. Sorry to be pessimistic but this is wishful thinking. This will never happen. The proof is in the pudding. Look at the state of the world, all over the world, and look at the role religion has played, look at the wars, especially within Islam (which to me seems to be the fighters of the day; fighting is not introspective), you always are seeing religious violence (i.e. Sudan, Indonesia/Malaysia, Israel/Gaza). These religions; judaism, christianity, and islam is all about someone else’s behavior. Even in your post, the tone is almost as if the Shia’s are a different species; which means you judge them, which leads to stereotyping, which leads to pointless squabbles; or do the pointless squabbles come first, then they’re judged, then stereotyped, then leads to them being treated as 2nd class citizens (in Saudi)?
BTW: Did you ask the wife why she wasn’t eating?
Jaffar
thank you for commenting I know that this is a sensitive topic that’s more taboo than women issues and I got a few butterflies after posting, even considered taking it down. But like I wrote in the beginning talking is the only way we can absolve these taboos.
BCIS
of course we asked her and insisted several times that she try anything but she kept saying that she wasn’t hungry. And I disagree about my prediction not coming true because if you read about the recent quarrel Al Qarthawi had with Shia scholars and also how schools in Iraq have developed an Islamic curriculum that’s inclusive of both sects then you’ll be a bit more optimistic.
I do not judge Shias nor do I care what the beliefs of people around me are as long as they don’t impose them on me (as is the case with muttawas). I wrote this because I wanted to help break a taboo.
Here’s one good resource to understand Shia Islam.
http://iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=108482
A very wrong link. Ismailis have got nothing to do with Shias.
Okay. Whatever you wish.
very nice discussion! i really like the way you talk about the conflict.
I was born and raised as Shia in a small town of Alhassa. when i was in an intermediate and high school, i was taught Sunni Sharee’ah from Sunni teacher in the school. in the evening, I go to Shia small Hoza, which is called small school, to learn about my Shia teaching and principles. most people in the Hoza were volunteering in teaching that and so they don’t get paid for what they teach.
I have developed a good relationship with my Sunni teacher in the morning school and with my Shia teacher in the evening school or Hoza. My goal of this type of relationship is to have a better understanding of both Shia and Sunni.
I realized that Many of my sunni teacher have a really wrong perception about Shia! and whenever i tried to correct it, they think of me as someone practicing (Taqeeh) which means, say something about your sect in front of public to aviod arguing and hide what you truly believe.
at the Age of 19, i went to Iran during the summer to study Islamic logic, Philosophy and Shia Foqeh. why did i go Iran to learn that. it is because there is a city called “Qom” it is the center of Shia scholar. it is very much like Alazhar school in egypt!
i stopped my learning journey about both Shia and Sunni right after i got my scholarship to USA. Now, i am focusing on learning about Judaism and Christianity.
anyway, i gave this introduction just to give you an overview about my learning journey. i will talk later about what i came up with from my learning journey! like how did the conflict started! and why is it keep going till now? and what should both Shia and Sunni do to go over it? and why it is important to stop the fight now before it is too late! and so on
overview of the problem:
saudi society or tradition is built upon what people hear . so basically people in saudi arabia , people often make “their web of belief” based on non-factual information. what i mean by that is that people don’t question that much. they don’t read that much. they don’t research that much. their learning scope is limited to what they heard from their families or friends or the school.
at the age of the internet, the problem got worse! saudi people start their learning journey from the wrong direction (internet). as you said, both Sunni and shia website are biased and they give a bunch of stupid stories about each other.
- How the conflict got head up in the Saudi society?
since we believe what we hear or see without questioning, we became very much a slave to the person that tell us the stories. that person can have a full control of our perception and understanding. He can for example, motivates us to hate the other sector or love based on the kind of stories or lies he tell.
for example, you may encounter a shia person who have heard a story from his friend that Sunni people put something in the food to harm the shia. and you may encounter a sunni person who may have heard from his friend that Shia pray for Imam Ali instead of god.
so basically the absent of rationality and independent thinking in Saudi society made the problem worse year after year
who can benefit from the conflict!
- politician in Saudi Arabia get advantage of such a conflict. how and why?
i will explain that :
when people get busy of fighting back and forth with each other, they consume the majority of their time and power in that regard. this means that they ignore everything else that isn’t related to their fight.
For example, people ignore the problem with bad health care they have, the poverty problems, the bad education system and so on just because they don’t have enough time to think and fight about them.
don’t be surprised if you see a poor father buying a book about (Shia-Sunni problems) with the few money he has and leaving his family with no food. because basically he think that the conflict is enjoyable and more important than his family!
many saudi look at the (Shia-Sunni conflict) as a very enjoyable game. believe me many saudi like to see this conflict keep going forever. because this is the only way that idiot people can get the chance to be famous, important and well respected among their friends. believe it or not, we saudi think of the person who discuss Shia-Sunni stuff as an intellectual person. people may ask him to lead the prayer in every Jomah and do a daily lecture because he has been involved in such a conflict.
- the absent of diversity in Saudi Culture:
this is very important cause for the conflict. we aren’t diversified society. we don’t have a wide range of different thoughts and belief in our culture. our perception is like this , you are either a muslim or atheist who want to destroy my religion. you are either a sunni or shia. our mentality goes with the saying “you are either with me or against me”
we have only black or white and we don’t accept otherwise.
- the absent of communication channel:
in the university, Shia students got along only with Shia, and Sunni students get along only with their sunni friends. There is a wall that prevent the communication channel between Shia and Sunni. this is why everyone perceived OTHERS based on his imagination.
if i don’t talk to you, and you don’t talk to me, how could i understand you and could you understand me? if you didn’t speak up about the issue in your blog and i didn’t write my comments here, how would you and i improve and understand each other!
communication channel is very very important, and it is the first step we should take to resolve the conflict
Communicate ! communicate ! communicate !
Communicate! Communicate! Communicate!
something the whole world is lacking
“But eventually Arab Muslims will see the pointlessness of their squabbles and inequities.”
Call me an optimistic wishful thinker but i really believe this is possible but most likely not in our lifetimes… i hope my daughter gets to experience it..
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Excellent Post…I was raised in Jeddah, I never heard any positive thing about Shia, when I worked for soem time in Riyadh, it was the same, but when I moved to US, a Shia student came over to my desk in my first week and introduced himself, he was from Bahrain and heard that I’m from Saudi Arabia and wanted to offer any help needed, and he did just that with all respect and care, I asked him if he knew anyone in the Community perhapse from goinf to the University Islamic center but he said he never go there because a friend told him that he was asked by the Sunni not to pray in his Shia way in the Masjid least new Muslims may get affected…Anotehr Bahraini sunni friend told me that there are strict reulations in Bahrai so that Shia wouldn’t be in command…This proves the negativity toward Shia among the public and the harm that this would do the development of any nation…
The solution to grant every sect his right is to move away from the religious affiliation as way of judgement and by declaring a secular state in our country where laws and regulations are based on the choice of people-elected represntatives, only then, everyone can be well represented and respected…
I am a sunni, are you intrested as a friend
As an American convert Muslim honestly I could care less about the whole sunni shia thing. I take people at face value you can be a total pain and be of either sect.
I was quite surprised when moving to saudi that people with access to the same language could be so completely ignorant of each others beliefs. I was once invited to a sisters religious gathering to talk about the diyn and this one ‘wahabi’ type woman started the session with talking negatively about shia to a bunch of new or old convert women. She was a Saudi and “had the language” so she claimed to know best. I sat and listened for a minute until she started going on about how shia get rewards for kililng sunnis so don’t eat or drink anything from them. Since I’m a loud mouth the rest of my stay wasn’t a pleasant one as I blasted such ignorant thinking.
There is such a common belief of mistrust on both sides that I think it will take a long time to look beyond what one ‘is’ especially in Saudi. The same cultural mindset that can’t get beyond ones tribe isn’t going to be able to get beyond ones sect.
Quite frankly I wouldn’t expect a shia family to come and eat at my house no matter how many times I extend an invitation. And I wouldn’t be surprised the wife wouldn’t eat or drink. As strongly as some sunnis believe that shia are out to kill them shia think the same thing. Also keep in mind their dietary guidelines are different than your own.
Just this year I had to explain to my children that there is sunni and shia they hadn’t a clue
My son soon realized he is a minority among a majority of shia in his class. I had to educate him only because he told his class mates who were shia he was shia and those that are sunni he was sunni (he’s easy that way) so he had some friends over who were shia and he told them he was shia. My husband laughed and said “I think they figured out when the saw me Jihad isn’t shia” I told him “they figured it out when they saw our youngest son Umar” 
Hello, just came here from American Bedu. Very nice post. I do agree with BCIS that unity would be very, very optimistic. Not because regular believers wouldn’t be up for it, but because the people controlling things would not want to give up their power to someone else…and that’s what it all comes down to in the end.
Also, incidentally, I think you meant to say that Shia and Sunni are like Catholics and Protestants. Catholics and Orthodox are actually fairly similarly concentrated on ritual and saints. It is the Protestants who try to be more “rational” in their belief. It is interesting though, that you make that comparison – I had never heard it before and it does make some sense.
I don’t know any shias, but in general, though I disagree with the philosophy, I do think it is very romantic.
Nzingha, how can one tell by just looking at someone if they are Sunni or Shia?
I really enjoyed the open minded way in which you broached this very emotive subject. I agree with you totally that most internet discussions are hijacked by strange extremists from both sides, and the debate usually ends in name calling and accusations of being a kaffir!
I am shia and grew up in Bahrain. My whole life I mixed openly with Sunni Bahrainis and in fact my very best friends are sunni. Once you live with a people you realise that they are not so different from yourself and you become more tolerent of differences. Growing up I was vaguely aware of a latent anti-shia discrimination (there are much fewer shia in positions of high office in both the public and private sectors than demographics would suggest considering it is a majority shia country, and Shia are banned from positions in the armed forces, a major employer). Inequalities are rife, the gap in average wealth levels between the two sects is large. Despite these structural imblances, I never actually encountered a single individual who looked down upon me because I am shia (even amongst friends I met in school who were members of the royal family). There was always a sense that despite our differences we are all muslims and should support one another. An atmosphere of religious tolerence pervaded and so I never grew up resentful of sunnis. I certainly was never raised to believe that killing a sunni was religiously encouraged (in fact, that’s the first time I’ve even heard such a thing mentioned! I know of an old women who say that if you eat at a sunni’s house and they know you are shia they will poison you, but that was one very old woman who was slightly senile and her comments were politely refuted by the rest of the shia women who heard it). I have always dined at my sunni friend’s houses and vice cersa and I am not strange in this respect, I have never encountered a single Bahraini of this or my parent’s generation who has cared whether their dining companion is from one sect or another, on the whole they care more about the quality and quantity of the food! We are a nation of food lovers
That said, there was always more suspicion amongst the shia I grew up amongst of Saudi sunnis than there was of Bahraini sunnis. In particular, growing up you hear about “wahhabi’s” and are told that they hate the shia and say that their blood can be spilt without sin (funny how each side frightens the other with the same threats!). I heard the same childish nonsense about hindus and sikhs, thankfully my parents educated me and taught me to open my mind. Personally, I never believed Saudi sunni’s wanted to kill me and my family but I did have the humiliating experience myself aged 10 of being told by my Saudi Islamic Studies teacher in front of the whole class that I prayed incorrectly and that my prayers were not acceptable to Allah because I am a shia and so I would go to hell. It was an experience that was so shocking to me that I remeber it vividly 20 years on! It was my sunni friends who comforted me as I wept on the school stairs that day.
I will say that it saddens me greatly to see that the once inclusive atmosphere in Bahrain is changing and sectarian divides are becoming more prominent. I think there are a number of reasons for this, the most significant being the situation in Iraq. Since the invasion, and since Iraq descended into sectarian war, the atmosphere in Bahrain was poisoned. In addition to this, as times get harder and unemployment rises, and the gap between rich and poor widens, the population has become restless. Riots and civil unrest is almost a daily occurrence in the shia villages. Most of these people have no real ideology or argument – they are unemployed young men causing trouble. But I do believe that resentment is growing amongst the shia because they believe they have fewer rights and are discriminated against in Bahraini society, and this has heightened sectarian tensions too. Add to this a rather heavy handed and hysterical treatment by the powers that be and the situation becomes all the more volatile.
I share your hopes that we will stop bickering about petty differences and learn to debate without name calling and threats. It’s disheartening to go home and feel the atmosphere poisoned by a hatred which I know to be new. I hope that we can go back to the way things were where we respectfully agreed to disagree about certain things and got on with our lives!
I like your ideas… WE ARE ONE!
mashallah! May Allah bless you!
I really liked your last paragraph…
Yeh, we should’nt care about the lil differences and trust each other….
I’am 50 yrs old, currently reading all your views here. It’s good that you have this kind of interaction to this page. I am a Christian this is the only thing I can say to you “God judge Us to what is in our Heart, what we do to our brothers n sisters ” . The reason why God or Allah give us this gift of “THINKING” is for us to decide between the right and wrong which he does’t knew which way were going through. IT IS WITHIN OURSELVES and when time come HE will ask “what we do during our time here on this earth?”. We can proudly say I am Not rich with MaterialThings but with lots of Brothers and Sister of Different views but One Goal to Reach YOU
ALLAH ALMIGHTY…
Hello,
Thank you for your post. It was a very interesting read. I am a Bahraini shia woman married to a Palestinian sunni man. My husband is very well read when it comes to Islamic history and religion so he is very tolerant and open minded when it comes to shia. When you ask him whether he is sunni or shia, he will say that he is just a Muslim. As for me, I am neither specifically sunni nor shia in my beliefs and I enjoy reading books by both sunni and shia islamic scholars. Culturally however, I am shia. The reason I say that is that is because I identify with the feeling of being a minority in the muslim world and also identify with the baharna who are the original inhabitants of bahrain and who happen to be shia.
I disagree with your post that shia are more like catholics and sunnis are more like protestant or orthodox christians. Superficially thats true. However, when it comes to belief, the differences between orthodox, protestants and catholics are vast. This is not true for sunni and shia muslims. Shia muslims, like sunnis, pray five prayers a day, fast during the month of ramadhan, give zakah, go to hajj and believe in one God and that Mohammad is the prophet of God. Like sunnis, we believe in God, the Prophets, the angels, the holy books, the day of judgment, and qadah and qader. While we pray with our hands to our sides, we utter the same things with some slight varations. These varations are the same as any varation concerning prayer in the maliki, shafi, hanbali and hanafi schools of thought. By the way, Maliki sunnis also pray with their hands to their side.
What are the differences then? The differences basically stem from the period after the prophets death. Shia basically believed that the Prophet appointed Ali as his sucessor while sunnis believed that the successor should be Abu Bakr. Moving a step further, shia believe that the khalifa should be both the moral and political head of the society. And they believe that morally, only a descendant from the prophet through fatima can be that moral head because they have special knowledge on how to lead a muslim society. This special knowledge is based on hadith al kisaa in which the prophet sat with Ali, Fatima, Al Hasan and Al Hussain and purified them. I am not sure how sunnis interpret that hadith. Sunnis on the otherhand believe that the political leader of a society does not necessarily have to be the moral leader. This is why they accepted Muawiya and Yazid as leaders of the muslim umma even though they did several unislamic things. Many sunni scholars at the time disagreed with their form of rule but they believed that it is better to stay quiet than to cause unrest. You can say that Sunnis were more pragmatic and shias were more idealistic.
You have to remember that The period after the prophet’s death was a tumultuous period of time. After the prophet died, there were 4 fitnas. It was a violent time. Both Ali (karam Allah wajhu) and Uthman (radiya Allah 3anu) were killed violently. The fitan were not just between Sunna and Shi3a. But there were also the Khawarij, who are the ones that killed il imam Ali, and the Al-Ansar, which were against bay3at Abu Bakir il siddiq (radiya Allah 3anu) and also the Muhajareen people of Mecca which were against anyone from Al-Ansar becoming the Khalifa. There also was bani umaya who only wanted their family members to become a khalifa. There was Aisha radiya allah 3anha and her cousins Talha and Zubair who opposed the rule of both il imam Ali and Uthman Bin Affan. I was raised to believe that they were all good people and had the best interest of the Muslims in their hearts. The Shia say that the prophet appointed Ali to become the successor and the Sunna say that the prophet never specified, others say he would have wanted Abu Bakar. The Shia say that only a person from Ahl Al Bayt can become a khalifa, the sunnis say that only a person from Quraysh can become a Khalifa. The Ansar say (and their opinion is non-existent now) that it should be a pure democracy. I personally do not take a stance one way or another. This is history and there are a variety of opinions.
Shia Muslims do not worship Ali like many sunnis shockingly seem to think. Like I said before, shia are muslims just like sunnis are. Worshiping Ali is considered shirk by shia just as it is considered to be shirk by sunnis. Shia like sunnis believe that the Prophet Mohammad is Khatim il Anbiyaa and the most important prophet sent to mankind. There is no doubt in that.
Shia do hold Ali and Fatima in high regard though -the reason being that they were the only Muslims at the prophets time who were raised completely by the prophet. That is the justification that Shi3a give for placing Ali and Fatima in such high regard. The Quran talks a lot about the importance of ahl il bayt – unfortunately some Sunnis interpret ahl il bayt as meaning only the prophets wives and some Shi3a interpret ahl il bayt as being only the prophets blood relatives. I and my family are in the view that ahl il bayt means both. But yes, I do hold Ali and Fatima in high regard- as do many Sunna. There are countless hadiths saying that he is the city of knowledge and Ali is his gate, who makes Fatima sad makes the prophet sad. You can find these hadiths in sahih muslim and sahih bukhari. There is another hadith where he told the Muslims that he is leaving them two things: the quran and ahl il bayt. Just open sahih bukhari, sahih muslim, and tirmithi. As for Shi3a saying bad things about Abu Baker, Omar and Othman, radiya allah anhum, well I admit there are some shi3a that do this horrible thing but I and my family disagree with this and so do everyone I know in Bahrain. But you have to remember that sunnis have done the same thing too. During Yazid and Muawiya’s time, it was mandated to curse Ali bin Abi Talib during the friday sermon. This continued until the time of Umar bin Abdul Aziz who banned this practice. By the way most shia scholars ban the cursing of the sahaba. They do not ban criticizing them however. After all, they are only human and we cannot put them at the level of the prophet. To get a better understanding of our history, it is important to look at the role the major players had critically.
What about the other main difference? The commemoration of ashura. Shia and most sunnis of the time by the way (although the did not actively support him) believe that Al-Hussain went to war with Yazid to preserve Islam as a religion. Yazid was a really bad muslim and Al Hussain wanted the Islamic leadership to be a moral one. He was slaughtered along with his family by Yazid’s troops. We believe that he died sacrificing himself for islam and we commemorate his martyrdom is order to remember the importance of this sacrifice and in order to remind ourselves that we too have to sacrifice for the good of islam. As for the blood, this is among the fringes of shia. Focusing on the fact that some shia make themselves bleed is like when Americans focus on Muslims bombing other countries. These are the fringes and do not represent the majority. Iran by the way which is the largest shia country in the world bans these practices. In bahrain it was banned also by the shia there until recently. I ask sunnis to focus on the meaning of ashura and why we commemorate it – because the martyrdom of the Prophets grandson is truly a universal story which we can all learn from.
What about visiting the graves of the shia imams? A lot of shia do that still. I would like to remind you that until recently, a lot of sunnis had the same practice. All you have to do is go to Pakistan and Egypt and Syria and see sunnis flocking towards the graves of Il sayida Zaynab, or the prophet Yahya, il sayida Sakina and Imam Hussain or of the Sufi teachers. However, the practice is beginning to die out especially among sunnis. Why? Because sunnis have been influenced by Wahabi and Salafi teachings (I know this is a controversial phrase but I use it to save time) which taught that there should be no medium whatsoever between a human and God. So why do some shia still visit the graves of Imams? They definately do not worship them. However, because they believe that they were exemplary muslims, they believe that these people can basically itwas9at for them with God. Do I believe that? No. But is that belief really foreign to all muslims? Not really. How many muslims have asked their mother or their grandmother or some good muslim to make duaa for them. Many do so because they believe that God answers the prayers of these good muslims. It is also similar to the general muslim belief that the prophet will itwa9at for his people on the day of judgment. While this is not the same as visiting the graves of imams, the practice is certainly not that foreign of a concept. Societies throughout the world have a practice of going to the graves of good and religious people and asking them to talk to God for them. I think that the concept of a purely direct relationship with God is hard for many people to grasp so sometimes they feel that they should do something extra to ask people who they know are good to make duaa for them to God.
About Taqiya, I never heard of it in my life until I studied the concept in college. I believe that taqiya is a stronger practice in druze and alawi cultures for various reasons than it is with the ithna ashariya shia. However, if a person is going to kill me if I admit that I am shi3i, then obviously I would lie to them and say it is not. I don’t think this is too radical of a concept. Additionally, religious minorities in general do not like talking about their specific beliefs because they feel like they are under attack. I think this is only natural.
As for the shi3i family that you visited that did not eat with you, that has nothing to do with shiasm. I think it is either cultural or just the practice of that specific family. The funny thing is that the exact same thing happened when my parents and I first ate dinner at my husband’s house. We were all confused and offended but then we realized that they meant no harm.
By the way, everything that I discussed pertains to the beliefs of the ithna ashariya shia also known by their math-hab which is the jafari math-hab (by the way the jafari math-had is recognized as an official math-hab by Al-Azhar). The jafari shia make up the majority of the shia in the muslim world and they are the shia that you find in Iran, Bahrain, Iraq, Lebanon and the eastern cost of Saudi Arabia. There are also Ismaili shia who mostly can be found in India and Pakistan and Zaydi shia that can be found in yemen. I do not know a lot about these shi3i sects so I cannot speak for them. I do know that they believe in one God and the prophet though just like other muslims. I think Zaidi shia are closer to sunnis in their doctrine than itha-ashariya shia.
Thanks again for your excellent post.
I always had a desire to know and understand about shia and their practices. But your post has satisfied a lot. There are some more confusions but I thanks to you atleast to bring me closer to them. I began to feel we are one .
Thanks a lot.
Wow, your comment just showed both sides of the story, which is amazingggg because half the shias dont know the sunnis side and majority of the sunnis dont know the shias side. Its the fact that the an old argument of who should succeed the Prophet (PBUH) is still continuing after 1400 years, when we don’t even have one specific leader anymore.
I liked your post… thanks for so much info. i really needed to know that.. may allah bless you !
As an Ithna-ashari (Twelver) Jafari, who has widely read on Islamic history, I can attest that this is one of the most concise and articulate explanations of the Shia-Sunni split.
Allah bless you, sister Reeshiez. Fantastic job at expressing our point of view.
Good post but you yourself fall victim to the same mistake of making assumptions about Sunni beliefs.
As a Sunni, I can tell you I have never come across anyone who holds Yazeed in any esteem or respect. He is generally referred to as “Yazeed lanaati” and many Sunni scholars say he is outside the fold of Islam. I agree that Wahabis tend to refer to him as a muslim and argue against anyone calling him a kaffir.
Reshiez
Thank you for making it clear for most of us who had a different concept of what Shia’s are and their beliefs.
Excellent post – The basics or fundamentals (which counts) of Islam – “going through your post found that ‘- there is no difference at all – if it is there it is very minor which is negligible.
May Allah grant you a long life full of happiness.
elle- I haven’t a clue I can’t tell peoples nationality let alone if they are shia or sunni. It was my husbands comment who seems to believe there are times you can tell by looking at someone if they are shia or sunni. I’m totally ignorant on that end.
I think accents are the easiest way to tell whether someone is Shia or Sunni (Although I have a sunni Bahraini accent because I went to school in a sunni area!)… that and our 6th toe
Again, very interesting to read. Having grown up for 40 years in the centre of the irish catholic/protestant ‘troubles’ I find nothing more distasteful than people arguing over the ‘same’ religion…….
The main of body of Shia in Iran and The Gulf are Raafidah Shia, also known as Twelvers (Ithna Ashareeyah). Of course there other Shia sects too, some more and some less extreme. It must be noted that many of the Shia differ from Islaam in such significant areas that it begs the question as to how Sunnis could have brotherhood and friendship with them. For example, many Shias go to the graves in Najaf and Karbala to call upon (make dua) to Alee and Hussain. They may call directly upon Alee and Hussain or seek intercession through them. In addition, the Shias call upon others too, other than our Creator, Allaah. We all know that dua is classed as worship and I’m sure that everyone who has posted here knows from their Aqeedah lessons, that calling upon other than Allaah is Shirk Akbar, which takes you outside of Islaam. For this there is no doubt. So how can brotherhood and friendship exist with Mushrikeen? Furthermore, this main body of Shia in The Gulf, in Iran and in Lebanon also state that the vast majority of the Sahabah (Companions) are disbelievers and they show great enmity towards them (ie. Sahabah). We all know from many narrations and even from the Qur’aan that Allaah and His Messenger love the Sahabah. So how can we befriend those (Shia) who hate the Sahabah? This cannot be reconciled. Moreover, if you ask the Jews, who are the best of people after Moses, they will say the companions of Moses. If you ask the Christians, who are the best people after Jesus, they will say the disciples of Jesus. But if you ask the Shia (Raafidah) who are the worst of people after the Prophet Muhammad, they will say the companions of The Prophet Muhammad!
Let us also not forget what Iranian leaders have said since the “Islaamic” revolution in 1979. Many politicians, “imams” and leaders have made claims to Sunni lands, plans for the Hijaz and expanding the Shia religion. There have been news reports from Morocco and Egypt recently detailing Iranian attempts to convert people from Sunniism to Shiaism. The Iranian nuclear threat is also something to be concerned about. If Iran reaches nuclear capability, it will be the regional superpower and the GCC and other Sunni states will live in its shadow. Then you’ll have a considerable problem, especially with the Shia minorities in GCC countries.
You have to remember that there are extremists on both sides of the division. Of course there are Shias that will say anything to make the Sunnis sound evil, just like there are Sunnis who do the same with the Shias. You cannot generalize the ideals of both sides but what some extremists do. Because if that was the case, Islam’s name is totally ruined because of these extremists.
bro calm down… u can’t blame all shia’ah’s for what the iranian government did in the past…. I think it’s time for all the GCC States and Iran to meet and unite i.e. if a western power opposes any…. they all support each other…. e.g. if Iran is threatened, we all back Iran! after all we are all muslims!
Zubair, what is there in your post that supports the cause that the original post was all about (unity)?
let me start by saying that i have lived in the US most of my life, and therefor do not know so much about religion. however, i can also say that my uncle is a very very good source of information on shia islam as he can convey in words difficult concepts very easily.
now, from what i have learned growing up our family is very strict religiously. and what i know i know for certain of our beliefs (we are shia after all).
however in 2006 at my uni we had a LARGE influx of saudi students. from what i have heard them say about shia (before they knew i was one) it is all misconceptions and lies!
whenever i go back home (kuwait) i ask my uncle about certain things. this is because while i believe that both sunni and shia are correct ways to follow islam (except the extreme cases), there is always a “best practice” for many situations.
what i have learned is that for the things that sunni may consider 7aram the shia have rather valid points as to why they are not. keep in mind that the most knowledgeable shia and sunni scholars would know more about religion than 99% of us.
please remember not to judge until u know why the other side does things. and probably it’s best to ask someone who REALLY understands not just anybody.
its thanks to people like the guy right above me and sunni hating shia that we don’t get along and call each other kuffar. if there was no hatred, then we could all see the truth with clear eyes.
i really don’t think god judges us differently, for we all follow the quran. remember, the compilers of the hadith are humans, he sources of hadith are humans. with so many hadith, some are bound to be incorrect even after extreme study and qualifications.
Salaam alaikum,
Saudiwoman, I found your blog yesterday via American Bedu and have been enjoying reading it very much. I spent two years in Saudi as a small child (my parents were working in Riyadh) and have always been curious about it and wanted to return. I hope someday that will be possible.
I converted to Islam 4 years ago at a Shia mosque in my city in the States. The Shia part was rather by accident; it just happened that this masjid was the first to reply to my email asking about meeting with a sister. (So any Sunnis reading this who want to get hold of us new converts before we’re corrupted by the Shia kafir, please answer your emails more promptly, OK?) It so happens that I am more comfortable with Sunni practice in some important areas (e.g. I am not comfortable with the focus on the twelve imams in Shia practice), but my knowledge is limited and I completely agree with the commenter who wrote that most people, Shia, Sunni, or whatever really don’t know their own religion that well, let alone that of others. One of the most beneficial lessons I’ve learned as a convert is that just as the vast majority of people who talk about Islam actually know next to nothing about it, I probably know very little about a lot of the stuff I run my own mouth about!
Anyway, I just wanted to say that in my experience of the local Shia community they were very respectful of Sunni Muslims. I was part of a conversation in which a young woman of Iranian/American descent joked that I certainly shouldn’t think of becoming “one of those people” (Sunnis) and she was very promptly hushed by the older women who told her not even to say that sort of thing as a joke. On the other hand, it’s my understanding that the Muslim cemetery in our state is only open to Sunni Muslims, which is a shame as there aren’t even that many Muslims here and very many fewer Shia. Many of the Shia are refugees and it’s hard for the community to find funds for such things as a cemetery or a private school for their children. The Sunni community is much better funded.
Finally, while I understand why people draw analogies between the Sunni/Shia and Protestant/Catholic schisms, I am uncomfortable with such comparisons. I have found that it leads people to make assumptions about Muslims and the past and future of Islam that are inaccurate, and, again, they assume they understand these issues rather than thinking they should ask questions and educate themselves. This applies in particular to discussions of the invasion of Iraq and possibilities for Iraq’s political future. I think there’s a revisionist history being written in which the US role in disrupting Iraqi society and failing to have a practical understanding of its realities and a plan for how to manage them after the invasion is forgotten, and there’s a sort of washing of our hands by saying, “Oh well, Sunnis and Shia have been killing each other for hundreds of years…” Of course religious differences have been and will always be red meat for power-hungry politicians, but it’s also true that in many places Sunnis and Shia haven’t been killing each other for hundreds of years. So the conversation needs to be more more sophisticated, not simpler.
And finally for real this time, I really appreciate the lengthy and valuable explanations of Shia thought and practice given by some of the commenters above.
Saudis are not Sunnis; Saudis are Wahhabis. Sunnis do not recognize the Wahhabis as Muslims, wahhabis are a sect originated from Jews. Even the Saud family are originated from Jews. These are undeniable facts.
Actually the majority of the population are Sunni ruled by a Wahabbi minority. Your comment about jews is not worth replying to.
Aslam o alaikum to all,
Male from Pakistan, i just want to say that the people in our area are more extremist and have vast bloodshed in this regard but after passing some time here in uae i found out that still in our areas we respect others,
I, shia, have all my friends sunni in pakistan, i pray in sunni mosque and never had any problems from anyone, we are organizing our Event in Muharram and all the sunni neighbours and friends are equally participating with us.
but here in uae the prob is in the heart, on the face you might will not see but in heart it is there, that actually stops the chance of good ties.
I think we should open our mind, learn to behave and be patient on the views that goes against us, while working with christians, Hindu or Jews we never think so even they deny Allah and our prophet but with each other why we are losing our patience,
anyway, nice try and i think proper discussion is needed, not to convert but to create a good relation.
by the way we never hestitate in eating with sunni or they with us shias,
Salam 3laikum
I read all the comments and was happy that it all could go so peacefully in such way.
@Kiumars, Dont speak false please, this topic is really simple and sophisticated, dont make complications. Wahhabis are not linked with jews in anyway. Ibn al wahhab, the cause of WAHHABI termology,,, was born in Uyayna, which is in Saudi arab near riyadh. He was a Muslim of strong belief, and is truly withing the sunni frame of Muslims.
I truly believe in the freedom of religion a minority or majority wishes to have at a particular place and at a particular time. But I do oppose democracy! its truly a non practical way of government.
In an Islamic state, the shites wishes to enforce Muta’a (pleasure marriages) on daily basis, it cannot be allowed! Christians or Jews majority wishing alcohol to be allowed, it cannot be done! its just not possible.
Suppose if a large majority of americans gather together, and say that killing a person should be allowed and should not be penalized ,,, can this happen? so it is not necessary that what majority demands, should be fulfilled. It has to be according the Government”s and country’s ideology and not on the basis of minorities or majorities living inside it.
Very well topic, and very happy to see intellectual people around.
Jeddah, Saudi arab
Ibn al Wahab was condemned by his own father for his beliefs and was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of muslims. We would be better off without his “strong beliefs”.
Salams
Coming back to the original post that was made, I would be more than happy to discuss and inform you about shia concepts and beliefs in a very neutral manner. Regarding some of the points you mentioned, let me clarify a few things:
…with Shias resembling the Catholics with all these saints and rituals
Please note that rituals are not ‘part’ of shia religions. These are practices of the people and terming them as part of religion is incorrect. There is a need to differentiate between religious beliefs as per the religion and the practices of people (some of which practices may not even be in line with the religion). Religion is the religious laws, not the practices of the people.
I have seen paintings of Ali bin Talib (RAA) that could just as well have been paintings of Jesus in a church with the beard and long hair
I dont know how you might have seen them. As per my knowledge, all the A’alims in shia religion forbid drawing of a living bieng (with certain exceptions) and in case of Holy Prophet/Imams (including Ali bin Talib a.s.), it is prohibited to draw them or draw their faces or whatever (withOUT any exceptions..completely forbidden). Again, a practice of a people can not be made part of religion, like I said earlier.
1- Warnings that Shias gain religious points by harming Sunnis
Quite the opposite, I have always come accross shias as trying very hard to please thier sunni counterparts to improve thier acceptability within the sunni circle and islam at large. And it has mostly been shias who have had been oppressed. Take the example of Pakistan where I come from, all shia professionals, from doctors to engineers were target-killed in all major cities. Currently, there is a mass exodus and immigration of shias from two cities, namely Dera Ghazi Khan and Dera Ismail Khan where they were threatend that if they did not leave the city, they will be killed. They stood thier ground, saw killings of thier children and men and women, 4-5 suicide bombings in mosques and funerals and finally decided to leave. Yes, shias do retaliate, but they are forced to retaliate and fight back, although personally i do believe in patience and not retaliating as much as possible. and that is the teaching of the shia religion too. Even if there are or have been incidents of shias harming sunnis, and even if they are un-justifiable, this again is a practice of the people and nothing to do with religion itself which prohibits harming a muslim brother. its like if the sunnis (or a particular sect within them) kill shias and i generalise that ‘all sunnis harm shias’ its not that way…generalising is never a fair thing to do…
Do you not question the coincidence between the rise of Saudi funded institutions and groups in Pakistan and the increase of sectarian terrorism particularly against Shiite and the main Sunni group Jamaat Ahle Sunnah? Pakistan did not have these problems before the rise of Zia and the influx of US & Saudi money for the “Afghan” Mujahideen.
2- Watch Shias the day after Ashoora (Islamic day) because they always wear long sleeves and turtle-necks to hide their injuries
One of the most controversial of all rumours. Let me increase your knowledge regarding this:
a- Why is this said: because some shias beat thier chest/back with chains or knives and injure themselves.
b- Is this done by all shias? No, hardly less than 1-2%. Maximum 5% in certain cities accross the world
c- Why dont all shias do it? Because its a matter of personal choice
d- Is this compulsory in shia religion? No, it is NOT.
e- Is it part of religion or religious practices? No, it is NOT. It only depends on each individual’s personal perspective
f- Why do some shias who do it, do it? what is the reason or logic behind this seemingly illogical act of hitting oneself? Detailed reply, please read here: http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/azadari/en/chap1.php
g- Why dont the Shia Aalim prohibit it? None of the shia Aalim (Mujtahid/Shiekh as they are called, who give out the religious fatwa [edicts/laws]), have ever said its preferable or thawab (sawab…of religious benefit) to do any such thing. Plus, all Aalims agree that it is haraam if it is ruining the image of shias, If one beleives his action will ruin the image of Shias as a whole it will be haraam (prohibited) on him to do all this stuff like beating himself with knives or blades. This thing has no place in religion and is NOT part of Shia religion, beliefs, laws or faith.
food for thought: After the Battle of Ohud, in which the Holy Prophet (saws) lost his teeth, one companion, sahabi, Owais Qarni (raa), on hearing the sad news, broke his own teeth. When people saw this, and reported it to the Prophet (saw) he smiled and said “Indeed Owais is our devoted friend”. He did not say anything regarding the prohibition of hurting oneself in love of someone like the Prophet (saw). And esp the ‘someone’ here in question is the grandson of the prophet (saw) who loved him beyond anything. Some shias who do this act of hurting themselves with blades or knives, justify it by narrating this incident of Owais Qarni. You can find more about this incident, its sources from Ahl-SUnna books including scanned copies and website links here: http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/azadari/en/chap9.php. You might want to read all chapters as they explain in detail the logic behind the mourning of martydom of Imam Hussain bin Ali bin Talib (as).
3- They reject and insult some of the prophet’s closest companions.
An oft qouted blame on shias. You need to have a much deeper understanding of the companions and thier history to understand the shia belief regarding them. However, let me clear a couple of things:
- we do not ‘reject’ them. They were companions, fine, so they were. What question is there about rejecting them?
- We do not insult them. (again, if you find someone doing that, its his own personal practice, it is NOT part of shia religion, laws or belief.) Infact, this goes against the general islamic law and principal relating to the respect of all people, not just the companions. and the companions are especially to be respected.
However, what shias do infact do is, they consider, based on historical facts available in all shia/sunni books, that there were some wrongs comitted by some handful of companions and based on those wrongs, shias do not consider that these certain companions are as praiseworthy as the rest of the comapnions of the holy prophet (Saw) who led a more pious life. Do you know Fatima [as] (daughter of the Prophet saw), made a point in her will that when she dies, she be buried in the dead of the night so ‘certain’ people would not know about it and thus not attend it. To date, no one knows where she is buried. She was so hurt by them that these certain comapnions, after her death, used to cry over the fact that she left the world before they could apologize from her. The prophet (saw), time and again, mentioned his love for his daughter, and in words such as ‘whoever angers her angers me, whoever hurts her hurts me’. How can shias, who claim to love the prophet and his ahlul bayt(his family), who have been order in Quran to love the ‘next of kin’ Say: No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin.” (Quran: 42:23)., how can one love the prophet and his children and at the same time love those who hurt them? The distaste of the shias regarding certain comapnions is based on the premise that you can not love those who hurt the Ahlul-Bayt, since you cant love a person and then at the same time love someone who hurt that person.
For more details, regarding historical narrations and a deeper understanding of why shias can not love some companions as much they love the other companions, you will need to read a lot of different articles. A good starting point would be ‘Then I was guided’ http://www.al-islam.org/guided/
Although i do think that book is slightly biased at points and at some points, it is not actually a ‘beginner’ book. But you can get an idea about the shia & companions’ issue. Another book by the same author would be ‘Shia are real ahlul sunnah’http://www.al-islam.org/Real/. You can read various articles on answering-ansar.com
4- And of course Mutaa’ marriages (pleasure based marriages that are temporary and require no witnesses or legal papers). And I would like to note here that I was shocked to learn that this was also ok in Sunni Islam until very late in the Prophet Muhamed’s lifetime (PBUH).
Ok, another information-dose for you
by the way, talking about pleasure, do you know that in the contract for mutah, the woman can actually place a restriction that sexual intercourse will NOT take place!. this is a misconception that mutah is a temporary sex pleasure related exercise. its a proper marriage just like nikah.
a- if mutah is a ‘pleasure based marriage’, what is Nikah (permanent marriage…the common type of marriage)? I do not know a single guy who ever married for reasons which did not involve pleasure
b- mutah is NOT always temporary. It can be permanent for an indefinite period just like nikah. And just like in nikah, the husband can divorce after 1 year, 2 year or whatever, or continue to live happily married ever after.
c- Mutah DOES require witnesses. Two witnesses, just as in the case of Nikah.
d- legal papers are a country’s requirement, not a religious requirement, niether for nikah, nor mutah.
e- what is the procedure of mutah? Similar to nikah, the gurl MUST obtain permission from her father, proper ‘sigah’ (dialogues) must be read (just as in the case of nikah), in the witness of TWO male witnesses, the bride and groom MUST consent verbally (just as in nikah) and haq-mehar (just as in Nikah). The procedure, as per Grand Ayatollah Seestani, whom a major portion of Shias follow to obtain religious verdicts (fatwas/edicts) related to mutah can be found on his website: http://www.sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=2&bid=59
f- what then is the difference between the mutah and nikah? Comparing mutah to a sunni form of nikah, there is no difference in form, just a difference in substance. Comapring mutah to a shia nikah, there is a difference in form and substance both. The difference lies not in the marriage itself, but the ‘ending’ of the marriage. In nikah, three divorce (talaaq) have to be given. But as per sunni fiqh, all three can be given at once, and when a man says three times that he is divorcing his wife, the divorce is valid. SImilarly, in a mutah, a husband can say ‘ i grant you the remaining period of mutah and release you from my marriage’ effectively saying that he is divorcing her and thus the divorce occurs. Saying three times at once in nikah or saying once in mutah is just a difference in form. effectively, both have the same result. However, in a shia marriage, the three divorces of nikah can not be given at once. You have to wait for a period of one month before you give the 2nd, and then again a month before you give the third. So from a shia form of nikah, mutah differs as in you dont have to wait 2 months to end a marriage, you can end it on spot, just like in case of sunni nikah. Another difference is (or similarity), lets say, in case of a sunni nikah, a couple gets married, and 2 years later decide they do not want to live together and get divorced. Similarly, in a mutah, a couple can fix this time limit at the beginning. lets suppose they say let get married for two years, if it works, we will extend it. So they get married, legally, with father’s permission, witness, proper dialogues and consent and all legal work, and then after 2 years they divorce after finding out they cant live together. they can divorce before the end of 2 yr period also. So this is very similar to the sunni nikah. effectively, in both cases the couple lived together for two years, had intercourse, enjoyed and had pleasure, but at the end, couldnt live together and divorced. the only difference is, in one type they did not mention that a divorce may happen after 2 years and in the other they were open to the possibility that a divorce may happen after 2 year. because in case of later, the mutah, they could expand it to beyond 2 years by simply performing a nikah (permanent one or a temporary one for an indefinite period).
g- it was not only allowed TILL the end of Prophet’s life but also AFTER it. This practice was abolished during the time of the 2nd Caliph Hazrat Omer while even after Hazrat Omer, some companions continued this practice. A detailed history, more clarifications available in ‘A detailed guide to Mutah’ at http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/mutah/en/index.php
But my family could not help but think that it was rude and that she might have done something to our food when we were over at their house. Again this might have nothing to do with religion or she might have thought that we meant to harm her as part of our Sunni practices.
hahaha…lolz..i doubt that she would have ‘done somthing your food’
What would she do? slow poison? lolz, you are still alive i suppose, so that didnt happen atleast…. 
Again, like i said, its personal practice vs religion. It was her choice, and I agree it was rude. But this is not the general practice. We eat among sunnis, no problem. And setting aside the ‘practice’, nowhere in the religion you will find anything prohibiting us eating at a fellow muslim’s home, whichever sect of islam they belong to. The only exception is when you are certain that the food is Najis or un-pure or that the meat used is not Halaal. I am sure in all practicing muslims’ homes, nobody eats najis or non-halaal food…so really this is not an issue.
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Bahraini Arabic accent and the fact that they are generally more serious and hard-working than my Najdi and Hijazi students. They rarely have the spoiled materialistic air about them that the others do.
Agreed, been living in the Saudi Arabia since sometime and I cant help but notice the difference in attitude between those from Qatif/Haassa and elsewhere in saudi.
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I predict that sectarian differences will remain for awhile and some warfare will be based on it, as is the case in Iraq. But eventually Arab Muslims will see the pointlessness of their squabbles and inequities. They’ll learn to be more religiously introspective rather than the current state of self-righteousness and fixation on correcting everybody else’s beliefs.
Amen sister..i truly wish that to happen. Our strength lies in our unity, not in declaring each other as infidels and creating differences. Plus, there is a strong need for differentiating and seggregating the practices of the people from the religon itself. Many of the practices/traditions have, over time, become part of religion BUT THEY ARE NOT. This is a fact which many people fail to grasp among the shias, and the fact that this is causing a distortion in other people’s view of us as a shia and causing promotion of rumors and differences.
I totally agree with Reeshiez’s comments:
As for Shi3a saying bad things about Abu Baker, Omar and Othman, radiya allah anhum, well I admit there are some shi3a that do this horrible thing but I and my family disagree with this and so do everyone I know in Bahrain. But you have to remember that sunnis have done the same thing too. During Yazid and Muawiya’s time, it was mandated to curse Ali bin Abi Talib during the friday sermon. This continued until the time of Umar bin Abdul Aziz who banned this practice. By the way most shia scholars ban the cursing of the sahaba. They do not ban criticizing them however. After all, they are only human and we cannot put them at the level of the prophet. To get a better understanding of our history, it is important to look at the role the major players had critically.
Besides, all the criticsm/cursing would be based on historical facts. And a lot of us still argue which history is ‘correct’. If the historical narrations would turn out to be incorrect on the Day of Judgement, what will happen to those who cursed these companions unjustly? Unless ofcourse, you really trust your historical accounts and can thus justify it to be true. For e.g. in case of Yazid, majority sunni and shias both, beleive that he was of an immoral character. Will cursing him be allowed in this case?
Cursing: Clarification on ‘cursing’ is needed too. Cursing does not imply use of abusive words and humiliating someone. In its true sense, and as used by Quran as well, the word ‘la’anat’ or curse just simply means the opposite of ‘rehmat’ Like you pray to God to bless so and so. Similarly, you would ask God, do not bless so and so (for e.g. Yazid) based on his zulm. For God Himself says in
Quran:
7:44 The curse of Allah is on the wrong-doers.
So even if you dont curse them, its not as if the wrong-doers are not already cursed by Allah.
I appreciate the clear and simple way in which you have replied to the observations placed on shias.
As far as I know the most basic definition of Islam is believe in Allah (and his oneness) and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the last prophet.
If all Muslims believe in it then how can you have divisions in Islam? Who cares who came after Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)??? Wasn’t the whole idea of having the last prophet to avoid such divisions? Am I the only one who sees it that way?
I was born a Shia Muslim and in my mid-late 20s spent a lot of time as a Sunni Muslims. Having spent time with both these sects and based on my above definition of Islam, I think they are both wrong. They both say bad things about each other. They both accuse each other of bid’ah and the other of being Kafir (or close to that.)
I could go on…. but I think I’ll leave it at this.
Assalam alaykum.
Interesting post, saudiwoman. There is much misrepresentation of the Shia Muslims. In-fact, I would call it nothing less than brainwashing. Some Sunnis are programmed to scream repeatedly “bidah! shirk! kuffar” when they hear the word “Shia”.
I’m a convert to Shia Islam myself. Perhaps this will educate you on the differences between Sunni Islam and Shia Islam: What is the main difference between them? The Sunnis believe the Prophet did not choose a leader to succeed him, and just left the matter haphazardly to the Ummah. The Shias believe that just like Allah chooses the Prophet, so Allah chose the successors of the Prophet. There are 12 successors, the first of whom is Ali ibn Abu Talib. The rest of the differences are a result of this main difference, for Shias take their jurisprudence, beliefs, and practices from these 12 leaders, whereas Sunnis take their jurisprudence, beliefs, and practices from any great scholar.
Peace.
Salaam. When I started reading this, an article from a woman who “taught hundreds of students of both sects”, I though the last thing I would read would be the usual misconceptions. And funny enough I did read some of those. Anyway, I think both shias and sunnis would call themselves “orthodox” Islam, but from a western documented viewpoint it is usually the shia that is termed as the “orthodox” Islam. But this is absolutely not something that we as muslims should argue about.
Like some of the people here already mentioned that they did not previously know about the taqeeh, I myself only recently found out about this. But from what I have found out this is only something for survival. There was a time, in my life, that had we said we were shia not only I would not have been living to this time but whole of my family would have been shot dead on the spot or sent to jails that no one knew whether they existed or not. God, for instance, allows us to eat pork(something that is regarded as haram) just so that we can live. This mercy of God can also be a weapon for an ignorant to call Muslims as pork eaters, but fortunately we are fortunate enough to escape it.
And about Muharam! Well it is (for shia) a month to go and participate and listen to sermons (not just about stories of Karbala) but more the lessons learned from this sad incident and a reminder for religious duties, mourn, pay zakat and donations to the poor, donate money for the betterment of the mosque and its service, reflect on one’s past actions, refrain from listening to music and wedding etc, and pretty much restraining from all bad things just like the month of Ramadhan, except eating and drinking of course. Now why should a practicing muslim be disadvantaged from such wonderful and blissful month?
I am not against sunnis at all. But what I really do not understand is when(some)sunnis call shias kafer. I think people should be more concerned on issues that are affecting muslims in the real world. For example(Although I only heard this from a muslim brother who had been living in Saudi for 5 years), apparently in Saudi Arabia a non national muslim would get deported out of the country if caught three times for not leaving work and attending Jama’a prayer 5 times every day??
Wasalaam.
i m living in tribal area of kurram agency and personely witnessed so many bad times.i remember we had no shia sunni conflict in pakistan but with the emergence of saudi dominance in the area , every thing was shatterd. in pakistan suiside attacks have become order of the day and each time you will see the person behind attack is not other but wahabi sect talib.they do not care about huminity.they want to establish its own hard style islam.each day they kill dozenof innocent people in the street of peshawar. this is the only sect which believe in terror other wise all shia and sunni are tolerant enough. if you realy want to study terrorism you must start from wahabism.
It seems as though your part of the new-breed of modernist whose idealogical masters are the West. Shia Islam is a oxymoron, its like an Atheist proclaiming belief in God while at the same time professing evolution, its a huge contradiction, one which is mind-bogglingly confusing.
Imamate, infallibility, tomb circumbulatings, Ashura beatings, muta, cursing companions, exhalting the stature of man (like the Christians have done with Jesus) have nothing to do with Islam. Your better of writing an article about Abdhulahi Bin Saba, the Yemeni jew that was the founder of Shism.
All 4 schools of thought declares Shism as heretics, I will challenge you to a debate to proof this.
Naasirudin,
“It seems as though your part of the new-breed of modernist whose idealogical masters are the West.”
Lol typically paranoid. Anytime you hear something you don’t like, blame it on the West. Friendship and unity amongst sects are apparently Western ideas in your thinking and should be rejected.
“Shia Islam is a oxymoron, its like an Atheist proclaiming belief in God while at the same time professing evolution, its a huge contradiction, one which is mind-bogglingly confusing.” How is Shia Islam an oxymoron? Shias are Muslims because they believe in Allah, His messengers and Prophets, the Quran, and so on.
“Imamate” Yes Shia Muslims believe in Imams. So do Sunnis. “infallibility” Sunnis also believe in the infallibility of the Prophet. “tomb circumbulatings” this is just nonsense. Shias don’t circumbulate graves. They visit the shrines of their Imams, just Sunnis visit the shrine of Salah al-din or the Prophet. “Ashura beatings” Yes, we symbolically beat our chests in mourning for the tragic killing of Hussain. Is there a problem with this? No.
“muta” This was also haram in Sunni Islam, except Sunnis claim it was later abrogated. Shias claim it was never abrogated by the Prophet, but by Umar. Some Sunni sources agree:
Umar said: Two types of Mut’a were (legal) during the time of the Prophet and I forbid them both, and I punish those who commit it. They are: Mut’a of pilgrimage and Mut’a of women.
Tafsir al-Kabir, by al-Fakhr al-Razi, v3, p201 under verse 4:24 -
Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, p52
“cursing companions” It is haram to curse the companions in Shia Islam. It is true that Shia Muslims do la’anat (incorrectly translated as curse) which is dua asking for the withdrawing of God’s Mercy, on certain people, such as Yazeed the killer of Hussain. We don’t do lanat on all companions. Only on those few who left the deen of Islam after the Prophet’s death.
“exhalting the stature of man (like the Christians have done with Jesus)” Christians have claimed a man is god. Shia Muslims have not done this. Therefore your analogy is false.
“Abdhulahi Bin Saba, the Yemeni jew that was the founder of Shism.” Ibn Saba was a man who worshipped Ali, and so Ali ordered him to be killed. He did not start Shia Islam since he died in Ali’s lifetime and he worshipped Ali, whereas the Shias in that time followed Ali, not Ibn Saba, (Ali was alive, so why follow Ibn Saba?), and they don’t share the same beliefs as Ibn Saba (for example, they worship only Allah). After Ali’s death, they followed Hasan, then Hussain.
“All 4 schools of thought declares Shism as heretics, I will challenge you to a debate to proof this.” No, they don’t. Infact Abu Hanifa and Malik studied under Jafar as-Sadiq. Two of madhab founders studied under Jafar as-Sadiq. Three, indirectly, because Shafi’i studied Malik who studied under Jafar as-Sadiq.
Please leave your hatred, ill-informed nonsense, and brainwashing aside, before you write a comment.
Salam.
salam,
i totally agree with ali reza comments..
the way u have given details for each n every point n the logical thinking of a human u have kept in mind n answer i guess if the person read u r comments he will have no wrong idea about shia
n doubts…shia always belive in having patients….
A short msg to evry muslim brothers & sisters first
lets us become true muslim by followin islam
After reading all the comments on this website, it is clear that the sectarian question {shia/sunni}is no more than a Wahhabi paranoia as far as shias are concerned.While I personally have no desire to enter into this rather sterile debate, I know from mostly sunni friends who have worked and lived in KSA that SAudis have this obsessive phobiaabout shias- which is based on propping up imaginary stories about shia beliefs and customs.The tragedy for the muslim world is that these hateful preachings through literally thousands of Saudi funded seminaries across the world are creating feelings of intense hatred and violence which is tearing Islamic society apart.Saudi muslims must pause and think how their attitudes are causing immense damage to the people of Islam.
I confess that living in Pakistan I could not imagine that students automatically seperating themselves in class based on the sectarian divide and people not eating in each others house. This is absurd and stupid.Although sectarian tensions sometimes flare up in Pakistan, the VAST VAST majority of people live in peace and harmony.When I was in school in the late 60s nobody in class knew or asked about sectarian identities. Indeed it was considered impolite and rather uncouth to do so.Maybe, muslims living in the Arab world should perhaps emulate the example of the creation of Pakistan- its revered leader and founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah created this state where over 80%of the population was Sunni- while he was a shia.Everyone loved and revered him- and continue to do so.
Assalamou Alaykoum,
I am a Sunni from Algeria and I hapenned to browse to your blog after a search on Shias in Saudi Arabia. I started being interested in this subject after the events in Iraq and the Shia-Sunni fights. I have been doing some readings and browsing both Sunni and Shiite forums.
I agree with you that both sects need to qui quaralling with each other. However, if you really look deep into it, it’s is nigh impossible for the two sects to reconcile. The reason is pretty simple: The Shia belief of cursing Sunni symbols (i.e. Sahaba and the Wives of the Prophet). Also, Shias accuse Sunnis of doing “Takfeer” on them but I find this highly hypocritical since one of the Shia’s main beliefs is to accuse Sunnis of being Nawasib (i.e. enemies of the Family of the Prophet (PBUH) and their books are rife with “takfeer” on Sunnis.
I hope our Shia friends here will not take this as offensive to them. This is the gist of what I got from browsing their own forums – full of insults on the companions, accusing the wives of the prophet of being prostitutes and plenty of takfeer on the Sunnis by calling them Wahhabis and Nawasib.
Dear brother Athmane
I am a shia, and no I did not take offense, and I m sure, other brothers will not either… However, let me please clear a few things:
1- Shias do not beleive in cursing “Sunni” symbols. Sahaba (the companions, may Allah bless them), and the Ummahat-ul-Momineen, are not just Sunni symbols, they are Muslim symbols and all are as respectable to Shias as they are to Sunni. However, there are narrations in Shia and Sunni books both which shed light over some acts of certain (only ‘certain’, not ALL) sahaba or wife, which constitute acts of agression against the Aal-e-Rasool (as). Ahlu-Sunnah, those who bother to read and accept these narrations, term these acts as a mere ‘mistake’ or ‘error in judgement(ijtihaad)’ and qoute ‘All Sahabas are like stars’ and other similar hadith and refuse to accept the Shia point of view that Allah curses all Zaalimeen (it is in verses of Quran that Allah curses the Zaalimeen). Shias maintain that the mere fact of bieng a companion or wife does not merit an exception from the curse of Allah. The Companion of Moses turned away and worshipped the animal while he was still alive, and had only gone away for a few days. The wife of Noah died in the flood, even his son. Relations are nothing if Taqwa is not there. That is the reason that Shias (and not ALL shias, only some) may curse ‘certain’ sahaba, based on narrations which prove them to be agressors. However, most of the shias (and all Muslims, even the Sunnah) curse all Zaalimeen. In any case, cursing certain people is not part of Shia faith, its more of a practice of people. I dont see this as a reason due to which reconciliation and unity among shia/sunni sect may not be possible.
2- Regarding Fatwa of Takfeer on Sunnah, let me assure you its not true. If you have read enough about shias, you know that shias’ fatwa giving authority is a Marja’ or Ayatollah. Currently, the most famous and most followed Ayatollah are Seestani and Khamnai. I will qoute Seestani since I follow him, and you can check on his website too, regarding the fatwa of Takfeer. It says:
An infidel is a person who does not believe in Allah and His Oneness. Similarly, Ghulat who believe in any of the Imams as God, or that they are incarnations of God, and Khawarij and Nawasib who express enmity towards the Prophet or Imams. And similar is the case of those who deny Prophethood, or any of the necessary laws of Islam, like, namaz and fasting, which are believed by the Muslims as a part of Islam, and which they also know as such.
I dont know a SINGLE mainstream Sunni muslim who comes under the above definitions. None of the mainstream Sunnis I know are enemies of the Prophet or his Aal (the Shia Imam). I have found all of them to be quite respectful of the Imams, even though they do not beleive in thier Imamate in the sense that Shias do. Nevertheless, they have no reason for enmity. However, there are some people, belonging to a certain sect, who call themselves part of the Sunni sect, but in effect, none of thier laws are part of the contemporary Sunni religion. Of this particular sect, some people, not ALL of this sect, actually do hate the Imams. However, not all of these haters actually display thier hatred, even if it is in thier hearts. Acc. to Sistani, these few people, who hate the Imams, beleive them to be enemies, and OPENLY DISPLAY thier enmity (e.g. by cursing the Imams, the Aal-e-Nabi) are called Nasibis and are kafir. In my whole life, I have never come accross such a person.
The discussion websites you have read wrongly use the word Nasibi for a whole sect of Islam, namely the Wahabi. I have two Wahabi friends who are quite respectful of all my faith principles, including the Imams and have nothing against them. I wouldnt even dare call them Nasibi. Unfortunately, these websites are portraying an incorrect picture which is contrary to the Shia faith.
It is high time that we separate the practices of people from the faith. Faith is what is as per Quran and Sunnah. Practices of people can differ and can never be termed a part of faith unless they are in line with Quran and Sunnah. If tomorow i see a few sunnis drinking wine, and i make a general statement “sunnis drink wine”, would it be correct? Then why, on the basis of some shia zealots certain tasks, should we lable that ‘all shias do this act’? I personally know shia people who are quite uncormfortable cursing the companions, and i myself dont do it..cause its all based on historical narrations which may in Qayamah turn out to be false, why take the risk…? I have Wahabi friends, never called them Kaafir, and even the Mujtahi/Marja’/Ayatollah does not label them as Kaafir. Please talk to informed Shias, their Aalims, or people among shias who understand better, instead of just reading websites and forming opinions about the whole shia faith in general.
Wassalam!
Assalamou Alaykoum,
Thank you for your answer Ali.
1- The Sunnis do not consider the Sahabas to be infallible so I agree with you that they made mistakes in their lives and these are present in the Sunni Sahihs (like Boukhari, Muslim etc). We also consider on the other hand the Ahlu Al Bayt (May Allah be pleased with them) are not infallible and make mistakes in their lives. However, the practice of cursing and insulting the Sahabas along with the Wives of the Prophet (PBUH), I find hard to reconcile that with any form of “coexistence” between the two sects let alone any unity.
2- I understand from the context that you are referring to the “Wahhabis” – which is in fact the most austere form of Sunnism, just like the Salafis and they are present all over the world not only in Saudi Arabia. Let me tell you something: I have NEVER seen Wahhabis or Salafis hate the Ahlu Al Bayt (May God be pleased with them) and this is a contradiction since in the prayer we salute the Ahlu Al Bayt before the Sahabas (Allahouma Salli wa Sallim aala Sayyidina Mohammadin wa aala Alihi Wa Sahbihi Ajma3in). Rather, they show enmity to Shias for the reasons mentionned above (cursing the Sahabas and the Wives of the Prophet) and they do not consider Shias to be following the path of Ahlu Al Bayt but rather against it.
3- I am talking about mainstream Shia forums – the most active on the Internet in both English and Arabic – and this is where I can form my own opinions which I consider to be objective. I honestly do understand the Shia followers’ grievances but I find it odd that on one hand you curse and insult the Sahabas and the Wives of the Prophet (PBUH) and you expect the Wahhabis or Sunnis to turn the other cheek.
I have also read the important books in the Shia sect and there is CLEARLY Takfeer on the Nawasib who are in fact nothing but Sunnis themselves. It’s fair enough to brandish the “Takfeeri” tag on others, be courageous enough to admit that Takfeer forms a cornerstone of your most regarded books. I can reference many ahadith from the Imams in your books who clearly label the “A’ama” as Nawasib and Kuffar. Do we take the word of Sistani or the word of the Infallible Immam?
I suppose I failed to get my point accross brother! Since you repeated all your comment again!
Let me try once more in simpler words:
1- Practices dont make a religion. If tomorow, ALL shias start doing some particular task, you can not say its part of the Shia faith. So accusing the Shia faith based on the practices of people (which may or may not be line with Islamic principles) is unjust.
2- Regd your point 1, yes, Shia do believe in infallibility of the Ahlul Bayt, specifically the 12 imams and the daughter of prophet, not the complete household. But this is another debate for which this blog is not an appropiate forum I suppose.
Regarding cursing, like I said before, Allah himself has cursed the Zaalimeen. If a Shia believes on the basis of certain narration that some sahabis were infact involved in acts of Zulm against the ahlul bayt, for e.g. Yazid, cursing them is totally in line with Quranic principle of cursing the Zaalimeen. The debate is therefore NOT on cursing, but on the character of those certain Sahaba and wife. In any case, not ALL shias curse by taking names of Sahaba or wife. Allah says in Quran, ‘do not insult the false Gods of the non-beleivers, for they will then insult your true God’. As per Shia faith, it is strongly beleived that insulting someone who a particular sect holds in high respect is not a good thing to do, the Shia top authority like Imam Khumeni, Khaamnai etc all have been presenting the concept of Ittehad-bain-ul-Muslimeen, Unity among Muslims. When you want to study the Shia faith, read the top of the line shia books and study the top Shia aalims. Do not study books written by ignorants who hate all sects or such biased anti-wahabi websites where a lot of people, based on thier ignorance, just vent out thier feelings.
3- My dear brother, if you see the second last para of my earlier post, I have mentioned the same thing. I do not believe Wahabis to be synonymous to Nasibis. Nasibis are someone who expressly hate the AhlulBayt and no Muslim who prays five times a day can be like this, because they all send Salwat to Mohammad and Aal-e-Mohammad (saw). So I am disputing you, I totally agree with you there. I don’t see the point you are trying to make here.
However, showing enmity towards Shias is not the right thing to do either. Islam teaches tolerance. Surah Kaafiron: To you, your faith, and unto me, my faith. There is no compulsion in Islam. If you beleive Shias do something wrong, they will be answerable to God for thier own acts. This does not give other sects licence to hate them or to kill them. Islam was spread due to the superb character of our prophet (saw) not on the basis of the point of his sword. All wars fought in his life were DEFENSIVE, not AGGressive. The Prophet who did not show hate or agression even towards the Kuffar of Makkah, even towards the woman who threw garbage on him, how can the people who claim to follow his SUnnah ever hate or be agresive against people who are not even kaafir but profess the one-ness of Allah and love his Prophet (saw)?? Its time we should finish the hate, reconcile differences through dialogues and embrace each other and create Islamic unity.
4- I have already told you that there IS a fatwa of takfeer on the Nasibi. But you fail to understand the definition of a Nasibi. A Nasibi is one who OPENLY shows and professes his HATe towards Ahlul Bayt. No Sunni or wahabi etc do this. So the fatwa of takfeer does not apply to them. Please remove the misconception. Which Shia books have you read? Where does it say that any Imam called the Ahlul-Sunnah a kaafir? Seestani and all other ayatollahs form all their opinions on the basis of quran and hadith of Prophet and Imams. A fatwa of Seestani wont go against the Hadith of Imam, so I find it hard to beleive you there. And no, the fatwa of takfeer or hatred among sects does NOT form part of cornerstone of Shia faith. Its unfortunate that you have read the wrong websites and books and maybe met the wrong people who have not correctly portrayed the Shia religion. I am saddened at these so-called shia websites which spread so much hate.
Also, please do not give me references of Usul Al Kafi or Man La YahZarul Faqih. If you read Usul Al Kafi, the writer, Kulaini, has given a disclaimer that he merely brought together all hadith without checking references or its authenticity and it is the work of the user of hadith to use the Ilm-e-Rijaal and find whether the hadith is true or not. Both the books have a lot of hadith which are incorrect, non-authentic and some are contradictory to the other. When the people become Mujtahid or Aalim, they study ilm-e-rijaal in detail and they study these books and make use of only the most authentic hadith. We do not call these books SAHIH books like the Bukhari or Muslim.
Anyways, I am open for debate on any topic but this is not the correct forum. Right now i just want to insist to separate practices of people from the shia faith and preach love and unity instead of points of divison and hatred.
Wassalam brother!
Worship means the performance of deeds and sayings that please God, things which He commanded or encouraged to be performed, either by direct textual proof or by analogy. Thus, worship is not restricted to the implementation of the five pillars of Islam, but also includes every aspect of life. Providing food for one’s family, and saying something pleasant to cheer a person up are also considered acts of worship, if such is done with the intention of pleasing God. This means that, to be accepted, all acts of worship must be carried out sincerely for the Sake of God alone.
I am from Pakistan and I am a muslime.I just want to tell something to the islamic world.Shias are reality and constituent about 20% of islamic population.They have been discriminated for last 1400 years,nobody from other sect want to know the literature of shias,all Sunnis rely on the rumors or the literature just publishes by their own sects principle people.From the childhood Sunnis are being taught that Shias are Mushrik,they are black sheeps in islam and so many other things.Thus this hate feelings developes and a Sunni muslim remain anti shia for his whole life time.
I just request you to read shia literature,why they offer salat like this,why they don’t follow the some of the companions of Prophet(PBUH),why they follow Ahlubait,why the mourn in Muharram.Their are many false literature that is being spread by Wahabis and Sunnis against shia,but my brother and sisters in Islam,why don’t you see the point of views of Shias against those issues?
Assalam alaikum wrwb,
Dear All,
I’m a revert sister. Since the beginning of my journey to and in Islam I’ve been surrounded by sunni muslims, I somehow never really got the chance to meet any shia. I don’t like to classify myself into any group, I like to call myself a muslim only. Have any of you heard the hadith which says, that there will be 70 something sects in Islam and among them only one will enter Jannah? I beleive it is better not to label ourselves with anything which creates a division among the Ummah.
Dear Author, I found this article very interesting. JazakAllah for having the courage to raise and discuss this topic.
Dear All, I’ve carefully read all posts and even checked a few sites recommended in the posts.
I’m saddened to see all these divisions and hatred towards fellow muslim.
I’ve recently done Hajj and since then I’m especially interested in getting to know more about Shia Islam, since I’ve seen irani sisters wearing different things, praying in different way…etc. Muhammad Ali, you mentioned to check proper sources in order to learn more about Shia Islam. Is there such a book or website which you could recommend?
JazakAllah
Assalam alaikum
Salaams sister
I am a Shia Muslim and in the past seven years that I have been active in my objective of creating inter-sect unity by dialogues and discussions, I have not come accross any book which does not have either of the following two characterstics:
1- Biased towards a sect, either shia or sunni or presenting the concepts and faiths in a defensive sort of a way with arguments against any contrary practices or beliefs
2- Faith mingled with practices and traditions. Each area’s people have thier own traditions, culture and practices which have gradually begin to be identified as part of Shia faith… which I think is very wrong.
I have not yet found an ideal book or website which would explain the Shia faith and principles to a newly convert Muslim.
You might go for ‘Then I was guided” by Dr. Tejani Samawi. (http://www.al-islam.org/guided/) He was an Ahlul Sunnah scholar who converted to Shi’ism during his journey to Iraq. The book, although has gained much fame among shias, but even i could poke a couple of hundred holes in the book, at some place, this book also makes the mistake of treating people’s practices as part of shia faith.
Al-islam.org’s library is a very good resource to read about shi’ism and shia faith. But again, its not like a ‘begginer course’.
Anyways, I am always available by mail, f.zehra.ali@gmail.com. If you want to learn something, or to ask something or to clarify something you read online or in a book, do drop me a message and I will respond as promptly as I can…
Happy to help
Cheeers!
May Allah bless you!
Thank you: Ali Raza, Ali, Sadiq, JafarAThinker, hasan javad, Abulhasan, Kashif, hashim, Reeshiez, Hala, BCIS
For you have soothed my heart and made me once again very certain of my believe and that I am on the straight path. I’m making dua for you at this very moment that Allah (s.w.t.) bless you all with even more knowledge and wisdom. May all of you bring even more human beings towards the path of Allah; Amen!
Oh! I think I forgot Muhammed Ali! I also want to thank you and you are also included in my prayer.
salam,
you are welcome may god shower his blessing upon all our muslim brothers n sisters ameen
Ali,
I will not drag this any longer. I just find it hypocritical on your part to be accusing the Wahhabis (whatever the dubious meaning of the word, i.e. referring to Sunnis) of Takfeer while your major scholars, marji’a and your considered books are rife with Takfeer on Sunnis and other non-Twelver Shiite sects (Zaidis, Ismailiya etc)
Unless you are willing to do your very own self-criticism, then it’s pretty futile to criticise others. Takfeer is a trend well ingrained in all Islamic sects, this is what I am alluding to. There is Takfeer in your sect – your considered books, your scholars, the Marj’a – so stop brandishing this Takfeeri tag as a leitmotiv.
As Salaam Alaykom:
I reverted to Islam about 3 years ago and have been educated to be Sunni. A few months ago, I met a young woman who had just reverted to Islam herself and took her to my Masjid. (In America, women can attend Masjid), but she felt that they were too mean to me. Later she met a Shia man, and they have been married.
Her and I are very good friends and they both call me Auntie.
So, in these months, I have learned much about both sects, and one thing sticks in my mind. The Sunni tell outrageous lies about the Shia. They say that the Shia have sex with children, and do all sorts of evil things.
One thing that I have understood about Islamic culture is that it is rife with backbiters, so much so that I don’t talk to Muslims anymore unless they show themselves to be obeyers of Allah SWT.
The Shia spend far too much time rehearsing all the wrongs done to them, and I am told that it still goes on today.
This makes me very sad, but what am I to do.
Ma Salaama
Khadijah
Salaams dear sister!
So good to hear about you… May Allah bless you more and more…!
By the way, its not just America, at a lot of places women can attend the Masjid. I come from Khi, Pakistan, and we had a huge shia mosque in our area where we used to pray jam’aat namaz. And I have seen women in Masjid-e-Haraam and Masjid-e-Nabavi in Makkah and Madinah, women are allowed to attend ofcourse.
Regarding Sunnis telling lies about Shias, not all of them do this. Its more in cultures which are more restrictive. In Pakistan, esp. in Khi, you won’t hear a lot of these rumours since the Shias/Sunnis mingle with each other, they all know about each other, and they are literate enough to not believe all the crap they are told. In cultures which are more restrictive, even in some cities in Pakistan and places other than the Eastern province in Saudi Arabia (where there are considerable Shias, and they are pretty much respected by mostly everyone who knows them) where inter-faith dialogues are restricted, people are not allowed to know about other sects and mingle with them, things are obviously worse. Many such rumours are thus present. The best way is to meet a good practicing Shia Muslim, see his/her way of living, see the the Shia clerics of high repute such as the Mujtahid (Shiekhs or Mara’ajay or Mufti whatever you wish to call them) and see how they live. I once read an article on status of women in Islam and the treatment of all the famous well known Mara’ajay of previous years with their wives/daughters/sisters and the comments of thier wives/daughters. I was so truly amazed at the respect they gave, the care they took and the love they showered on their women. Read about the Shia imams and how they interacted with people. Islam was spread by the character of Prophet(saw), you want to learn Shi’ism, learn through the character of Prophet, the Shia Imams and thier true followers.
Regarding back-biting, seriously you are SOOOO true…!!! But I suppose that varies from place to place rather than a ‘Muslim culture’. Its unfortunate that Muslims and especially ladies like me have fallen to this trap of Satan. However, I have noted that an increasing number of speakers/scholars, esp. in Khi, have been speaking about it now since a couple of years with more focus and force and trying to bring a positive change by teaching us not to do back-biting or rather ‘gossiping’ as it is more commonly known here.
Regarding Shias ‘rehearsing’ the past, I don’t exactly know what you are referring to. Do you mean ‘keep repeating/telling everyone’ what happened to them in the past?
“and I am told that it still goes on today.”
Don’t go on what people say.
Will leave you with a narration of the grandson of Prophet (May Allah bless him), Hassan (May Allah bless him) [who is also the 2nd Imam of Shias], and he said: “There is a difference of only four fingers between ‘haq’ (right) and ‘baatil’ (wrong)” People asked him to explain and he kept his four fingers between his eye and ear and said “What you see from your eyes is haq and what you hear from your ears is baatil”.
As to what you can do, well, one person can not change the world…but can try atleast. You can learn, increase your own knowledge and work towards inter-faith unity and decreasing differences through dialogue with them and clearing up rumours.
Love to all, peace for all…. unity among Muslims…
salam,
to all i want to berife aboubt jihad true meaning as everyone knows the current affaires
Jihad is one of the most misunderstood, and abused aspects of Islam. There are some Muslims who exploit and misuse this concept for their own political objectives. There are many non-Muslims who misunderstand it. There are some non-Muslims who misinterpret it to discredit Islam and Muslims.
What is Jihad?
The word Jihad does not mean “Holy War”. It means “struggle” or “striving”. The word for war in the Qur’an is “Harb” or “Qital”. Jihad means serious and sincere struggle on the personal as well as on the social level. It is a struggle to do good and to remove injustice, oppression and evil from the society. This struggle should be spiritual as well as social, economic and political. Jihad is to work hard to do right things. In the Qur’an this word is used in its different forms 33 times. It often comes with other Qur’anic concepts such as faith, repentance, righteous deeds and migration.
Jihad is to protect one’s faith and one’s human rights. Jihad is not a war always although it can take the form of war. Islam is the religion of peace, but it does not mean that Islam accepts oppression. Islam teaches that one should do one’s utmost to eliminate tension and conflict. Islam promotes non-violent means to bring change and reform. Actually, Islam urges that one should eliminate evil through peaceful means without the use of force as much as possible. In Islamic history from the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) until now, Muslims most of the time resisted oppression and struggled for liberation in non-violent and peaceful manners.
Islam teaches proper ethics in the situation of war also. The war is permissible in Islam, but only when other peaceful means such as dialogue, negotiations and treaties fail. It is a last resort and should be avoided as much as possible. Its purpose is not to convert people by force, or to colonize people or to acquire land or wealth or for self-glory. Its purpose is basically: defense of life, property, land, honor and freedom for oneself as well as defense of others from injustice and oppression.
The basic rules of war in Islam are:
1. Be strong so that your enemy fear you and should not attack you.
2. Do not begin the hostilities. Work for peace as much as possible.
3. Fight only those who fight, no collective punishment; non-combatants should not be harmed. Weapons of mass destruction should not be used.
4. Stop hostilities as soon as the other party is inclined to peace.
5. Observe the treaties and agreements as long as the enemy observes them.
Allah says very clearly: (Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not do aggression, for Allah loves not the aggressors.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 190)
(The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 194)
Jihad is not terrorism:
It is to be emphasized that terrorism against the innocent civilians, whether through aggression or suicidal means, is under no circumstances permissible in Islam. Islam encourages the oppressed people to struggle for their liberation and it commands other Muslims to help those who are oppressed and suffering, but Islam does not allow, under any circumstance, terrorism against non-combatants and innocent people. Terrorism is not Jihad, it is Fasad (mischief). It is against the teachings of Islam. There are some people who use their twisted arguments to justify terrorism for their causes, but it has no justification: Allah says: (When it is said to them: ‘Make not mischief on the earth,’ they say: ‘Why, we only want to correct things.’ Indeed they are the mischief doers, but they realize (it) not.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 11-12)
Islam wants to establish a world order where all human beings – Muslims and non-Muslims – can live with justice in peace, harmony and good will. It gives its followers full guidelines to find peace in their personal and social lives, but it also tells them how to extend the good will on the basis of human relations towards others. Muslims worked under these principles for centuries. People of many faiths lived with them and among them. Islamic societies were known for their tolerance, generosity and humanity.
In our modern society where we are living in a global village, where non-Muslims are living with Muslims in the Muslim countries and Muslims are living with non-Muslims in countries where non-Muslims constitute a majority, it is our duty to bring better understanding among ourselves, work for peace and justice for all people and cooperate with each other in matters of goodness and virtue in order to stop all terrorism, aggression and violence against the innocent people. This is our Jihad today
so lets concentrate on this instead of argueing about our own borthers n sisters(shia/sunni)
may god be with every one
His Highness
I Chief Organizer,Zawar Syed Mazhar Ali Shah Naqvi, of village, Nebahoo Bhoora Deh-10 Bhoora, Taluka Sakrand, Disrict Nawabshah,Sindh (Pakistan) as I have established Imam Bragah Safina, in the name of Mazhar-ul-Ajaib, at about 40 or 50 years ago in village Bhoora Deh-10, Bhoora and in the above locality there are only Two and Three houses which belongs to Assna Ashari Momineen and other who resides there belongs to the followers of Ahl-e-Sunnat Jammait. With my un-tiredable and entire efforts I have established Alam-Pak of Hazrat Ghazi Abbas Alamdar (A.S) in the premises of Imam Bargah and in the holy days of Moharram, I have made necessary arrangements to start Majils, Salam-o-Marsiya and Matam Majils accordingly. And on 9th Muharram Sharif, Sejj in the name of (Prince) Shahzada Ali Qasim (A.S) is being decorator, also arranged in shape of Juloose where all Momineen take part from religious point of view.
The entire me measurement of above plot, where above named Imam Bargah is situated approximately its total area is at about one and half-area.
I belongs to poor family of Syed but neither I have got any sources of Income nor any type of Aid or moral monetary support from any side or any sound monetary position-holders therefore I appeal to whole woks Assna Ashari Organizations kindly to help and give me monetary support, so that I may be able or in position to provide religious education on Assna Ashari basis to the poor children of this locality and also specialty in Taleem of Quran, so for this purpose Building consists on two or three rooms as Darisagah alongwith wash-room also suitable position for Mosque should be arrange which also be facilitated with Ghusil Khana(Bath-Room) etc.
In addition to this Imam Bargah and Takhatgah of Moulai Qainat Hazrat Ali (A.S) should be entirely decorated and furnished with Marble Tiles etc, in order to beautify the whole scene of Imam Bargah and Mosque alongwith religious Darsgah, so that it gives good-look to every visitor, and in this way all will be interested to take part to provide financial help/Aid or enhanced the hands of Co-operation to this religious whole-heartily.
Appealant
Chief Organizer
ZAWAR SYED MAZHAR ALI SHAH NAQVI
Village Nehbahoo Bhoors, Deh-10 Bhoora,Taluka Sakrand District Nawabshah,sindh (PAKISTAN)
How Sunnis are treated in Shi’ite IRAN: http://sunnairan.wordpress.com/
Shia Doctrine:
http://shiaexposed.blogspot.com/
What a lousy reference and what a pre-programmed mind you have Nabila. The sunnis, if they are your concern, were involved in running a seperatist movement based out of Pakistan and supplied and supported by the US and Pakistan both. Tell you what. Try an uprising in your own country and let us see how you are treated by the state.
islam truth
It is ordered by the Quran to gather “ILM” (knowledge). And a saying of the Prophet Mohammad: “The ink of a scholar is far more precious than the blood of a martyr.”
Therefore, I recommend that you all read the book on the following link by a person who has done immense research before he came to any conclusions on Shia and Sunni.
http://www.al-islam.org/guided/
hi there,
i loved your post, i like that u talked about a taboo topic, making both sides understand each other better. i am a shia married to a sunni, both form pakistan. the conflicts in my country are 100% flared by the politicians and the so called scholars trying to gain from them, making the ppl bz.i believe that there are extremes in every sect whether it being shia and sunni. our job as muslims is to a be MUSLIM first. i dont think Allah is gonna ask anything about being a shia or sunni on the day of jugdment so waste time on this. i didnt like the term SHIA ISLam used by some of the commenters. it didnt sound right as in there are two islmas rather then one supreme one.
just my opinions. i too am optimistic and hopeful like the author of the post about the muslims being united and stop fighting on petty matters
As-Salam Alekum
I am a Muslim from Bangladesh. This is the first time I came to your site….and I confess it was a really pleasing experience. Note that I said I am a Muslim from Bangladesh not shia or sunni. I can say this I was brought up in a Hanafi-sunni family though most of my childhood and teenage I spent in Wahhabi Saudi Arabia because of my parents occupation..both were Medical Doctors for the Ministry of Health of the Kingdom. Although I was brought up in a Sunni family and spent most of my lifetime in KSA, when I begin to understand faith an religion and all the sects,cults or groups, I decided to be neutral by heart when I research these different sects and their doctrine or practices or whatever. All I learnt right to this day, makes me identify my faith to be a Muslim and only Muslim…non-shia, non-sunni, non-whateversects…straight forward Muslim. But in my heart my beliefs may be a little to the sunni side if you consider the basic doctrines. Note my family-name is Syed, here in south asia it’s the way sayiid is spelt. My family line descends from Imam Al-Hussain and it is genuine as far as my research on my ancestors trace out, which makes me a direct descendent of Imam Ali (rh) & Fatimah(rh) a.k.a Ahl-AlBait..also Hashemite clan of the Quraish. So my Shia friends, I need to know as a verified descendant of Imam Hussain(rh) am I a member of Ahl-Al-Bait? Or am I not? Either-way the Shia doctrine dictates it very important to love and follow the Ahl-al-bait blindly. Now this is where I differ in my belief, if I am or am not a member of ahl-al-bait, I dont consider myself or the other descendants of Ali/Fatima privileged from other muslims. Also I dont think visiting the shrines of the great Imams of Shias and asking their ad-vocation to Allah for forgiveness of sins and Jannah makes any sense atall. Afterall they are all deceased person like every other deceased muslims. Of course I dont see anything wrong if someone visits their grave to pay respect for their good deeds and to pray to Allah for the peace of their souls. Now Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is different as he himself promised, he himself will advocate for his ummah at the judgment day for God’s forgiveness….and surely we can be hopeful for that and keep our Imaan and deeds as strong as possible. Now about the Khilafat after our Prophet’s passing away, I truly think it was unjust for Abu-Bakr(rh) and Umar(rh) to take part in the committee of electing the next leader of the ummah..while Ali and his sons were busy for the funeral preparation of the prophet. They knew that Muhammad(pbuh) gave clear indication…rather say, declared Ali as his choice for the position after him as the successor for the leadership of the Ummah in many instances recorded in many Sahih-Hadith collections. No judgment on how they ruled as khalifah..every of us know they were almost always rightful while making major decisions except for some instances. But I strongly express my disappointment for the conspiracy they did took part for sidelining Ali and cease the Khilafah, it was unjust and wrong. All the fitnah and all the disasters soon to be unfolded could have been avoided if Imam Ali (rh) was permitted to take his rightful place. But today the difference between these 2 major divisions(disregarding the subdivision) is so vast, it is realy a shame that some Islamic Clerics from both sect throw abuses and curses to each other. I will be ashamed to give my religious belief any label as “Shia” or “Sunni”. I am a “Non-Sunni” and a “Non-Shia” Muslim who by heart follows the religion that the last Messenger of Allah, Prophet Muhammad bin Abdullah (pbuh) preached, and try my best to follow the way of life he lived…Period. I’d like to add another thing…the wahabbi’s are extrimists, they dont have the right to dictate on what is the proper way to follow Islam…let us ourselves decide what we want to believe or what practice we want to follow. Shame to the wahabbis for destructing the early islamic sites which were the most important and priceless archeological sites representing our culture and heritage. They dont have any right to touch the sites which belong to all the muslims of the world…most of whom are thought to be ‘infidels’ by the wahhabis. I fear oneday they will destroy the tomb of our prophet and the magestic green dome over it…even i fear this, according to wahabbism any act that leads to the possibility of turning to idolatry or shirk is to be prohibitted, the Kaaba itself is nothing but a stone building, the wahabbis may consider that the Kaaba is possibly leading muslims to the prohibited act of worshiping stone buildings..so lets destroy the Kaaba itself and stop these idolatry….some of you may be laughing at what I am saying…but by the recent activities of the wahabbis, I am truly disturbed and disheartened. May Allah show us the right path and hope that the Ummah will be united once again..like it was at the time of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)
….Salam to all
Rezwanul Alam; the central position in Islam is that of our Holy Prophet (pbuh). He told us what to follow after his death. Pls see hadith e SAQALAIN and hadith e SAFINA in which he talks about taking guidance from Ahl ul Bayt and defines who they are. Both of these are accepted by Shia and Sunni schools of thought. If you have not come across them, I can provide the references. This is the reason why Shias take guidance from Ahl ul Bayt after the prophet.
A question arises that if instructions were so clear, why did nobody follow the Ahl ul Bayt. You can understand this by looking at how we (muslims) treat the Holy Quran. Its a book in our lives that is highly respected but hardly taken guidance from.
I posted on this discussion months ago, and have watched it develop. I am an American Convert to Islam, so I do not have the same perspective of “born” Muslims. I was also, a very devout Christian before I came to Islam. As a student of the faith, it distresses me that good people that I know on each side of the issue could hold such vehement views of the other.
For me, I am Muslimah.
Please allow me to add my perspective from the point of view of a woman who was raised Christian. It confuses me that the incidents surrounding the Blood Line/Election issue could produce a war that has lasted for most of the 1400 years that Islam has existed.
In Christianity, from a historical point of view, it is felt that after the time of Jesus, within just a few hundred hears various factions developed and one of them went around and slayed most of the others. From my point of view, evil men killed the true followers of Jesus. This later became the Roman Catholic Church, but only after the Eastern Orthodox split off and went their way. Hundreds of years later, Martin Luther rebelled and thus the reformation of Christianity began.
Hundreds of years later, Christian people know of the events, but it is of historical significance only and there is little emotion or hate associated with it.
To me, the continuing animosity one Muslim to another casts aspersions on the faith I have come to love so much.
Ma Salaama
Hala
you should be very stupid to have done this website with the girleyes. it´s a religious website. or am I wrong?
Shivan…its very unpolite to call someone stupid. And no, its not a religious website… its a blog by a saudi lady… and this is just one of the many other posts she has made on her blog.
The ‘girleyes’ banner is actually a pretty nice touch to represent a ‘Saudi lady’s blog’.
Get a life man!
You are not wrong. Your parents were. But then, who can turn back the time?
Shivan:
You are sexist pig, the very kind of man that we need protection from. When I wear the Niqab, it is because of my fear of Muslim men like you, not any western man or woman. Allah SWT knows your heart and if you were wise, you would tremble in fear of Allah SWT.
I am Mohamed Rida, a Sunnit Moroccan who lives in the Netherlands, the problem is that the corn believes of Shia are far a way from the true Islam.
When they think that imam is important then prophet and that the imam can reach the position where he does not have to pray of do the Ramadan.
They believe also that the holly Quran is not complete and their imam has the complete version. When they think that Gabriel has gave the message to the prophet Mohamed in place of Ali.
Heir as Muslim you have to look for what are the believes of Shia and what they say about the big love of the prophet Mohamed, Aisha, you will know soon that the question heir is not more then if the Shia are nice peoples or not, look what mean “al Tkiya” for the Shia and you will understand Their global picture.
well some one has given very wrong info about shia we belive in quran n prophet Mohammed is first for us & before u pt out about some religion plz go through them deeply & don speak wit out ny knowledge
i am fatima shia muslim
eid al-ghadeer mubarak.
If Sunnis are the ones following the Sunnah, then try following this to live up to your sect…
The Messenger of Allah said:
“Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrasy.”
^^^^^^^^^
Sunni references:
- Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;
- Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;
- Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128
- Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202
- Hilyatul Awliya’, by Abu Nu’aym, v4, p185
- Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462
Dear Author,
I would just like to make a few suggestions… towards the end of the article you express views of unifying muslims and ending what you refer to as ‘petty squabbles’. However you refer to Catholics and Shias as essentially non-orthodox which neither Catholics nor Shias would be at all happy with. Orthodoxy within Islam is not Sunni Islam but rather Islam in general.. There are both Sunni and Shia orthodox followers.
Also you talk as if they are ‘hiding’ their wounds which immediately brings the assumption that they themselves think they are wrong for self-flagellating out of grief.
You may not mean harm but the language and tone with which you have written your article are both insulting and derogatory to an extent. If i was a Shia Muslim i would be very hurt and would believe you had deeply misunderstood their faith.
Please do try and grasp all facts and be careful of language within these kinds of articles despite personal views. this is for the whole world to see and you have wronged your sisters and brothers.
Also i would love another article from you with more informed and less misguided views please as your general wish at the end is quite well-intended.
Thank you very much..
I started in Islam with the Wahhabbi Sunni but now attend a mixed Sunni/Shia Masjid. I think that people just need to get over it, stop fighting and attacking each other and worship Allah SWT as we were created to do.
Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab has revived Islam and purified the beliefs of many Sunni Muslims near to the beliefs of the first few generations of the Sahaba (Ridhwanullahi alaihim). He has purified the belief of Muslims from Shirk and grave worshipping and associating Allah with others. In Sunni Islam (call it wahabi if you want), we believe that intersession is only for Prophet Mohammed and not for any other human. The funny thing is that Shia and Sufi Sunni Muslims ask intersession to someone who is in a grave. This is no different from Quarish that you used to worship idols. Someone who is in a grave needs our help, not the visa versa.
So please do not insult pious Muslims in ignorance, especially Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. This Wahabi hate propaganda is spread by Jewish and American media such Fox News and the likes. Do not talk about Islam if you have no knowledge of Islam. If any one wants to learn about Shia, there are a lot of books written by Muslim scholars, you should read these books and do not make assumptions. But what I know is that some Shia sects are outside the fold of Islam.
Br Hassan:
To hate and criticise is the low road. To love Allah SWT only is the only true path. I am American convert to Islam and find it rather simple to practice what I believe without trying to tear others apart. Their walk with Allah SWT is theirs and each one of us will answer for what we believe. The beliefs of others do not affect my beliefs. Let each person find the true path. Hate and violence only cheapen us.
Ma Salaama
Hala
After reading this article and the whole thread I have come to the conclusion that religion is something that drives people apart instead of bringing them together, and for that reason it is like racism. I truly think the world would be better off if people didn’t define themselves by their religion, but instead defined themselves as human and left it at that. I always thought the whole Catholic / Protestant war was ridiculous, now I see that the Sunni / Shia conflict is ridiculous as well. If you look closely, you will see it is driven by economics and not religion, and has been used by the people in power to keep everyone separate so they can more easily control the population. A nation divided is easier to rule by an autocrat than a nation united. Religion certainly helps to divide people. Now to rise above that. I hope humanity can shed the shackles of religion and find real freedom.
Assalamun Alaikum
Dear muslim brothers and sisters and just hi to others
I am a muslim from Afghanistan. I have read most of the comments on the issue of unity between various sects of muslims on this blog. I would love to see all muslims to be united as one, however this simply cannot be achieved by throwing away our past as sunni or shia, it is this history that defines our tomorrow, it is our past which makes us better as human. The more you dig into your past the more knowledge you gain of handling your future. I want to share some past history of the people of Afghanistan which may shed some lights on this topic of unity. There currently is roughly about 20% shia population and the rest is sunnis in Afghanistan, and for the past 300 years it has been governed consecutively by the sunni rulers and that is also when it was formed. Since the formation of the state, the sunni rulers continuosly indiscriminated against the shia and based on some authantic accounts some 60% of shias have been massacred in mid 20th century. I grew up in the capital city Kabul, and based on my own personal encounter I find most sunnis ill-informed about shia creed and they make a lot of nasty comments about shia and sometimes allow the killing of shia, in case of Taliban of Afghanistan during their rule between 1994 and 2001.
I am not sure if my writings and especially panctuations make any sense and if it doesn’t please pardon me and my English.
Well, what I am trying to say is this we can not ignore how Islam came into existince, how this evolution took place, what happened during Mohammad’s (PBUH&AB) life time and after he was called upon to heaven(HIS death) it is all history but it is related to today’s dicussion and it will remain so for many generations to come. The reading and proper understanding of history brings people together not ignoring it. Today, hundreds of people get killed for this very ignorance. After all the atrocities, propaganda, killings of our shia, I wondered that the shia creed which I follow is the right one and I studied and fortunately I found it to be true and right path of Islam. Because Shia practices are the exact tradition of Mohammad(PBUH&AB) and I am proud to call myself a shia of Mohammad(PBUH&AB) and his Ahl-e-Bait (AS), after all I call my self muslim, one who believes in ALLAH ALMIGHTY and his oneness, HIS Messengers and the final of all messengers Mohammad(PBUH&AB), the holy book QURA’AN, and Mohammad’s (PBUH&AB) successors and Ahl-e-Bait(as).
And in regard to the unity of muslims, this can be achieved through studies and education. And for the sake of argument every muslims believe that Islam is a perfect and complete of all relegions and we take pride in that when we enter discussions with non-muslims. We believe the pillars of Islam is solid and can not be broken, shaken or ever be questioned. But some sunni brothers and sisters actions’ ,deeds and belief prove otherwise which is quite shameful.
Have you sunni brothers and sisters ever think deeply enough that your actions will tarnish the image of Islam by some degree in the eyes of the non-muslims, you see today, all terrorists are sunnis, and shias are indiscriminited against in all sunni ruled countries, leave shia alone you are not even allowed to do what you are commiting against innocent jews and christians or other faith groups, and of course those of you commit these acts who have very narrow knowledge of Islam, For ALLAH’s sake atleast read your own SAHIHS properly and do not escape those parts you don’t like and I am sure you’ll come to a satisfactory conclusion as to which path will take you and guide you straight to ALLAH ALMIGHTY. And as a muslim it is your duty to make informed decessions in life because ignorance can not be presented as an excuse. “ALLAH IS ALL KNOWING”.
My advice to all of you either Shia or Sunni to go through histroy thoroughly and educate your self and find your ways, just try to doubt the version of history your local preachers have been telling you, go and read the history of islam yourself, after all it is you who is answerable for your deeds to ALLAH on the day of JUDGEMENT. ALLAH ALMIGHTY judges everyone individually, and certainly will not be in favor of a majority or minority. And by reading the Hadiths and history of Islam you will see how the majority today’s sunni and minority shia has taken shape, You will find that from the moment after Mohammad(PBUH&AB) has passed away his true Sahabas(Peace be upon them) including Imam ALi (AS) were isolated and battles were fought against them and eversince most sunni countries adhere to that ritual of their forefathers until this day in time, then your majority claim will start to shake. Zulm is Zulm and never stands for it but stand to it.
My peace to all dear sunni brothers and sisters who love and respect Mohammad’s(PBUH&AB) Ahl-e-Bait.
Wassalam
You may find some related information on this site;
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/
“We muslims are busy bickering over whether to fold or unfold our arms during prayer, while the enemy is devising ways of cutting them off” Ayatullah Ruhullah Khomeini
Now, that is the wisest thing I have read all day. Mashallah
Hello!
I would like to ask a question completely unrelated to the Sunni-Shia schism. I am a male Westerner. I have been in the Kingdom for about eleven months now and I wouldn’t dare claim to have any deeper knowledge of the culture or religion, but I have been in daily contact with young Saudi men and also know people who are in touch with Saudi women. It couldn’t have escaped my attention, then, that the Kingdom is a country where a great many of the rules exist chiefly in order to be bent or broken — more so than in any other country I have so far visited: there are countless MUSTs and MUST NOTs concerning men-women relationships, alcohol and drug abuse or homosexuality, just to name a few major issues. However, when no one is looking, gone seems to be all the self-restraint. The young male Saudis often talk about this quite openly, and I appreciate their frankness. With the settled men, it’s what they don’t say rather than what they do. Now, I don’t really mean to blame them for their misdemeanours. Yet all this makes me wonder what on earth is going to become of Saudi Arabia in the next ten or twenty years? Should we expect a stiffening of the rules, or a series of gradual reforms? With all the Saudis (men and women) travelling to the West and having access to the Internet (and therefore seeing how restrictive Saudi Arabia is), the status quo doesn’t seem to be sustainable. Or am I just imagining all this because as a Westerner I simply cannot understand what’s going on? Please feel free to challenge me. Thank you.
Salaam
Interesting blog by the sister. I think the lack of understanding of Shia islam is one of the major issues between muslims today, if not the biggest. I’m not surprised that it is hard for many sunnis to learn from shias in Saudi Arabia simply because of the anti-shia atmosphere, regularly the saudi muftis issue fatwas declaring them to be kafir, some of them even going as far as saying it is legitimate to even kill them. Many shia’s in saudi and other parts of the world live in fear.
Comparing the split between sunni islam and shia islam with the split in Christianity is not a good comparison, the christians split centuries after Prophet Jesus w immediately after the Prophet saw passed away, the companions split amongst themselves, something which many Salafis tend to ignore.
The sister is right, mutah was practised during the Prophets time, there is even a Quranic verse that mentions short-term marriage but there are conditions and it isn’t as simple as picking someone up. Historical records in Sahih Bukhari and Tarikh ibn Kathir and other books prove that the second caliph, Umar ibn Khattab put an end to mutah. Besides, Misyar in essence is pretty much the same.
I do not no much about shias but from what ive heard they do not believe that Mohammed S.A.W is the last prophet??????? now how can a muslim not believe that when it is clearly stated in the holy quran and is the first kalima one of the pillars of islam??????? so please correcet me if im wrong but how do you expect people not to judge if that is what you believe, and like i said i do not know much so that is why im askin aswell
Salaams!
Its good that you asked, and according to a hadith of Amir ul Momineen Ali ibne abi Talib (as), asking questions is half the knowledge/ilm.
Dear Safa, Shias DO believe in the finality of prophethood and in Mohammad (saww) being the last prophet. I have no idea where you heard that they don’t. However, it would be good to read the zillions of websites of the Shias where all shia beliefs and their logics are very much explained in details. The Kalima of the Shias, is the same as all Muslims, There is no god but Allah, and Mohammad is his messenger and Prophet.
However, there are certain groups who don’t believe in finality of Prophethood. They are called the Qadianis, they are present in Pakistan but according to Pakistani law they are Kaafirs and not Muslims.
There is no link b/w Qadianis and Shias.
Salam,
Islam through the holy prophet pbuh has taught us that we are either brothers in faith or equals in humanity.
Shias follow the path of the prophets family (as) as this is the only true path to understand the quran and the practices of the holy prophet pbuh. I would suggest people consider/understand the purification verse of the holy quran. there are also many hadith in the sahih books which narrate the prophet saying he will leave two things behind, the quran and his family, and these two will never separate until they meet him at the fountain in heaven (kawther). Or the narration regarding Ali as, Fatima as, Hassan as and Hussein as where he pbuh says: i am at war with those who are at war with you. Or regarding Fatima as where he pbuh stated he who angers Fatima as angers me pbuh and he who angers me pbuh angers Allah swt. these are just a couple hadith which are unrefuted. All sects also agree that Fatima as is the leader of all women and is the best example to women. Considering the last two comments i have made i would suggest people look into the incident regarding fadak after the prophet pbuh left this earth. i find it astonishing people regard her so highly but think she was mistaken or claiming something which she had no right to.
I would recommend that both shia and sunni familiarize themselves with the prophets family and how they lived and practiced their islam and how they all suffered and were persecuted in their time on this earth. Imam Hussein as story is well known but what do people know about the other members? sadly in many cases not enough. How will people face Allah swt and the Holy Prophet pbuh on judgement day and justify the treatment and murders of his pure progeny?
to say shia get extra points for hurting sunni i would say that both sects have more in common than they have differences, lets focus on what we have in common as islam has taught us. if muslims are taught to respect all mankind including non muslims (see my opening comment) this marks this statement as completely baseless. Regarding your second point re ashoura. it is true many shia take part in this, not all but it does happen. No shia scholar has said it is halal, but none have either directly said it is haram. i have never done it with any knives, sword or chains, but i regard the whole thing as beautiful. inshallah i will go this year to Karbala for muharram and it would be my honour to shed some of my blood on the ground that was covered with the holy blood of the prophets pbuh family only 50/60 years after he left this earth (how muslims of this time could think this was a good idea i dont know), i try to look at it this way, if i present myself on judgement day with marks on my body through my love, support and grief over what happened would i get punished for it (i dont feel that i would) i would rather that than be marked from drink, drugs. Either way shia do not say it is a wajib act and that everyone must do it. its your own personal choice as long as there is no risk of serious harm.
Regarding the cursing, i would happily curse the persecutors, enemies and killers of the prophets family (as) can anyone say this is wrong? i would suggest that people consider the practice that was done by our saudi brothers when they would curse imam Ali every friday during the kutba in juma prayers, the same man who is the gate of knowledge to islam (in other words to find true islam you must enter through him). did the prophet not appoint Ali as as the peoples mawla during ghadeer khums on his final hajj (if not then why did the caliph companions question the prophet about this and then congratulate Ali after? as per sahih books) look at the fadak incident as i mentioned above in relation to the ‘he who anger fatima as’ hadith.
about the practice of muta we do not say it is wajib, but that it is not haram. It does come with rules and pillars such as a virgin lady must seek her fathers permission. I am glad you recognize that the prophet did allow it, i would ask you to research the history of the hadiths regarding this. you will find many discrepancies on who and when it was made haram. there is also hadith from Ali as saying that if it was not for the banning of muta the no muslim would have ever committed fornication, (was the gate of knowledge confused when saying this?) have a look on al-islam.org and search ‘muta’ there is a good piece of work looking at this topic.
I am a shia muslim, born and raised in scotland and now living in saudi. some of the anti shia comments i have heard make me laugh. Did the prophet not teach us to verify with our eyes what our ears hear?
I pray for Allah to guide us all because as we bicker among ourselves our enemies are plotting to kill us. How can we expect the Mahdi as to appear when we are so weak in our faith and brotherhood. Allah has promised us victory but we are as an ummah unable to reach out and take it.
i just want to say that please be like a human not shia or sunni i’m also the hanafi sunni barelvi from india i think the wahabis are not good person because the force other to do like that they do it’s not justice islam is a religion of peace and calmness it’s not spread by force but for love and spiritual ideas i believe in Sufism but wahabis don’t like the sufism it’s divine path i belive in quran and hadith and also i have strong belive in sunnah i also go to the shrine but wahabis think that we pray the grave it’s not true yes we go to grave and shrine and pray to god and want from allah with the sadakah of the great wali ullah because they did good work for islam and for allah that’s why we are like his students and we think them our master but it’s not true that we worship the graves please please live on earth with love and affection not the hatred environment like wahabis do and shia is also not good they extra belive in ali and think that he was the first caliph but the truth is diffrent please my shia and wahabi brother and sister live with love and happiness not hatred world and spread love every where sunnah and path of mohammed s.a.w and belive in one god and think unlike wahabis that mohammed s.a.w is like a simple man and like or big brother he has a ilm of gaib of course, he is hazir or nazir every where and he is of course a human but he is noori bashar huzur s.a.w not a simple man not a simple human being he is special one …. and he has four caliph 1. abu bakr siddiq r.a
2. umar farooq r.a
3. uthman gani.r.a.
4. ali shere khuda r.a
we hanafi barelvi sufi think in sufism means spread islam with love and affection like khqaja moinuddin hasan chisti, makhdoom ashraf simnani…
A recent study conducted by the United Nations confirmed that of the muslims, Shia’s were infinitely more handsome bothg in facial features and the bodily physique. They have better complexion, form, symmetry and aesthetic appeal than most Sunni’s. Yes, this is is a fact. There is more Sayed bloodline of the holy Alulbayt amongst the shia and this gives rise to the blessing of good looks. It was well documented that Our Rasool, Peace and blessings be upon him and his family were gifted with unrivalled beauty by Allah tha’aala. The UN report continued with its conclusion about the general lack of good looks amongst the Sunni population and confirmed that this was a direct result of the fact that most Sunni’s are descended from the the line of Abu Sufyaan, Mauwwia and Yazeed. Now it Is a well established fact that this evil serpent like family that were the enemies of our beloved Rasool (peace and blessing be upon his beautiful name) and his holy family. For this reason they were unfortunately afflicted with ugliness.Allah tha’alla decided that he will also make them ugly on the outside because their hearts on the inside were dark and ugly and filled with hatred for his holy messenger and his pure family.
This is the real reason why shia are generally more attractive than Sunnis.
The amazing thing is that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and Shia’s are the fastest growing group within the muslim ummah. I have witnessed amazing results when sunnis and wahabbi types have converted to the true path. The ugly genetics just seem to be washed away because of Allah’s infinite mercy. Im sure you don’t want me to prove it with pictures, because I can put up a rogues gallery of Wahabbi’s next to the beautiful blessed shia ahle rasool (pbuh). But as a good muslim I wouldn’t be so cruel to you. Ugly people have hard enough life as it is. May Allah guide your unfortunate souls to the right path so that you too can be relieved of your burden. Just be thankful that we are healthy and not hungry and thirsty and will never have to suffer the unbearable tragedy of Kerbala at the hands of so-called muslims whose hearts were ugly and blackened by greed and power.
Whoever wrote comments under ‘
Beautiful people of Ummah’ – - would like to know where did you get this information – you mentioned United Nations conducted a study that Shia’s or Ahl E Bayt are more beautiful physically than other muslims – Can you please guide us to where we can find this info.
Thaks
Salaam Ashfaq
This UN study was conducted over a 3 year period and was submitted about 5 years ago. A random sample of 125,000 people from 32 muslim states was studied in-depth. The Shia were considered the most beautiful people, the Sunni’s came second. As a control group 15,000 jews were included. Unfortunately the Wahabbi’s and Salafis were judged bythis independent UN study to be the most ugliest of all people. The conclusion was that basically those people who harboured demonic and evil thoughts within their hearts were ugly on the outside too. Probabaly a punishment from the almighty!!!! I was
wondering why you would question the fact that Allah the almighty would make the Ahlulbayt beautiful? Surely they are showered with his blessings, or do you challenge this too? You will have to go the UN website to access the study, it’s widely available.
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