المقال باالعربي the article in English
إلى كل قراء سبق والصحف الأخرى أقرأوا المقال كاملا في الصحيفة الفرنسية قبل التعليق. وأريد ايضا إضافة بعض النقاط:
أولا أنا لست ضد النقاب لمن أرادت ذلك فعلا عن علم ووعي ولكن كيف نتأكد من ذلك؟ قد أثبتت التجربة في السعودية فشل ذريع وازدواجية ونفاق ومن الأمثلة على ذلك ما يحصل في نظام التعليم حيث نلزم الطالبات بالغطاء و بطريقة معينة وكثير من المعلمات والمديرات في حياتهم الشخصية يتحجبون فقط. فتتربى الأجيال على هذا وتتعلم أن النفاق جزء لا يتجزء من الحياة. وكم سعودية فعلا تحب غطاء الوجه؟ أصعد أي طائرة دولية من الرياض لترى بنفسك عدد النساء اللاتي يلتزمن به خارج الحدود. وهل نلومهم. أنا أدعي كل رجل يرى أن المرأة يجب أن تغطي وجهها ,وبالذات هؤلاء حليقين اللحى ومرتدين الجينز, أن يجربوا غطاء الوجه كل ما خرجوا من منازلهم. هل يستطيع هؤلاء وضع قطعة سوداء على وجههم كل صباح في الطريق الى العمل؟
وثانيا الناس الذين يدعون انني متسعودة أو ليست صاحبة نسب, أهذه تعاليم ديننا؟ أنا من النفجان من الرس من قبيلة بني تميم وأمي من التركي من بني خالد. وبالرغم من ذلك أريد أن أصرح أنني أيضا متسعودة وسنية وشيعية وخضيرية ونجدية وحجازية وجنوبية….الخ ماذا تفرق؟ كلنا مواطنين وكلنا لنا حق.
الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول من رأى منكم منكرا فليغيره بيده ، فإن لم يستطع فبلسانه ، فإن لم يستطع فبقلبه ، وذلك أضعف الإيمان . رواه مسلم .
إلى متى ونحن نشوه صورة الإسلام والدولة حتى أصبح التضييق على النساء وترهيب المواطنيين والمقييمين شعارنا ورمزنا في كل العالم بدل ما يكون التوحيد والأخلاق السامية؟ ويتهم المتشددون كل من حاول مساعدة المرأة السعودية بأنه عدو يتربص بها! كيف أكون عدوة نفسي وابنتي وأخواتي وطالباتي؟
وأخيرا هذا حقي كمواطنة مسلمة حرة أن أعبر عن نفسي ورأيي و لن أتنازل عنه
Saudiwoman's Weblog 
Your blog is in English and I’d like to post this comment in English too for readability to most readers. I personally don’t have anything against women nor covering their faces, provided that they abide by Islam’s teaching regarding modesty, I believe that no sane person (let it be a Muslim or not) approves the extreme western model for women, where she is abused and thought of as goods and services, a sex symbol in advertisement for example. I also understand that this is totally not the argument here.
But I consider it equally oppressive not to allow a Muslim woman to wear a Niqab or any form of cover she believes in, regardless of the weak security excuses, and to have a Muslim like you who totally knows ( I suppose) the correct Islamic fatwa regarding Hijab appose wearing it is completely beyond me understanding. U know it is not compulsory in Saudi Arabia, and u know that there are so many places in Saudi Arabia where women do not cover their faces but still u think of it with the same point of view a western ( as in ignorant – to the Islamic fatwa about Hijab) might have, The point of view seeing Muslim women oppressed and forced to wear Hijab against their well. To me, the only explanation for your opinion and article is to show off and the get some fame. I am a women activist and there are so many Saudi women-women activists who oppose the European ban of Hijab. For god’s sake the Majority of Muslim women (those who cover and those who don’t cover) are against Hijab ban in Europe or elsewhere. No matter how free a person is to speak up and convey his/her opinions, they don’t have the right to support the ban or confiscation of somebody else’s own rights.
– side note : the small percentage of Saudi women u see uncover when they travel to Europe are not a correct statistical sample. And I guess u know this anyways.
I can understand it if u don’t show my comment but I’ll always be willing to discuss this issue over Email if u care to.
As an American, I have been under the impression that in Saudi it is mandatory that women wear the niqab in public and may not have their photos posted in public if their face is showing. You appear to be saying otherwise. This would be a massive misunderstanding, could other Saudi’s comment and confirm??
It is NOT mandatory to cover ones face, but most people just feel more comfortable. ( I personally do NOT) There is also the times when the Ha’ai (religious police) may see you and request that you cover your face… You can either oblige or ignore.
Moreover we have females in the newspapers and magazines with their face showing (our papers even have celebrities with latest gossip sprawled across it). Saudi TV also has female anchors that do not cover their face, and don’t wear 3baya (black cloak) when they are on air.
I have personally seen many expat women who have not worn the 3baya (usually in the Eastern Region but I have also seen it here in Riyadh), and you will see many of the female Saudi doctors (hospital employees) walk around in their lab coats instead of wearing the 3baya- also something I have seen first hand. You will even see that many (obviously NOT all) of the younger Saudi women opt to walk around with the 3baya but NOT covering their hair.
Take care 🙂
Covering the face is mandatory in all public schools and most private schools. It is also mandatory in most government colleges. students and staff are not allowed to leave the premises unless they cover their faces. Only in the bigger cities can a woman walk around with her face uncovered. in Qaseem and other areas she would be harassed by people “advising” her.
I don’t see the reason for this debate. The Islamic dress code for both men and women have been well defined. And no, for the women it is not niqab and black abaya!! What are you all arguing about Islam or Culture?..
MORE THAN ALL THIS:
LA IKRAHA FID DEEN!…
” there is NO compulsion in religion”..
No one can force anyone to do anything in religion. This is Allah’s word. Is there anyone who knows better than Allah here?
Based on statistics it seems the veil does not prevent Muslim women to be abused. By the way believe me, I live in a western country and I’ve never been abused (me or any of the women I know). It can happen of course as unrespectful and uneducated men are everywhere but not more that in any other (muslim or not muslim) countries of the world. Moreover nobody force me to wear sexy clothes if I do not feel comfortable with them and I’ve never been asked any sexual performance on my job to encourage my carrier and I’m not an exception.
بإختصار.. المراسله بالعربية ليس مقبول عند صاحب الأنجليزية
Also .. English messaging is not acceptable when the arabiya
سبحان من قال:(وَلَوْلا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْضٍ لَفَسَدَتِ الْأَرْضُ (وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ ذُو فَضْلٍ عَلَى العَالَمِينَ
يقول الشافعي: رأيي صواب يحتمل الخطأ ورأي غيري خطأ يحتمل الصواب
ثلاث نقاط أفهميها كما هي تعرفي الإجابة
كثر البحث والبحوث تتعب ولكن تعلمت أن الحقيقة لا تقف عند أي أحد ولا تهم إلا الباحث عنها
متنقبين ولا متحجبين
نخاف عليكم من ناس ما تخاف الله
Why put yourself between the two words out of your mouth and people have no mercy? Why you, sister?
Kindly, let me tell you some facts about niqab:
1. To be in the light is much more explicit than to be in the dark.. for many reasons..
2. Bad girls are happy to use niqab for their bad actions..
3. Terrorists find niqab as a good shield for hiding and escaping justice..
4. Criminals are also using niqab to perform their worst crimes..
5. Niqab have prevented woman from many work opportunities..
6. You may find it difficult to drive a car while wearing niqab..
7. Communicating with public, for different needs and wants, is hard with niqab,
8. Sometimes, female students do not have as equal and good education as male ones.. because of shortage in universities qualified female staff..
9. Niqab hide the most important thing: face expressions – by which feelings and emotions are identified..
I add (the tenth fact):
10. Niqab is unhealthy for a woman and could cause the “rickets disease” because of insufficiency of vitamin D that skin absorbs from sunlight (conclusion of a recent study).
I posted to a Saudi forum called Alqemma القمة the above facts, and included a voting on whether they are 1. with, or 2. against the niqab in saudi Arabia.
The results came up to about 60% against vs 40% with..
But gradually came closer and now it is 55% with, and 45% against..
Voting is still ongoing, and I dont know whether it is acceptable here to put a link for the post..
Anyhow, I will put the link, and it is up to Eman to delete or leave it..
Here u go:
http://alqumaa.net/vb/showthread.php?t=57261
This is just great! I had to google translate it but I love LOVE to see men working as hard as women for the equal liberation of everyone. It shouldn’t just be women fighting for women, sons, husbands and brothers need to step up as well. bravo!
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
أولا أحيكي الاخت الفاضلة على شجاعتك في التعبير عن رأيك بكل حرية وشفافية-رغم أنني قد لا اشطرك الرأي في بعض ما صرحة به في المسائل التشريعية الى انني أحترم رأيك- خصوصا في هذا التعقيب حيث وضحت لنا وجهة نظرك بكل وضوح
ثانيا : بما أنني أعرف كل من فرنسا ودول الخليج خصوصا المملكة العربية السعودية لانني عشت ولازلت أعيش فيهم معيشة رحال باحث على شاكلة جدنا ابن بطوطة
واتقن جيدا اللغة الفرنسية فارجوا ان نفتح حوار صريح فيما بيننا حول
موضوع النقاب في المملكة العربية السعودية من جهة
وموضوع النقاب في فرنسا
في المملكة العربية السعودية بما أنكي سعودية أحترم رأيك و أفضل ترك المجال للسعوديات الاخريات في تفنيد أو رد ما كتبته عن المرأة السعودية المنقبة
في فرنسا وهذا هو الموضوع الذي يهمني في تصريحك الذي جاء مترجم من المقال الاصلي بالانجليزية في موقع فرونس
24
http://observers.france24.com/en/content/20100825-saudi-woman-blogger-backs-france-burqa-ban
حيث حسب الموقع صرحت بأنك متفقة ومساندة لقرار فرنسا بمنع النقاب
في فرنسا
“I agree with France. Let’s ban the full veil!”
و هنا أخلافك الرأي أختي الفاضلة للاسباب التالية
لقد انطلقت من التجربة السعودية في التعامل مع المراة و النقاب و التي تعيشها أنتي ولديك وجهة نظر أحترمها
ولكن الخطأ العلمي هنا في اسقاط هذه التجربة النقابية السعودية على دولة ديمقراطية وهي فرنسا حيث كل التقارير الامنية و الاستخبارتية لوزارة الداخلية الفرنسة أكدت أن السواد الاعظم من الفرنسيات المنقبات هن فرنسيات حديثات العهد بالاسلام واصولهن من فرنسا و أغلبيتهن ليست متزوجات و يرتدين النقاب بمحظ ارادتهن بعبارة أخرى ليس هناك أدنى
ضغوطات من الرجل أو الاسرة أو المجتمع
ومن هنا لا أفهم موقفك بخصوص قانون ساركوزي في منع النقاب الغير المتسامح في احترام الفرنسيات المنقبات اللتي يرتدين النقاب بكل تلقائية واقتناع شخصي دون ضغوط لا من الرجال أ و الاسرة
لانكي أعلنت بصراحة أنكي مع حظر النقاب في فرنسا دون ان تأخذي أدنى اعتبار لحرية الفرنسيات في ارتداء النقاب
وهو أمر لا يعبر في الحقيقية على دعم حرية المرأة في اتخاذ قرار بمحظ اراتدها بل هو في نهاية الامر قمع للمرأة المنقبة الفرنسية التي ترتدي النقاب بمحي اراتدها ودون أي اكراه لا من الدولة ولا من المجتمع و لا من الرجل
فاذا كنت اختي الفاضلة
لست ضد النقاب لمن أرادت ذلك فعلا عن علم ووعي حسب عبارتك فلماذا صرحت بأنكي مع منع النقاب في فرنسا ؟؟؟؟؟؟
أليس هذا تناقض في موقفك أختي الكريمة ؟
من ناحية أخرى الاخت الفاضلة استدلالك بتجربة السعودية في هذا الموضوع هو أمر مرفوض لانه غير منطقي و غير موضوعي
لماذا ؟
لان المملكة العربية السعودية خلافا لفرنسا هي دولة اسلامية نظام الحكم فيها ملكي وراثي يستمد في بعض التشريعات و القوانين من الاسلام
اسسه ما جاء في توافق الشيخ محمد عبد الوهاب مع ال سعود
بينما فرنسا نظام الحكم فيها جمهوري ديمقراطي علماني
الرئيس و البرلمان والمعارضة منتخبة و التشريعات تقرها الاغلبية المنتخبة من طرف الشعب
وتمتاز في روحها في أغلب الاحيان بالعلمانية الجمهورية
والفرنسي و الفرنسية بمجوب القانون لديهم حريات فردية
ووجبات بمجوب القانون بخض النظر عن الدين و الجنسية و الجنس و الميولات الفكرية
ومن هنا أختي لا يمكنك اسقاط ما سميته التجربة النقاب للمرأة السعودية مع التجربة الفتية للمرأة الفرنسية مع النقاب في فرنسا !!!!
فاذا كنت تدافعين على حقوق المرأة المسلمة وغير المسلمة فانه من الواجب المنطقي الانساني أن تدافعي على حرية المرأة في اختيارتها الحرة عن وعي وعلم وشخصي بارتداء النقاب أو عدم ارتدائه في فرنسا و في العالم
وبما أن قانون ساركوزي يمنع النقاب على المرأة الفرنسية التي أخترته بكل حرية و ووعي و علم
فان هذا القانون هو ضد حرية اختيار المرأة وهو ضد اراتدها
اذن انطلاقا من هذه البدهيات كان موقفك يجب أن يكون مع حرية المرأة الفرنسية في اختياره لارتداء النقاب أو عدم ارتدائه
وبالتالي ضد قانون ساركوزي الذي يمنع النقاب في فرنسا كليا ودون تفصيل !
وهذا هو الانصاف المنطقي وليس اسقاط المحيط السعودي على المحيط الفرنسي المختلف
أرجو أختي الكريمة أن تتقبل تعقيبي بصدر رحب
واذا ما كان هناك استفسار عن هذا القانون الفرنسي فأنا مستعد للاعطاء كل الخلفيات السياسية وراء هذا القانون
حياك الله أخت إيمان, وكل عام وأنتي بخير
سعيد جداً بما قرأته منك, والأفكار الجميلة التي تدل على عقلية متزنة , وشخصية مسلمة ذات فكر مستقل
أود فقط من خلال تعليقي هذا تحيتك, وتأييدك في كل ماذكرتيه فالكثير من الذين لايودون أن يفهمون يقولون بأن النقاب حرية شخصية, ونحن نقول لهم هل هي اختارت بنفسها ذلك أم أنه فرض عليه سوف تعاقب وتتهم في شرفها ودينها إن هي تركته ؟؟
أختي الكريمة , كم نحن في حاجة الإتساع في الفكر والتطلع إلى معايشة العصر الحالي بعقليات ناضجة تعرف حقيقة الإسلام وتفهم مضمونه وتنادي بالتحرر من كل سلطة غير الله عليها
لكي مني التحية , وسوف أعود بمشيئة الله هنا
الحقيقه انك من جنب الدين يعني ليش جاء امر بالحجاب برايك آية بالقران والقران كلام الله صح والا لا يعني برأيك يا أيمان في آيه من كلام الله لا تدرس مدى احساس المراه بالتعب او الملل منه والا كلام الله منقوص وانتي جيتي تكمليه او تصححيه يعني القران وضح غاية فوق احساسك يا جاهله وجاء لمنع ضرر او اذى لكن انتي تحبي تسمحي لنفسك انتي تتحملي الذنب وبعدين انتي ناقصه ذنوب عشان تاخذي ذنوب خلق الله والا غرتك فرنسا ما حد يكلمك اذا كشفتي لان فيه اجمل منك واحلى منك تبين يتركونهم ويطالعون فيك عموما لو بس اخذتي ذنب على الكشف عن وجهك لوحده يكفي فما بالك بذنوب غيرك يا ترى عندك علم بالدين اكثر من المفتين والا حره بنفسك وحبيتي تطلعيها يعني عندك كلام خطير روحي فرنسا وقوليه وارجعيه خسارة بس التذاكر كان ارسلتيه صوت
@Angel Trunton
May I quote you ?
“Shut up and mind your own business” ( I don’t like this tone )
See it goes both ways …. And please, please, please check up your facts next time. I can’t really blame you so much when you find yourself bombarded by hijacked biased (Zionism agenda serving -by ownership) western media
http://temida.free.ngo.pl/media.htm
(btw many Saudis watch western media in
English and other languages but only a very small percentage of westerns –if any- watch Arabic media even when the news is about the middle east, we know about you and your lifestyle much more than what you think you know about us)
I bet u have never been into any Islamic country, and specially not to Saudi Arabia (you quote others over the internet) which explains the amount of distortion in the image you have about Islam and Muslims, whereas I know many westerns personally and have been to many western countries and have seen how sex segregation is an everyday issue in many workplaces where women are only hired because of their looks (especially in marketing and public relations) or being harassed by their male colleague. Or where media can dictate what it means to be a male or a female (gender segregation driven by capitalism!!)Plz read this:
http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Students/del0001.html
and this
http://temida.free.ngo.pl/media.htm
Note: Saudi Arabia is a special case when it comes to public practice of other religions and other activities, because it holds the two Islamic holy mosques exactly like how the Vatican is a special case.
I wonder just how come wearing Hijab or Niqab is offensive to you when the whole case is whether or not to allow “another” woman to wear it if she chooses and believes in it. Is it offensive to see someone drink alcohol by a nondrinker? Don’t you have a better argument? Why is a nun (who cover her head and hair and wear modest clothe) not offensive to others?
I can smell fear of difference here.
I was very hesitant to reply to you, out of respect to the original topic by the blogger. I prefer if we use emails if you still want to discuss.
While you are correct that we are nearly completely blindfolded here in the U.S. Be careful, watching the US media doesn’t tell you much about us. It’s a projection of us designed to get us to consume whatever is being sold.
Hi,
I think mabe Angel Trunton was not so polite, but I agree with her – in western countries women have more freedom and in Islamic countries they are more like sexual objects. Of course in the western tv there are a lot of beutiful women, who stay there cause they are beautiful – you can also find a lot of handsome men doing the same. And they are there because it is their own choice, nobody forces them to do it. Some women in the western countries do they lives by their outlooks – but has anybody (except her husband maybe) treated Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel, Condoliza Rice and many others as sex symbols¿?NO. And they did not have to cover themselves in black clothes and nobody harrassed them. I have lived in muslim countries, I was married to a muslim, and yes I felt there like a sexual object, A TOY FOR MY HUSBAND. And I cannot be a sexual toy, object for anybody, I am a living person. I remember that as a wife the most important thing for his family and friends was how well I cook, not what kind of person I am.
Probably you are right when you say that western people doesn’t know enough about Arabian countries, but If you think to learn about western life style and culture from TV you will be also quite far from the reality. Believe me nobody’s life is like in “Sex and the City”. The most of us are just normal people struggling with family, kids, job, bills to pay and all those everyday issues like everywhere else in the world.
تحية طيبة ..
أؤيد كلام إيمان وبشدة وأرى أن كشف الوجه في بعض الحالات يكون لازما على المرأة وليس فقط مباح ..
غريبة هي الحملات التي تقام لدعم النقاب !
مشكلتنا كسعوديين أننا نخاف التغيير ولو أني أجزم أن البعض من مشايخنا موقن بإباحة كشف الوجه ولكن يخشى لومة لائم .
اللهم بين لنا الحق حقاً وارزقنا اتباعه وبين لنا الباطل باطلا وارزقنا اجتنابه .
عتب على الردود باللغة الانجليزية غير مسوغ أن نتناقش بيننا وفي مواضيع تخصنا بلغة أخرى .
شكرا
علماء المسلمين كانوا ولازالوا -وسيظلون- مختلفين حول وجوب تغطية الوجه من استحبابه.. لكنهم لم يختلفوا على أولوية وأفضلية غطاء الوجه، ربما استثنوا إذا خشية االمرأة على نفسها.. إذن فالمسألة فيها حرية ومرونة وأريحية في الاختيار، ولكن بعض الناس يضيقون على أنفسهم وأهليهم
في السعودية مثلاً.. كثير من السعوديات في المنطقتين الشرقية والغربية يكشفن وجوههن منذ سنين ولم يعترض عليهن أحد.. وفي نجد والجنوب الغالب تغطية الوجه ولم يأمرهن أحد بخلاف ذلك.. أكرر وجود حالات تفرض على بناتها هذا أو ذلك هي أخطاء فردية لا ينبغي تعميمها
أنت والكاتبة الفاضلة تمارسون ذات التطرف الذي يمارسه من يفرض كشف الوجه أو تغطيته
كلا طرفي قصد الأمور ذميم
تحية للمعتدلين
🙂
I agree that it should ultimately be a woman’s choice. what to wear within the broader norms expected by a society. In my view, it sounds like Saudi society is far too narrow in their expectations. I have never been there and frankly have zero desire to visit.
I have, however, spent considerable time in Pakistan where my family comes from, though i was not born there. I think there should be a deeper discussion about choice. When I was in Lahore I met many poorer women who at first said that they covered their head because they want to. but when i got to know them better it emerged that in fact they had no choice in the matter, as they would be terribly ostracized if they went around in public uncovered, which they do differently there, of course. in the media is repeated the same things over and over again, that western feminists should stay out of muslimah business because supposedly women in islamic world have the choice. that might be so for a tiny minority of elite women, but really women do have no choice. in pak i also covered because i was harrassed by men if i did not. so the “choice” was a ruse; i had to do it. can you do a blog posting about choice for muslim women?
i like your blog, thank you.
بغض النضر عن الموضوع اللي اخالفك فيه قلباً وقالباً واشوف ان الدعوى كلها حب للشهره والضهور ولو على حساب الدين وبعدين ابي افهم المدونه بالانجليزي وتناق
الامازيغي أنت رائع جدا 🙂
I’m not in favor of a ban on niqaab or hijaab or anything that has to do with how a woman chooses to dress. What I would like to see changed is the choice women have. Maybe I’m being idealistic, but I’d like that in Saudi, and all countries for that matter, women really have the choice to veil or not, and that they are not pressured into it by anyone. If a women really wants to wear niqaab, because she believes in it, then I don’t see why she can’t, especially in a muslimcountry. If she’s forced to wear it because otherwise society will dissaprove of her, and she will be harassed and get a bad name, then I’m against it by all means. Free will is the most important thing to me.
Thanks for you post, though, it was very interesting and it’s nice to read different opinions.
@Om Lujain
Obviously she’s saying that Muslims can live as they want to in their own nations. In the west they must live according to the laws of western lands.
Did you read those Saudi visitor rules? Holy cow! These people are really outrageous.
If they can enforce such rules of dress, foods and worship why can’t the west?
When in Rome as they say.
Of course, it appears that Muslims believe the whole world belongs to them and they can do what they want, wherever they go while the rest of us must also obey their rules.
They feel very free to criticize every culture with impunity and never seem to clean up their own filth. They have no rights in their own countries, yet feel no compunction to tell everyone else how they should live their lives down to how they should dress.
Maybe Muslims need to tell others how to live because they themselves have no choices.
Besides, it’s been mentioned before that niqab is a security issue. People do not want a bunch of hooded, veiled, creepy looking women (or men, who knows?) wandering around in public, wondering if they have a bomb under their robes.
End of story!
“Obviously she’s saying that Muslims can live as they want to in their own nations. In the west they must live according to the laws of western lands.
Did you read those Saudi visitor rules? Holy cow! These people are really outrageous.”
Your comment confuses me. Muslims do seem to live by the laws of western lands. It’s not illegal to wear more clothing over less, or to eat halal meat or pray, or fast, or drive your wife around instead of her driving. It’s also not illegal to try and change things like silly swimsuit laws. Given that they have the right to practice their customs in their countries, why would it be outrageous to ask visitors to observe the ones that matter most? It doesn’t seem right to say that since our customs are liberal therefore, when someone comes here they may pretty much do as they choose, so, those with conservative customs are outrageous for following their conservative customs.
How ignorant and racist was that comment?
“Besides, it’s been mentioned before that niqab is a security issue. People do not want a bunch of hooded, veiled, creepy looking women (or men, who knows?) wandering around in public, wondering if they have a bomb under their robes.”
Creepy looking? Wandering around in public, wondering if they have a bomb under their robes.
How on earth do people think they can speak of other human beings minding their own business, and it’s perfectly fine?
I agree with a lot of what you say Alicia. It appears the goal posts are being constantly moved with Muslims.
They abided by the law, so a new law was introduced in France targeting a particular community, under the guise of ‘protecting women’.
It’s a racist law aimed at ONE group, any person with an ounce of intelligence knows this.
Here’s an interesting comment by Tony Blair ironically enough:
“We remember above all that the Holocaust did not start with a concentration camp. It started with a brick through the shop window of a Jewish business, the desecration of a synagogue, the shout of racist abuse on the street, with hatred which is so terribly easy to kindle and so terribly hard to quench”
We’re headed down this road steadily and it’s very sad.
The difference here is that the US, or many Western countries are based on FREEDOM OF RELIGION!, and the nationals of that country are of all Faiths.
Here is the important part here.. SAUDI HAS NEVER CLAIMED TO HAVE FREEDOM OF RELIGION. POINT. BLANK!
So I say if one wants to come to Saudi to work, as many westerners do with the great perks given, then simply follow the rules. As was already posted, you have already been told what is expected of you BEFORE you come here. Its rather simple. Saudi is a Muslim country, which ONLY follows the Islamic rules. So if you really want to eat pork, drink, or whatever you feel is being taken away from you by coming here.. get a job in lets say the UAE or Bahrain?!
I am always pleased when I find a website that addresses women’s issues. I believe that it will take the moral strength and determination of women to bring justice and humane reasoning into global policymaking. I thank the management team who brought this website onto the international stage.
One of the wonders and amazements in communication today is the fact that through the world wide web and a send botton important issues can be known by people through out the world in an instant. Mk-Ultra is such an important and vital isssue. Please Google the word, “Mk-Ultra” then visit my blog
ruhullaha-maryamkho.blogspot.com.
Thank you,
Maryam Ruhullah
I’ll disagree with you slightly.
We Muslims follow the example of the Prophet (PBUH) and he did not make a distinction between male and female rights.
His primary concern was JUSTICE for all.
He did not prioritize a particular agenda over another, or one group over another. He didn’t prioritize the rights of downtrodden Male orphans (which he could relate to from a personal experience) over female infanticide, he condemned both equally and unequivocally at the same time.
Single-issue campaigns end up focusing on one thing and one thing only, ultimately they end up ignoring or barely noticing the insidious injustices around them, which aren’t directly linked to their one-issue campaign.
My brotherly advice would be for the owner of this blog and other like minded individuals/groups to cease viewing themselves as a woman only, but as a human being first and foremost.
That means campaigning for the better treatment of foreign workers and domestic workers especially. To fight for a better, more just governance system that’s open and transparent and so forth, rather than focus on ‘fatwas’ by idiots aimed at women, or Women’s issues solely.
I know the argument will be, that there are others doing this already, and one can only focus on a particular area to campaign against, but justice has no priorities, you have to stand up and be counted on and speak up against ALL forms of injustices around you once you’re aware of them, rather than delegate the responsibility for certain issues to others.
Salaam Unnamed,
You articulate your views so well that I am pleased at your slight disagreement of my views. That disagreement caused you to reply which open the door for healthy discourse.
The reason I place an importance on women’s views is the fact that we are so under represented in the theatre of world leadership that that inbalance I believe is shone in the fact of world hunger, wars, injustice, poor health care, inferior education, shall I go on. I hope you took the time to Google the work–Mk-Ultra, as this type of inhumane injustice would b greatly lessened with more female voices in leadership. You must understand that during war it is the women who are raped. I appreciate your reply to my comment.
Sincerely,
Maryam Ruhullah
By dint of denigrating the women who wear the niqab in France you are playing the game of anti Muslim Eman El Nafjan shame on you, you want the freedom of women to choose their life and you condemn in France you are inconsistent.
It prohibits girls in hijab to go to school in France and you defend the racist Sarkozy, shame on you!.
How girl in hijab have been attacked by anti-Muslim in France, your article helps to European Muslims stigmatized.
Beware of France 24 you a racist newspaper in the pay of Sarkozy. To spread the good word of France in Arab countries.
France24 = Fox news are invited from organizations like the FN or Islamophobic Response laity, organistic anti-Muslim and anti-Islam
و الله أنا ما يهمني أنت من بني تميم و لا من بني صعصعة بن طعطعة اللي يهمني انك تبعدين يدك عن الحار و ترى هالامريكان اللي يصفقون لك و الله ما صفقوا الا لانك تنتقصين دينك و قيمك و لا من وراء ظهرك يسمونك ساند نقر, بعدين وش دخل الشعوب الانجلوساكسونية اللي ذكرتيهم بتصريحك للجريدة الفرنسية؟؟ سعودي يتكلم مع فرنسيين وش دخل الانجلوساكسون و لا على بالك ان اي اوروبي انجلوساكسوني!!
I hope Miss Saudiwoman you do not treat your employee’s household and kitchen like that !!!!
A Sri Lankan, a domestic worker in Saudi Arabia and has 24 metal nails driven into the body – by torture inflicted by her Saudi employer – must be made Friday to Sri Lanka, reported the head of the hospital where she was admitted .
L. T. Ariyawathi, 49, told his Saudi employer had acted to punish.
She was repatriated to Sri Lanka last week and admitted to hospital Kamburupitiya in South Island, said Warden Prabath Gajadeera.
“She was brought in complaining that his employer has brought Saudi nails into his body. Radios showed 24 nails and needles,” said Prabath Gajadeera. “It was a nail in the forehead, just under the skin.
According radiographs published in local newspapers, some of the nails through the hands, feet and legs are long Mrs Ariyawathi five centimeters.
According Prabath Gajadeera, it does not appear that the vital internal organs are affected Sri Lankan.
The Sri Lankan police investigation into allegations of L. T. Ariyawathi, had said earlier the Minister of Economic Development Laskhman Yapa Abeywardena.
This woman is so traumatized that she has not yet been able to give details about his life in Saudi Arabia where she arrived in March.
About 1.8 million Sri Lankans working abroad, officials said in Colombo. Some 70% are women, most of whom are domestic workers in countries of the Near and Middle East. Complaints of abuse are frequent.
Employers Saudi torture their home is more serious than your state of mind Miss Saoudiwoman.
انا قد شفتها في امريكا في 1991
صدق انها ساند نقر…. شين وقوي عين
والله من حب الشهرة والترزز ، وصدق من قال : ” انت مهبول او من اهل …؟؟؟
The Rich Saudi Alwaleed Talal While working with Islamophobia and anti-Muslim What hypocrisy! .
Fox News, for weeks, blowing on the embers of latent anti-Islam, which consumes the United States since the case of the “Mosque of Ground Zero. Fox goes hand in hand with another owned by Rupert Murdoch, the Wall Street Journal, fell into the hands of one who turns gold into lead (as well as in cash). The Wall Street Journal published August 15, an article citing “reports” are not mentioned, namely that the mocked “receives funding from Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf princes are also funding madrassas.”
When nothing disturbs the conscience of Murdoch on the one hand he denounces, without beginning a prima facie showing, the financing of the mosque which would Saudi Arabia, when he himself is associated with the Saudi royal family. Saudi Arabia has, in fact 30% (excuse the lack) of the media group. After the Murdoch family itself, Saudi Arabia is the second largest shareholder in News Corp.. Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, nephew of the king, has invested 3 billion dollars through his Kingdom Holding Group Co.
Anyone who denounces Islam has also taken a 9% _ worth $ 70 million _ in the company of the prince, Rotana. The company owns 40% of the cinemas of the Middle East and the major music label in the region. The prince should come to his company stock, boosting investment and News Group.
For Murdoch, Islam is always a winning proposition: the United States in denouncing the religion as terrorists, it sells newspapers and boosts the ratings of his chains. In the Gulf, investing in his group and allows it to grow.
“We Muslims follow the example of the Prophet and he did not make a distinction between male and female rights”.
You must be in total denial!!! – Ummm yes, he made a distinction between male and female rights, all the darn time, including the one which allowed men to own slaves (non-muslims would think of these slaves as human beings, by the way), and the right to thump their wives? (Divinely sanctioned domestic abuse – charming!) not to mention the taking of 4 wives, regardless of how the previous wife/wives felt about it! The simple quick cruel divorce granted to men, as opposed to the long drawn out process if a women wants to divorce etc etc etc etc…..the list goes on.
“Single-issue campaigns end up focusing on one thing and one thing only, ultimately they end up ignoring or barely noticing the insidious injustices around them, which aren’t directly linked to their one-issue campaign.”
So, as you are such a concerned citizen, I assume that you have such a multiple issue blog, where you are addressing all these ‘insidious injustices’? Or are you just here resenting the fact that a woman actually hates the restrictions on her life imposed by the Islamic authorities solely on account of her gender?
“My brotherly advice would be for the owner of this blog and other like minded individuals/groups to cease viewing themselves as a woman only, but as a human being first and foremost”.
!Amazing! Ha ha, are you totally blind, or just as insensitive as a rock!?? How can the the owner of this blog possibly see herself as a human being first, and a woman second, when every act and intent of Saudi government is to focus on her gender and use it to deny her the right to function as an equal human being!
Take a further look around the muslim world and see if the womenfolk are capable of just thinking of themselves as human beings first and women second! No, they’re not! Even the simplest and most natural thing as the innate desire to relieve their discomfort on a hot and humid day, and wear fewer, lighter clothes with short sleeves or allow the breeze to blow over their bare neck and shoulders is forbidden! Muslim women are forever women first and human beings second or even third or fourth, after being wives, mothers, servants. Their wombs are their prison sentence!
I often think the worst fate in the world is to be born into a conservative muslim family as a female, in a muslim majority country. Your fate then is sealed and in the hands of your menfolk, your potential talents and gifts probably very unlikely to be realized. And I know what I’m talking about, having experienced it all first-hand.
أتمنى من الأخت الفاضلة الاستمرار على نهج الكتابة بالعربية قدر ما استطاعت
على فرض أن الغرض من الكتابة هو التغيير – الايجابي بطبيعة الحال
الكتابة بالانجليزية مفيدة لسببين في نظري: لأنها تحرج أصحاب القرار السياسي من “الفضائح” الموجودة في البلد فتدفع بهم الى التغيير. و قد تدفع بهم الى اسكات هذا الصوت مما يجعل الانجليزية و اهتمام الاعلام الأجنبي ضرورة أمنية لأهل “التفكير الحر” من المدونين – خصوصا ذوو الاهتمام السياسي
لكن، اذا كنت تتحدثين مع منهم مثلك في مستوى التعليم بلغة غريبة عن باقي الناس- مثل رواد هذه المدونة، الذين هم اما أجانب أو عرب منفتحين على الاخر نوعا ما لاتقانهم لغة أجنبية – ماذا استفدنا؟ لا شيء. راوح مكانك
محتوى المدونة اجتماعي، من الأجدى مخاطبة المجتمع مباشرة بدل التعليق عليه بلغة أجنبية
ذيك ملحوظة جانبية
تعليقي على الموضوع أني ضد النقاب قلبا و قالبا، و ضد الغاء وجود المرأة في المجتمع، و ضد الزواج التقليدي الغبي، مع أن جميع النساء من حولي يلبسنه
كون النقاب موروث لا يجعله صحيح، و كونه ديني مختلف عليه من ناحية النص، و غير مختلف على تحريمه من ناحية العقل
لكن نحن ولدنا لكي نقلد اباءنا
لماذا حذفت الصفحة عن “الأبطال السعوديين” بتاريخ ١٨ اغسطس
saudi heroes?
Nasser Asiri is right. If a woman can have freedom to not wear a niqab she can also have freedom to wear one. A lot of articles on this blog have been written for the sake of name and fame. Once you get a lot of publicity it is hard to be honest and unbiased.
If a website has a large audience, it is their moral responsibility to be ethical and unbiased to the readers.
I think it should be a woman’s choice. Though I do believe that it hinders a woman from doing alot of things. They (saudis)should just let women wear niqab or not like the other arab countries in the region. They are just putting too much emphasis on women being the root of all the evil should they not cover up and the men go *wild*. Just a bunch of B#$%!!
Can I say that as a Muslim woman who has lived half her life in Saudi Arabia and half in a western country… I have never felt more free, more respected and more equal to other human beings then I have here.
Not once have I been sexually harrassed regardless of whatever I wear in public while my experience in saudi(Jeddah to be specific), I have been sexually harassed almost everytime I stepped out of my house with my dad that too.
So people who come here and say that western media is making women an object.. I would say nuthing makes you more of an object then taking your identity away from you by making you a black dot walkin on the street.
As for this blog, I cant applaud the courage of the writer enough for rising against the norm in a country like Saudi arabia. Its truly a breath of fresh air.
It is apples and Oranges. Many of us are confused about their daily life issues and while trying to find a solution go from extreme to extreme. Yes every nation and government has its rights to shape its norms and values as they see them fit. So we can’t hold a debate while one is talking about one society and other is talking about another. I don’t know anyone who disagrees the rule of respecting people’s laws if you’re a GUEST. That means if you aren’t European Union citizen, while you may have an opinion about the matter, you have a very little right to tell the French what to do. People like Saudis and Emirates may have something to say as they generally give billions of dollars worth of contracts to the french and a single person of their citizens shop $4 million in one day in Paris (it is a fact). But if you aren’t a guest you can fight for a change as the blogger is doing in Saudia and we are doing in EU. Here in Europe we don’t concern the law itself as much as the rest of the world since we know this is an election day window dressing by the French president but the pattern because once you say one thing is OK you will not be asked other things. I’m sure this blogger, Saudi Woman, hates when people generalize Muslims, Arabs, Saudis or women. She is fighting for some civil rights while taking away others. We helped creating the French law that forbids the force of the veil, but we told them that we are against its restrictions. Is it a security problem? sometimes and some places, YES but let the woman understand it and allow her to make a choice. We can point our deficiencies all day but The key is how to build on what is good and change what is bad, not from bad to bad.
90-year-old Saudi to get 100 lashes</b:
http://www.emirates247.com/news/region/90-year-old-saudi-to-get-100-lashes-2010-08-31-1.285963
حملة للمطالبة بتوظيف الخريجات
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته ….
أرجوا من الأخوات والأخوان الانضمام إلى الحملة ونصرتنا في قضيتنا والمساعدة في نشرها في المنتديات والقروبات على رابطة الحملة على الفيس بوك
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=141642169192083
وعلى صحيفة صدى الالكترونية بأضافة ردودكم ……. على الرابط
http://www.slaati.com/inf/news.php?action=show&id=15016
Here is my view of nigab.
If a person is to be invisible in all public spaces and can do all sort of things without anybody knowing that person’s identity wouldn’t that person be more inclined to do wrong things?! I think wearing nigab makes a women invisible she can behave in bad manners publicly without fearing anybody knowing her, she can do all sort of things and go wherever she pleases because with no identity there is no accountability.
Here is my view of nigab.
If a person were to be invisible in all public spaces and can do all sort of things without anybody knowing that person’s identity wouldn’t that person be more inclined to do wrong things?!
I think wearing nigab makes a women invisible. She can behave in bad manners publicly without fearing anybody knowing her, she can do all sort of things and go wherever she pleases and for all I can care she can easily commit crimes because with no identity there is no accountability.
Commit like what crimes? A woman to be able to do all sorts of things is the idea but what crime can she do with niqab that she can’t do without it?
Thanks
this exact view is what makes me doubt what ever noble reason is behind the band. A criminal can always cover their faces when they want, Niqab has nothing to do with it, all the security issues are allegations with no solid background.
It’s Islam that they have a problem with and not a small peace of cloth (Niqab)
إنني أضحك حزناً عندما أسمع من يقول إن النقاب يشكل “خطراً أمنياً”!!!ـ
كيف يكون خطراً أمنياً والمرأة المنقبة لا تتردد في التجاوب مع السلطات متى ما طُلب منها كشف وجهها والتأكد من هويتها.. وتلاحظ ذلك كثيراً في المطارات والجامعات ونقاط التفتيش وغير ذلك.. أين الخطر في ذلك؟؟
ثم لو كان النقاب خطراً -كما يزعم البعض- فهل ستظل القوة العظمى أمريكا تسمح به حتى الآن.. وهي التي تفعل المسموح به وغير المسموح به من أجل الحفاظ على أمنها بعد أحداث سبتمبر أيلول؟ فهل أمريكا مغفلة لهذا الحد لتترك المرأة تلبس ما تشاء؟؟
على فكرة.. وبناء على ذريعة “الخطر الأمني” هذه.. سيتم منع الاحتفال بعيد الهلاوين هذا العام! لأن معظم الشعب في ذلك اليوم يرتدون ملابس تنكرية كثير منها يغطي كامل الوجه.. وفي ذلك خطر كبير يهدد الأمن القومي!!!ـ
القاعدة الجميلة هذه تنسحب أيضاً على كل من يغطي وجهه في البلد_ بما في ذلك راكبي الدراجات النارية، والأطباء، والممرضين، وعمال النظافة، والقائمة تطول!ـ
والله عيب!ـ
😦
I like this website. It has many good information’s
I have lived for 30 years in Saudi Arabia. I’ve been harassed most of the times I got out although I wore niqab. I felt like a sex toy all the time, with men (especially Saudis) ogling me all the time. Anyone who says that women are respected in Saudi Arabia or any Arab country is delusional. Women here are harassed, abused and treated like 3rd class citizens.
There’s a “short”, a brief video-documentary about women in western culture. It’s an Italian short and for the moment is available only in italian. But I advise all of you to watch it (www.ilcorpodelledonne.net).
The point is not what kind of dress a woman to put on. A miniskirt, a niqab, a jeans.. No. The point of matter is not so superficial, but absolutely deeper. When a woman will to be worth a man our dress will not be the subject of the conversation.
All over the world, west or east. It’s the same.
Hisham says —> “In America, when two women apply for the same job, who usually is likely to be hired, the beautiful or the ugly? No question about it. Now that “objectifies” women, doesn’t it?”
This what is known as a Straw-Man Argument — falls apart or blows away quickly in the slightest wind. First off, the main point that you’re missing here is that in America, women CAN and DO actually WORK. No one is forbidding us and we don’t need to “get a written note from a male guardian” to do so.
You need to join the 21st Century. You can even join the 20th Century if ya like and you’d still be ahead of where you are right now… sheeesh!
Second point is this… Many working American women, like me for example, actually DO the hiring in our companies. As a woman, I’m not as likely to hire the beauty over the brains.
Hisham — “Oh yea, by the way, Western nuns cover from head to toe because they devote themselves to God, right? But Muslim women do the same because they are definitely oppressed!”
I can’t remember the last time I saw a nun covered head to toe, at least in America. Besides, the choice for a woman to become a nun, no matter what the dress code, is a CHOICE. No one is forcing any women to become nuns and as far as I know, what they wear is not at all like Saudi women in full covering niqab. Nuns, like all women, freely choose to do what they are doing, again, without required “notes from the men,” to move about freely in the world. Nuns can drive, go to the grocery store, visit friends and family, travel freely, go the Church, work, etc. And you know why that is??? BECAUSE IN AMERICA, ALL PEOPLE, WOMEN AND MEN, NUNS OR NOT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR. Adults, whether male or female are expected to know right from wrong and live accordingly. Simple, easy stuff.
Unfortunately for you and for Saudi Arabia, the niqab IS, like many things, FORCED upon women. In a nutshell it tells the rest of the FREE world three things:
–Women can not be who they are and are invisible.
–Saudi Men can not control themselves.
–The burden of Saudi men to control themselves falls upon the WOMAN.
The free world and yes, America, proves you so wrong every minute of every day.
oumaisha says –>> “you’re right, it’s important that mothers educate their sons properly, and teach them how to respect women, also to see them as their equals, this is what Islam teaches us, men should lower their gaze and not see women as prey.”
Right, it’s the fault of the women, yet again… now let’s put the burden on the “Mothers.” HOW exactly, would you suggest that the Moms educate their sons properly when in the “Islamic State” the other half of the population, the men, the government, the penal system and the religious police all work really hard to teach men that they are superior to women and that women must be treated like children in all aspects of their lives?
If you want to get your fill of lightly clad, extraordinary dancing athletes check this out: America’s Ballroom Challenge: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/ballroomchallenge/index-embed.html
Note that men and women of every age, ethnicity and gender are sitting together in the audience, while hard-body competitors are dancing in revealing, skin-tight costumes, just enjoying showing their skills to the world.
Everywhere in this world men and women are together, every day.
No problem at all!
While Muslim women are treated like so much purchased meat, ready to be discarded like trash when another, younger one, packaged in yet another laundry bag comes along.
Can you see it?
The Saudi Ballroom Challenge where guys in dresses shove women in sacks around to the music.
@ Margarete & Anna,
– – –
What do you know about the Saudi people anyway? You don’t even have a first hand experience about them. All you know about Saudis is few articles written by biased media or Westernized Saudis. You overgeneralize few mischievous practices by a bunch of teenagers whose minds are corrupted by your hollywood movies!
Take few REAL facts about the “average” Saudi women:
– Before marriage, they live in huge palaces, wear the most fancy clothes, wear the most expensive makeups, have their private drivers, do shopping every weekend from the most luxurious shopping malls, go to college, and are always provided with everything they need. All that is provided to them by their fathers and it’s their responsibility alone to support the daughters financially till they get married.
– After marriage, it is the husband responsibility to pay the dowry, buy a house or rent an apartment, furnish it, and afford living for his wife and whatever she needs from A to Z for the rest of his life. Moreover, women will have their own housemaid, their own private driver, and they will WORK as teachers, doctors, bankers, and the list goes on. Have you seen luxury better than this??
– When they become mothers and grandmothers, they even have more rights than before. Their sons have to respect them and always obey their commands. Their kids and grand kids greet them with a kiss on the forehead and hand day and night. Their sons and daughters surround them all the time and always buy them gifts at no occasions.
I assure you, the majority of Saudi women like the lifestyle they have, and prefer the habits and customs they grow up with. Wearing decent clothes and being taken care by males does not mean women are submissive; it actually means they’re served and protected, just like queens.
I’m not saying our society is perfect, we have a lot to fix, just like any other society. But I noticed that when you talk about Arabs and Saudis, you generalize the worst examples and pretend to know everything about us; whereas when I talk about the West, although I have lived in the US and parts of Europe for more than three years, you insist that my views about the West are taken from TV!
I never needed your opinion about our Muslim and Saudi culture, because our values and beliefs are definitely “different” than yours, but you don’t seem to accept that fact. You simply want us to be “copies” of yourselves as if your lifestyle is the best example for humanity!
*Last request: when you reply, please avoid using offensive dictions (such as: chauvinist, pig, neanderthals, hypocrite, etc.). We’re just discussing cultural stuff here in a respected website, no need for street talk!
Peace.
Hisham — first off, I didn’t call you or anyone any names so let’s be clear about that.
You said —> “I never needed your opinion about our Muslim and Saudi culture, because our values and beliefs are definitely “different” than yours, but you don’t seem to accept that fact. You simply want us to be “copies” of yourselves as if your lifestyle is the best example for humanity! ”
I never said that either. No one is saying to copy anything or anyone. What I do detest is the clear and distinct lack of respect and LOVE for women in your society.
Answer me one question — Is the recent event of GIRLS LEFT TO DIE IN A BURNING SCHOOL DUE TO LACK OF CORRECT COVER — true or false? Real or made up?
You speak of laying luxuries at the feet of your women as defining your society while failing to acknowledge the gross wrongs — crimes even — that are committed against these very women.
Yes, I’d say you are correct — my values are very different from yours. I value all human lives, not just the male lives.
“Wearing decent clothes and being taken care by males does not mean women are submissive; it actually means they’re served and protected, just like queens.”
Who served and protected the girls who died in that burning school building?
That single event speaks volumes and is far more defining than your description of women living luxuriously in SA. I guess all is well — but only as long as one is ALLOWED to live… right?
Margaret you are not free, you’re a little bitch and Islamophobic and an ideology of civil liberties if a girl wants to be veiled is his right and his freedom.
If your girls want to do the hookers in the windows of Amsterdam’s your problem and this is how liberty is a woman is treated as an object, stop dirtying our religion and sisters who choose to be veiled Allah , there is no lesson to receive from a bitch.
Racism in the U.S.
A young employee of Moroccan origin has filed a complaint against the Disneyland in Anaheim, southern California. Imane Boudlal worked for two years in a restaurant in the park. But recently, she came head covered with a veil.
“Management told me,” she says, we can provide you with a hat or something. I was totally shocked. What does it mean, a hat or something? Let me just wear my hijab. Then they said, either you are working in kitchens, or you go home. “Disney uses a longstanding anti-discrimination, corrects Suzi Brown, Disney, and we work with our employee to find a satisfactory solution. ”
This case is a new controversy over the Muslim religion, after the issue of the construction of a mosque near Ground Zero.
Mouloud
”Margaret you are not free, you’re a little bitch and Islamophobic and an ideology of civil liberties if a girl wants to be veiled is his right and his freedom.
If your girls want to do the hookers in the windows of Amsterdam’s your problem and this is how liberty is a woman is treated as an object, stop dirtying our religion and sisters who choose to be veiled Allah , there is no lesson to receive from a bitch.”
How charming! LOL
Yet another rude, filthy mouthed Muslim-male, one who knows all about the whores of Amersterdam, and no doubt has used their services; one who calls western women “bitches” if they assert their equality and that Islam is nothing but oppression to women while its males nothing but supremacist-opressors who have nothing better to do with their miserable, unproductive little lives than to stomp on the rights of women.
What do you know about the great art and high culture of Amsterdam, one of the cornerstones of all civilization, my pathetic little man or do you only know about the filth of the world, like all too many Muslim supremacist males?
Bitches, sir are female dogs. Much better, more noble and preferred creatures than any pathetic, hate filled Muslim male supremacist who seeks only to debase women and place them into walking prisons.
Now run along, you sad little excuse for a man. Cretins like you are not wanted in the civilized world.
Once again we see a clueless Muslim, like Mouloud who believes that the world must bow to Islam’s mores instead of Muslims obeying the rules and laws of the host nation.
In the real world, where people actually work, for every job there is a uniform. If one works on Wall Street one must wear a suit; if one works for Disney one must wear a costume.
This woman certainly knew that when she was hired, yet, she chose to break the rules by wearing hijab. People who go to Disneyland want to experience a Disney fantasy, not an Islamic horror show.
Woman Files Complaint Against Disney Over Right to Wear Hijab
“Disney is an entertainment company — our theme parks and resorts are the stage and our costumed cast members are part of the show,”…”All cast members in costumed roles, regardless of their diverse beliefs, are expected to comply with our dress codes. When cast members, regardless of their religion, request exceptions to our policies for religious reasons, we work hard to make reasonable accommodations. These have included modifications to costumes where appropriate, placement in different roles when needed, and consideration in scheduling for religious services and holy days.”
Brown’s statement continued, “Examples of costume modifications include accommodating religious head wear with hats, substituting skirts for pants and lengthening skirt hems to cover ankles. We have also provided many cast members with roles that do not require them to wear a costume.”
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/20/muslim-woman-files-complaint-disney-right-wear-hijab/
The woman was given a choice, to wear the costume or take a “back-stage” job. Instead, the Muslim rule breaker chose to sue.
Sadly, accommodation is not good enough for Muslims, even if they know the rules ahead of time. They want to break the rules of non Islamic countries and bring in their own.
Now, what if a woman went to Saudi Arabia and decided that she didn’t like the rules of wearing abaya or gender separation? What if she decided to go where she wanted, when she wanted, without the black cover just as she can most anywhere in the world?
Could she sue for discrimination or racism after she was arrested and perhaps even beaten by the muttawa? 😉
Here, the motivation of this blog to attract flies and shit troll like Thomas, Margaret, Anna And Many Other’s and daughters of bitches insult to Arab culture – Muslim, ET Has A Lot of girl in hijab Outside of Saudi Arabia Who Have Emancipated more freedom and more Than your bitches Who are perverted and in places for swingers night club, I am not talking about homosexual marriages beurkkk at you should “Take That technology, the morals issue Remains Is To throw in the trash. !!!!!! .
Wow. Mouloud, my brother, I am one of those western “bitches” that you seem to revile. I am an American Muslim woman married to a Saudi man. We have 4 beautiful children together. I am a fan of women not feeling coerced from youth to wear a burka, but rather given the option if they choose. And as for harassment–I get more here in Saudi Arabia as a blond haired green eyed westerner–whether I cover or not—than I EVER did in the United States. As a Muslim, I leave the judgment to God. Homosexual marriages, swingers clubs, and other things that most all religions state they are against are the acts of consenting adults who ultimately, on earth and in heaven, must pay the consequences. What they do behind bedroom doors is not for me to judge. I don’t care. I have too much to do being a good wife; a good mother; a good daughter and a good friend to devote a lot of time hating people for their differences. I, a western “bitch,” seem to have more love in her heart, even for conservative Wahhabi Muslims who do not credit me with the same abilities and intellegence as a male, than a “good Mulsim man” like yourself. For shame, sir. For shame. Shame on you. Let others live and let God judge. You have a right to your opinion, but your vituperative hatred of the West and the western women and culture, with which you seem only partially acquanited, shines through and screams with a lack of objectivity.
I wish that it were not haram to meet someone like you so that you could see that I, a “bitch” in your eyes, is no more than human. Fallable, funny, loving and completely imperfect. The day I acheive perfection is the day when I hate radical Muslim extremists; homosexuals; hookers in Amsterdam, and all facets of an Arab culture that subjugates women. Since that day will undoubtedly never come, I believe it is most fair of me to believe what I believe, let others do the same, and POLITELY decide what I like and don’t like; and what I will and won’t put up with in a society. Whether it be a burka, prostitues, veils, or domineering men. I would like the choice to avoid them all, or embrace them all, and deal with the consequences without someone judging me and spewing hatred in the wings. Can you respect that sir? Can you try and understand that? I would respectfully suggest you read the Quran, realize people are not perfect like Mohammed (PBUH), and accept the fallabilities of other humans. Regardless of religion, people have been the same for centuries, and are not likely to become perfect religious entities any time soon. Avoid people you don’t like or agree with, but try not to hate them and resent the differences.
Uh, uh!
Looks like someone didn’t take their meds today.
Music and art therapies will help get the troubled, sex obsessed mind off sleaze.
funny, jason!! lol
@splendid Sarah,
Thanks for reading my blog!! I just try to have fun, although I have a sailor mouth. As for my husband, I absolutely adore him. I feel lucky to have him in my life. I acutally, believe it or not, am a person who takes my own advice!!! Lol. Or tries to. The family issues have been horrendous for both of us—me and my husband. From his family though, not mine, I’m proud to say. What I mean by taking my own advice is I try and not judge EVERYONE by the transgressions of the few with whom I’ve come in contact, and with whom I have not gotten along or respected. Mouloud should try it, too. Yes, there are awful Arabs, and crazy, controlling Muslim men, but there are also sweet, non-judgmental ones as well. There are vicious, bigoted ignorant Saudi women, for whom no one will be good enough, but there are fabulous, sweet, open-minded and fun ones, too. I’ve been savvy enough to keep my eyes open to both sides of the court (so to speak) and not allow myself to be BLINDED, like poor Mouloud, into believing that eastern philosophy means only racism, religious fervor and domineering men; and western philosophy and society means Only These Things–sex, perversion, loose morals, and poor, excessive behavior. Such short-sightedness is not something I want to be guilty of. I love many aspects of Arab culture–the hospitality, the music (where allowed of course), the food, and so many appreciative lovely people that I have met….
As a nurse, let me tell you how many “Mutawa” men have come on to me in the hospital (again, whether I am covered or not); how many drunk princes I’ve seen or heard of treated for liver failure by excessive lifestyles; how many phone numbers I’ve been given by these “good Muslim Saudi Men” behind their wives backs. For Mouloud, I will tell him this: when no married, pseudo-religious man comes on to me, ever again here in Saudi, THEN will I concede that the Eastern philosophy has it all over the Western one. When no man in Saudi uses a prostitute; when no man in Saudi looks at illegally gotten satellite porn; when no man in Saudi cheats on his wife; and when women are treated with TRUE respect as equals, THEN I will concede that the East has it all over the West. Basically when there is no more hypocrisy in Saudi, I will concede Saudi’s superior lifestyle and religious mindset. since that will NEVER, EVER happen, I’m not going to concede anything.
For Mouloud, a little FYI—MEN here in Saudi are sex symbols. Men in the west are sex symbols, too. So I guess both our coutnries are expoloitive. Why doesn’t anyone mention this, I wonder? I guess women just don’t feel lust, being sub-human and all. Lol.
Anyhow, I ignore (or really try to) the awful people that are in the circumference in my life. I have the full support of my Saudi husband. And I use this country as it uses me. I provide excellent care to patients, and this country pays me well. Very symbiotic!! I get lots of help with my kids so that I can enjoy them all instead of feeling burdened–which in itself is worth it weight in gold. My husband gets to reconnect with family members that are NOT awful jerks, and our kids get to have those people enrich their lives. Like anything, I take the good with the bad. And when I can no longer tolerate Saudi, and Saudi can no longer tolerate me, we will part ways.
And I’m trying to keep things fun! that’s how I deal, Sarah. Thanks for asking!
@ Lissaana, who says:
“Yes, there are awful Arabs, and crazy, controlling Muslim men, but there are also sweet, non-judgmental ones as well. There are vicious, bigoted ignorant Saudi women, for whom no one will be good enough, but there are fabulous, sweet, open-minded and fun ones, too.”
– – – –
sounds like it’s the case in every society, isn’t it?
And the question remains: why do they always associate anything that’s Saudi, Arabic, or Muslim with violence, extremism, hatred, and every evil u can think of? while always, on the other scale, associate everything peaceful, tolerant, loving, caring etc. to the Western & American worlds?
Lissaana.. thank you for ur “moderate” open-minded replies. Few will like them here though 🙂
Hi Hicham,
Well, being acquainted with Saudis first-hand (and then some!!!), I have to say a couple of things. About the veil. The only thing that bothers me about that is that it is NOT a free choice, in the sense that women have always been free to choose, without social pressures of ANY KIND, and have simply chosen to don a veil, after interpreting their religion, on their own, and doing so. We both know that simply isn’t true at all, especially here in Saudi. There is a HUGE negative social stigma that women here are aware of from a pre-school age about failing to wear the abaya AND a veil AND a burka, depending upon how conservative your family is. Meaning that if you don’t wear it, you are not a good Muslim girl, not modest, you are embarrassing the family, etc. etc.
I was at Danube with an Arab girlfriend, and we saw this 6 year old girl wearing an abaya. I was shocked–abayas are for “women” who have reached puberty and can have children. Not a 6 year old. Was she a sexy 6 year old? Is that why her parents bought her an abaya? I thought that this line of thought was just vile. Well, no. My friend said, “Oh, that’s just so she’ll get used to wearing it when she’s older.” Ahem……coercion, anyone? So, the pressure begins for women to cover up at a very young age. That kind of pressure, from your own family as well as from a conservative society in general, is not, Hicham my friend, anything close to free.
My friend Muneera (another Saudi!!) wears a burka. I asked her if she could ever take it off. She said, “No, not in Riyadh. Or jeddah. But when I leave Saudi I take it off. We take them off for vacations overseas.” Again, coercive society? I think so. Where is her feeling of having a choice in Saudi? She has a choice “overseas” but pressures at home by her father and of her acquaintances in general in Saudi prevent her from feeling “free” to remove her covering.
That’s what bothers me. If Muneera’s father, from a very young age said, “My dear, as far as I’m concerned you do not have to cover. If you choose to, fine. If not, fine. I will love and respect you either way.” I think many women would choose not to cover. Case in point the airplane scenario I mentioned above in a different post. Most Hicham, MOST of the women take off their coverings when leaving Saudi!! Everytime I am on an international flight I witness this phenomenon!!
We are covered, not men. The reason being for our own protection—from YOU!! Lol. Apparently, men in Saudi have decided that they are infantile and without control around women when they are in Saudi, but when abroad, it is amazing that they aren’t ripping women’s clothing off right and left! And we, the temptresses, are forced to wear stifling hot covers (black of all things) so that we don’t tempt you, because you are weak and we are tantalizing. Funny, I feel lust too. I find men VERY tantalizing. And it is extremely easy for me to meet men, and ostensibly to “pick them up,” yet I don’t….hmmm…..why is that?
Oh, a little thing I like to call “responsibility for my actions and self-control.” So you Hicham, are safe from me!! Although you may be a very tantalizing male, I will restrain myself and not molest you!! Lol. And you don’t have to wear special coverings for protection, because I am a responsible grownup, who knows that touching another human without permission is not appropriate.
So, if a girl has an equal chance of wearing a veil or burka, and an equal chance of NOT wearing it in a society, then in that case I would say she is free to choose. And that is not Saudi Arabia. So many of my Saudi girlfriend complain, saying “If men had to wear this scarf and a black robe in the middle of summer, I bet things would change in a hurry!! I hate having to wear this thing!” They are adjusting and re-adjusting the scarf; they have a difficult time eating or drinking with a burka; they are sweating profusely and hot and uncomfortable; all because of you Hicham. You men. You men deciding that you are too weak to respect a woman who deserves respect, and you can only control yourself if she is swathed in black.
I guess they have learned self-control in Lebanon, Egypt, Dubai, Bahrain, Syria, and so on. But not Saudi Arabia, the country of the 2 holy mosques.
As far as associating violence, extremism, hatred and evil in the east and love and whatnot in the west, well…….idiots are educated in the media. The media sells sensationalism. And emotional extremes need to be generated to evoke interest. It’s utter nonesense. No Saudis that I know of have any interest in hurting Americans or anyone else, and are completely against terrorists and other truly evil individuals who pervert Islam for their own agenda and personal gain and power.
I don’t think peaceful is associated with America—the Swiss, probably…..lol. But we ARE more tolerant than Saudi. I’m sorry but it is true. I’m living proof, my friend. And there IS more freedom in the west to do as you choose than in Saudi, and many other parts of the middle east. But I hate the way news stories only play up the bad stuff about Islam, and Saudi, and other countries. It’s unfair but it sells ads. And people fall for it. This leads to a climate of fear and hostility and misunderstanding. Terrible.
Anyhow, my vote is for education, tolerance, gender equality, and no social-religious pressure to conform for men or women……But I have a feeling this election is already lost!!!
@ Lissaana,
Well, most of the little girls with abayas actually are the ones who annoyingly asked their parents to buy those abayas for them, and they wear them very proudly imitating their mothers and older sisters. so, usually nobody even ask them to wear them. that’s a cultural note 🙂
Regarding women who change their hijab style when travelling abroad, well the majority of those (my wife is one of them) do that not because they hate niqab, but because they know that abroad they will attract more attention with black abaya & niqab than any other dress, whereas in Saudi, abaya & niqab is the norm, so they prefer wearing them. But at the end of the day, both dresses are decent and revealing no beauties, and that what matters.
Now, a quick question: if any parents wish to upbring their kids in a certain way and according to their beliefs and values, do they have the right to do so?
Looks like Hisham didn’t actually read what Lissaana wrote. He should check out her blog for a first-hand report on the doings in Saudia. While there may be some very nice people, the fact remains that most of the population supports the current, gender apartheid system. If they didn’t it would have been changed long ago.
”why do they always associate anything that’s Saudi, Arabic, or Muslim with violence, extremism, hatred, and every evil u can think of?”
I might, just might have something to do with the countless human rights violations and the actual daily violence, child marriage/rapes and general hypocrisy of Arab-Saudi, Muslim culture.
No matter how many times they claim to be so much better, the actual statistics, be these economic, technological, scientific or humanitarian, prove otherwise: http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=oman
Perpetual Minors
Human Rights Abuses Stemming from Male Guardianship and Sex Segregation in Saudi Arabia
http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2008/04/19/perpetual-minors-0
“Through its ratification of the UN Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) in 2001, Saudi Arabia assumed the obligation to take action to end discrimination against women in all its forms. [111] The convention obliges Saudi Arabia “to pursue by all appropriate means and without delay a policy of eliminating discrimination against women” including “any distinction, exclusion or restriction made on the basis of sex which has the purpose of impairing or nullifying the recognition, enjoyment or exercise by women … of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, civil or any other field.” [112]”
[112] CEDAW, art. 1.
http://www.hrw.org/en/node/62251/section/7
Not that Saudi Arabia cares about respecting any treaty or international laws to which they have put their signature.
Many a woman has been literally held prisoner in Saudi Arabia.
Trapped in Saudi Arabia
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/05/07/trapped-saudi-arabia
In the west people are arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned for human rights abuses. In Saudia Arabia they are lauded for them because men are deemed superior to women.
II. Human Rights Violations Resulting from Male Guardianship and Sex Segregation
Denying Women the Right to Education
Denying Women the Right to Employment
Denying Women the Right to Health
Denying Women the Right to Equality before the Law..
Denying Women the Right to Freedom of Movement
Denying Women the Right to Equality in Marriage
Those are all just par for the course and very “Islamic” in KSA according to the religious establishment, the government and many citizens who support the status quo. Giving women equal rights would be following the example of the kufur.
The question is, if there are so many good people in Saudi Arabia, WHY have they not changed these abuses? “These things take time,” is a mealy-mouthed excuse for oppression to continue.
Lissaana ”…when women are treated with TRUE respect as equals, THEN I will concede that the East has it all over the West. Basically when there is no more hypocrisy in Saudi, I will concede Saudi’s superior lifestyle and religious mindset. since that will NEVER, EVER happen, I’m not going to concede anything.”
I agree with Lissaana. I doubt that things will ever change. The Arab is very afraid of change.
Speaking of child abuse… let’s not forget Saudi parents forcing young girl children into marriage — for their own profit no less.
All illegal and highly punishable in the West. Quite simply because it is extremely abusive and destructive to the child in every way. From the complete abandonment of the parents who, in most societies PROTECT their children from such harm, to the forcible placement into the arms of a male adult who should also know far better.
Hi @Hicham,
“Now, a quick question: if any parents wish to upbring their kids in a certain way and according to their beliefs and values, do they have the right to do so?”
Absolutely!! I am a huge fan of parents raising their children however they want. My problem is this: what if the child doesn’t WANT to wear the abaya, or the burka, or the hijab at some point? Will the family, and their society in general allow them the FREEDOM to refuse?
Again, not in Saudi. And you are right about the hijab and veil—in the west it can attract more attention for a woman in certain areas. But my sister-in-law wears hers when she visits the USA, and gets a lot of compliments!! Lol. They love the way she wraps her scarf, I guess. I can tell you that after 9/11, when innocent people were hurt buy vengeful morons who “appeared” to be Mulsim, American society has become much more uninterested in who wears what. Is she Indian? Muslim? Most people in the USA come into contact with various ethnic groups all the time, and don’t care whether your wife wears a hijab or not.
So such fear, perpetuated by a bored media, is mostly unfounded. And since 85% of our body heat is released through our very vascular head, and wrapping our head traps this heat, I have no doubt your wife feels cooler and more comfortable unwrapped!! Lol. It is simply physics.
@Mouloud, what you are seeing is called an avatar. I am guessing you disapprove because it is an attractive avatar, and you can see cartoon skin. Well, that is about as provocative as I’m interested in being. I chose it because it looks very much like me. Long medium brown hair, green eyes, same figure. But it would not help anyone pick me out of a crowd, so I am sort of anonymous. My husband has no problem with it, and I think you shouldn’t either, but that is your decision. PBU you!!
@Hicham, One more thing:
I recently read a FABULOUS story in the Arab news online. It was about a Saudi family who helped their Philipino maid get excellent medical treatment, paid her expenses, released her from her work contract, helped her get back to the Phillipines, and gave her some money so that she wouldn’t suffer financially when she arrived home, convalescing. Why is it that I only hear this ONE story of how well a worker was treated?
You know why—because nice doesn’t sell. Well, it sold me!! I could read stories like this ALL DAY. The sad fact it that all we hear are the ones of abuse, human rights violations, etc. We don’t hear about employers like me: who give our maid from Kenya brand new clothes from America for her 2 year old daughter. The same clothes I give my own kids. The extra money we give her all the time so she can save for a little house. The new furniture and nice things we buy so she lives as well as we do, like a decent human being and not a “mere servant.” The complete and total lack of abuse she receives at our hands, both emotional and physical. And on, and on. Anyone snoring yet? Lol.
Nice just isn’t interesting. My suggestion to anynone who reads a human rights violation story about the Arab world, go to a local newspaper online in America and see how many complaints are filed with OUR department of labor for not being paid; how many kids and wives are STILL abused; how difficult it is STILL, to prosecute a rape case in the USA, and on, and on…..
Yes, the west defintely defends human rights betters than Saudi Arabia. And yes, the west defends women’s rights better, too. That’s not really my point. My point is it would be nice to take the GOOD with the BAD, but all we are ever fed is the BAD. It is a bitter diet, that makes people bitter.
I can’t really even read the news anymore, it is so depressing. And so full of crap.
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Hisham,
By the end of the day, everyone here is rooting for freedom of choice for women.
Here in Canada, my mum wears hijab and goes out without any fear. I on the other hand, wear anything from shorts to bikinis without any fear.
Even then, in a country like canada, we recently had a case of honor killing of a young teenager cuz she refused to wear hijab. Her father and brther were so bothered by it that they suffocated her to death. Why? because the hijab and what not strips a womans identity and puts the responsibility of “HONOR” of the whole society on womens shoulders. Women should now cover up so “evil” doesnt spread in society cuz now they are not regular human beings but the reason for “make or break” of society.
Recently when they pushed to introduce sharia law in Canada for muslims.. guess who protested it the most? WOMEN! Muslim women did not want sharia law to be approved in Canada… doesnt that say a LOT about what women think of sharia and its rules for women?
Most muslim women might not say it but they are thinking it, that they are treated as 3rd class citizens. Whether you agree or not is your problem.
As for being treated as a queen, I as a muslim woman rather be a poor free human being then be a caged bird wearing jewels.
Regards,
Fareeha
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