Saudi women driving movement

Every accusation imaginable has been thrown at Saudi women who spoke up for their right to drive their own cars. Sheikhs and ultra conservatives have created this intricate conspiracy theory on how this whole demand is a well-planned Iranian/Shia plight to bring down the government by corrupting it’s women. Others have claimed that it is a Western conspiracy because somehow the Christian/Jewish West know deep down that Islam is the right path but they need to corrupt Muslim women through using their own women as an example. According to their logic, somehow women driving cars will lead to the fall of Islam. Confusing, I know, but nevertheless quite emotional and effective when presented in a religious context of salvation and preserving our faith and morals in an evil world. Another issue that they have is a “gotcha” argument where they say if women really wanted to drive for the good of the country and independence then they would first have to prove it by giving up their maids. As if maids were a requirement and by law, Saudi women are banned from doing their own housework as they are from driving their cars?! Choice and freedom are two words that are not in the opposition’s vocabulary.

That was all expected, it’s the same rhetoric that is employed by the extreme right in opposing anything they don’t like. However what was surprising is that quite a few Saudis who are progressive and some activists as well are against the women driving campaign. Some have taken it as a matter of pride, that the women joining the campaign are exposing the country to international ridicule. Some are cynical about why Western media has given this issue so much attention. They say it’s just an oriental stereotype that these outlets are abusing for their own amusement. Such a clear black and white case of gender discrimination in the 21st century is really not worthy of anyone’s attention. And that a government would arrest women simply for driving a car is a “stereotype” and not actual incidents happening nationwide. Then they question why western media doesn’t consult Saudis on the Palestinian/Israeli conflict or why they don’t cover this or that.

They also are upset at Saudi women who have had to resort to Western media to present their case, instead of being upset at local media for not giving these women a platform. The day after June 17, our newspapers completely ignored the issue except for one report in one paper, Okaz, where the traffic police denied that there were any cases of women driving. This was despite the fact that traffic police issued a ticket to a woman, Maha Al Qahtani, for driving without a Saudi license on the very same day they claimed that there were no women drivers.

These same progressives and activists claim that the women driving their cars are going about it the wrong way and that they should go through official channels. It has obviously slipped their minds that Wajeha Al Huwaider and Ebtihal Mubarak  had delivered a petition to the Royal Court to lift the ban signed by over 3000 Saudis. They also must have forgotten when Dr. Mohmammed  Zalfa during his time on the Shura Council (closest thing to parliament in Saudi) presented a proposal to lift the ban in 2006 and received a huge social and professional backlash in return. Also Abdullah Al Alami, a journalist and activist has been trying for the past year to get the Shura Council to revisit the issue with no success. It’s very obvious that the official track is pretty worn out. Although we have still not lost hope and are persevering in its pursuit.

One example of such progressives is Tareq Al Homayed, who claimed in an article published on June 27 and translated to English the next day is that the Western media is out of touch.  And that they have been following misinformed social media hype. He claims that the women who drove on June 17th and after are fewer than those who protested the ban in 1990. When actually the 1990 protest was only fourteen cars that had 47 passengers, while from June 17th and onwards there have been about seventy documented cases of women driving. He also claimed that this issue was politicized by the campaign when in actuality the politicization of this basic right was by the extreme right with their accusations from decades ago until today that this is a foreign conspiracy and that women who call for this right are traitors. Finally he claims that the low number of women driving is a reflection of the campaign’s low priority for Saudi women. As if he wasn’t Saudi and does not understand how paralyzed with fear people are here when it comes to any form of public demonstrations.  For example we have thousands of political prisoners who are in prison indefinitely and without trial and yet at its height of the protest only 200 of their loved ones stood in front of the interior ministry to demand their release.

In an interview on a weekly discussion show, Suad Al Shammari, a leading Saudi women rights activist presented the following statistics: only 45000 Saudi women have licenses which they can only acquire from abroad, 40% of cars purchased in Saudi are purchased by women and that there are currently over a million and two hundred thousand foreign men brought into this country for the sole purpose of driving our cars instead of the women owners. FYI the Saudi population is 27,140,000 a third of which are foreign workers.

You would think that it’s a reflection of our wealth while in reality, 70% of Saudi do not have the financial resources to buy their own homes. The unemployment rate for women is over 28%, the majority of those unemployed women have graduate degrees. The unemployment rate for men too is high with two million registering for unemployment benefits.  So essentially many of these foreign drivers are here only due to the ban rather than the “luxurious Saudi lifestyle”.

The low number of women driving their cars is not due to the low number of women who care. The overwhelming majority of women do not know how to drive since Saudi driving schools ban women students and just practicing with your father or brother might end up with both of you with a criminal record. The low number is also because Saudi society shames women who publicly speak out against anything. As one Saudi woman who desperately needs to drive told me: “I will put up with importing a driver and a salary I can’t afford to pay, because otherwise my family would estrange me and people would drag my name in the mud.”

Recommended Reading:

The veil behind the wheel: Reuters report on being in the car with a woman activist who happens to be of a conservative Bedouin background.

An Arabic statement released today by Shiekh Abdullah Al Mutlaq, a member of the highest religious council in Saudi Arabia where he states that women driving is allowed in Islam however he likens it to allowing weapon trade which is also allowed in Islam but would have dangerous consequences on the security of the country and safety of society.

Another member of the highest religious council, Shiekh Qays Al Mubarak, surprisingly is being quite outspoken in this Arabic piece in the call for lifting the ban on women driving.


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407 responses to “Saudi women driving movement

  1. Despite expectations they had a huge amount of support, at least from saudi based media and social networks in English
    This issue , together with others, because as I understand it from their letter they have a general lack of respect complaint toward the saudi society , could have been solved with appealing to clinton and subaru
    They will be used same as the so called arab springs

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  3. Wael Alroumi

    Good write up. Thank you.

    Personally, I am on the verge of discrediting anything coming from the so called Ulma in the Religious Council. I honestly see no use to quote them. They have betrayed their trust.

    • abujubair

      Wael, you criticize the rulers as if you are an angel. The rulers have faults just as we, and you do.Would you want one of your brothers(if you are muslim) broadcasting your faults or making excuses for you. The latter is from the sunnah. Furthermore it is not permissible to broadcast the faults of the rulers except in certain instances where we have proof from Allah and his messenger, same with the average Muslim. Also the rulers of any country are from the people of that land, so therefore he (the ruler) is not far from the character, religion, and morals of his people. I would understand your complaints a lil better if the ruler was not from the people he governs over, like Mars, Saturn, or even if he was a kaafir. Look at your self first, plus no one on this blog has brought any Islaamic proof for the neeeeed for the women to drive, i said neeeeed, not desire, or Western based ideals.

      • Sandy

        The burden of proof is on forbiding something. Women rode camels and horses. Women were allowed to use transport. Where’s the Islamic reason for suddenly saying “no”?

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  5. Waj

    Sheikhs, ultra conservatives…..they of course have only one worry in mind…that if women drive it will be one step closer for the shift of the power to the people and them losing a big part of the grip they have on the masses through the exploitation of a deformed & manipulated version of Islam to control the country politically, economically & financially for their own purpose and how knows in the service of a bigger hidden purpose….It frustrates me as a Muslim and a human to see how the Saudi people in general are being abused on a daily basis….in the name of a wahabi conservative sect that so many readings I have done point it to part of a bigger plan well orchestrated 50 or more years ago…and with very suspicious origins of the Saudi family……and by them exploiting the wealth and diverting it from being spent on the true development on a country and what should be a role model leading progressive islamic nation… a life of double standards, fancy lifestyles costing hundreds of millions of dollars every month all across the globe defying every moral ground in the life they live………while the Saudi people do not enjoy the slightest of freedoms…..

  6. james

    The Saudi is a male dominated society.women driving is anathema to that they can go on exploiting and oppressing the foreign workers….and they do it in the name of Islam…. sadly the wahabis are mostly homosexuals and have the worst habits when they are visiting europe…

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  8. Osama Khalid

    Very, very excellent summery, Eman. Thank you.

    I just want to point out that Al-Hayat (another official newspaper in Saudi Arabia) actually reported about Maha’s ticket, which makes it the only paper that mentioned a true thing about the 17th of June campaign.

    Keep the good work!

  9. Same same

    Another great piece of your writing – factual, concise. Wonder what the newly created UN Women agency will do about this- finally, KSA is signatory party to CEDAW? As to the economic situation and disparities of many Saudis, the (Western) media should bring out the picture much clearer to their readers. It is a truly sad story in a country, which, seen its natural wealth, could create conditions for each and every one of its citizens to live her/his life to her/ his fullest potential.

  10. mohammed

    Islam gives the womaen many rights. i thank thed driving one of them .
    all the islamic world they drive thier cars.
    before she rided camel.
    Inislam notallowed to be alone with another man.

  11. Let the Saudi women drive: I support the campaign Women2drive
    I support the campaign Women2Drive, cause the right of driving that Saudi women are defending today, is the right to freedom and equality.
    This is what declares councilor Isabella Rauti (PDL) member of the Presidency Bureau of the Lazio regional Council.
    Saudi women that today are driving their own cars, infringing the 1991 Fatwa, are struggling to fully cooperate in work and social life: A right far more than symbolic because, being able to get the driver’s license and drive their own car, means the freedom to exercise their professional and familiar duties. The commitment of these women, not against but in favor of their own people, is a battle that must be supported and recognized, as well as we have to look with attention and interest in the leading role of women in Arab Spring.
    Women – Rauti concludes – are proving to be protagonists of change, able to weave new social models with the cultural identity of their country.

  12. brad c

    You also must give credit to the people who are having to change their beliefs and not reacting with anger and hate.

    • jean kimbrough

      As an outsider, but still deeply concerned with the right of any woman to be able to take a sick family member to get medical care. The every day needs of getting food and supplies for a family would be so much easier to do if the ability to drive were a given. Please reconcider Hhow could Islam or the prophets be displeased by giving women the right to meet their own needs to serve their families? Come into the modern world. Allow women the right to drive to serve their families better.

  13. s. A

    My opinion does not forward or holds it back. With all respect let say the government let’s my sisters driver cars it is going to solve the problems like unemployment or other thinks you know better than me. If the government let’s my sisters driver tomorrow picture with me how is going be the traffic. It is going be hell in the street. Keep in mind I am not against women driving cars…

    Thank you

    • Alicia

      Wouldn’t traffic be the same? She’s just driving the car that was previously being driven by someone else.

    • Ana

      Wslm. But if we banned the men from driving and allow the women to drive the traffic will still be the same.

      This is clear unequality and discrimination towards women. How is women driving against Islam? What is the real purpose behind this ban? Please, to anyone who supports the ban, please tell me why you do.

      p.s: Eman, great article. We need more writers like you.

      Thank you.

      (Remember, Allah knows what is in your hearts.)

    • Monica

      hallo s.A,
      you say if YOUR government let’s YOUR sisters driver tomorrow picture with you is going be the traffic and it’s going be hell in the streets. Well.. try to think : WE women all over the world let OUR brothers manage the WORLD. See the picture now: wars, social injustice, poverty. this is the real hell. And it’s a “male hell”.

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  15. I am reminded of the old story:-

    Policeman: ‘When I saw you coming round that bend I thought, “Forty-five at least”.’
    Woman motorist: ‘Well, I always look older in this hat.’

    If women started driving in Saudi, he’d have to think of another line!

  16. Should One assume the Intent of the Driving Demonstration be the Welfare of the Average Saudi Arabian Citizen? Minimum Standard Housing, Nutrition, Education? Or Is this just another Capitalist Feud; Some High Societal Divorce or Inheritance Scandal, Perhaps? The People need to know Progress has them in Mind. Soybeans, Cities, Mono Rails; Of what Use Is a King, his Stables, his Guard, If his Kingdom Itself resemble a Pig’s Sty !

  17. Koel

    “However what was surprising is that quite a few Saudis who are progressive and some activists as well are against the women driving campaign. Some have taken it as a matter of pride, that the women joining the campaign are exposing the country to international ridicule. ”

    Do you know what this reminds me of? During the Indian independence movement many prominent and activists and leaders (including Gandhi) were against women organising to petition and protest for rights such as voting, particularly if they did so through official British channels – they saw it as an affront to their patriarchal authority that ‘their’ women were bypassing them to approach the coloniser to improve their situation. They urged women to focus their energies on the independence struggle instead, promising to give them their rights in the newly independent Indian republic.
    Despite that, many women did organise and petition for these causes, in the face of considerable opposition from men, and they broke boundaries and changed things by doing so.

    These so-called progressives and activists you mention, are exhibiting the same, age-old attitudes of Gandhi and co., of patriarchal ego and pride, believing that the rights of ‘their’ women should be an internal matter, that they will eventually be able to give women these rights, and that ‘their’ women should not bypass them to demand their rights on an international scale, shaming them and the nation to the rest of the world being the ultimate transgression. Despite that attitude being anathema to progressivism.

    Over and over again, throughout history, women have had to face the the opposition of those who support their cause in principle, but don’t want them to get too uppity about it in a way that embarrasses anyone. Time and time again women have had to take their own initiative and shout with their own voices, risk their own lives and face criticism from all corners, before anything happens. In fact in the entire history of the world no one ever gave anyone their rights because no one wants to give up power until keeping it is untenable. Everywhere where laws have changed to give people rights, those people have yelled and fought and risked everything to force that change to happen. I would think these activists would know this.

    Voices like yours, and the actions of all the women who have protested the ban, are what make a difference in the long run. The “progressives and activists” will be shamed as road blocks and dinosaurs by history.

    Really great post Eman; I absolutely love your blog.

    • Assuming These Dinosaurs are 1. Vegetarians; And, are well cared for in some Globally accepted Zoological Garden ? Remember Jurasic Park !

    • Appie

      Indeed it’s all about power. Was there any women involved by writing the Koran? In those years power was based on fysical power, if it was based on intellectual power there would be women involved!
      The changes nowe a days are going far to fast, witch causes trouble. If it was not about power but realy about religion, there would be no problem at all!

  18. Another great post, Eman – thanks. I think it’s important to remember that there’s a lot of money at stake if women were no longer dependent on foreign drivers. Someone brings those drivers into Kingdom, houses them, feeds them, does their paperwork, “buys and sells” them, transports them, etc. Getting rid of them – or even just reducing their numbers – would have a significant financial impact on a lot of wealthy men here – and that’s some pretty strong motivation for slandering both the driving movement and brave women like yourself who are taking part in it. By putting their own selfish desires ahead of the good of others – and the good of the Kingdom – they show their true colors. Keep up the battle, Eman. It’s one worth fighting! (PS- Sorry to hear about your car. Saw photos elsewhere. Sucks.)

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  20. I love love love love love love love this post…….

  21. Mojtaba

    I am wondering whether all Saudi men are thinking like the Custodian of Mecca and ultra-conservatives! (Persian conspiracy! Western plot!!) I read some parts of the article, and I am surprised with it. My question is: how is it possible that Saudi women are so conscious of modern life (e.g., they buy cars with a definite knowledge that they will not be able to drive their own cars) while the majority of Saudi men are still convinced of Arab traditional norms.

    There have been several attempts to export such norms to places like Afghanistan (my country), where during the Taliban the influx of money came from the Saudis to stop girl from going to universities, schools, streets, … destroy historical sights etc. However, it failed and failed badly.

    I think Saudi women, as mothers, as the builders of modern society, shall educate their children differently in order to bring fundamental changes in the traditional structure of Arabia. Civil disobedience might work for a short-term rebellion; it will not resolve the problem, however.

  22. José Agnaldo

    Why not you can drive ? Here in Brasil you can drive my car.
    Good luck.

  23. Mark

    Good commentary of a clearly stupid situation.

    If the Saudi establishment is blaming Shia for causing all these problems we get to the heart of the problem. If any religion wasn’t man made and Islam was divinly inspired, why is it that two branches see each other has heretical? Surely if anything was divine it wouldn’t be such a shambles?

  24. Mohammad

    It is easy to point at the government and the sheikhs and to blame them for all our social problems. However they can’t even offer us a solution because they are not the problem, but of course they don’t want you to know that. They want to be able to shape the average Saudi mentality so it can become easier for them to control the people, exploit workers, and oppress the women and other groups without much resistance.
    Therefore the ordinary person is the main problem and the only the solution. He will be a part of the problem when he joins the brainless majority, who help oppressive institutions by their silence and blind submission. Or she will become part of the solution when she joins the brave minority who speak out, resist, and change.

  25. I wish I could bring your voice to the Tunisian women who are now fighting to claim the right to be treated as badly as Saudi women are, in the name of Allah. They are totally spoiling the hundred year old social benefits that have always been our pride and joy just because they are being brainwashed by some ill intentioned politicians that harness the religious sentimentalism of people to take control of Tunisia after the revolution. These women claim unfair and sexist laws that would ban them form the public sphere, prevent them from work, deny their own identity by forcing them to wear the burqa and so on.
    If only they could know how it really feels

    • mohammad

      i don’t understand people who require others to tell them what to do and how to think. all over, men and women have been the victim concentrated power. in this case were dealing with a patriarchal society which like all other kinds of heirarchy is a ladder of power that gives the people on top authority over the people below them.

      therefore the main problem is the absence of challenge to authority. i think this conclusion wont surprise many arabs, we know this more than any one else. the solution to inequality: grass root democracy in all aspects of society.

      • totally agree ! if you don’t want to work just stay at home why would you need a law for that
        but this is the new generation, they are just spoiled rotten, they never had to fight for anything and have no idea what it really means to have no rights

  26. mohammad

    yea most our people have expectations that are not realistic or practical in our times. our leaders robbed us from many times over but the most important thing they took from us is our right to know.i really admire the Tunisian and Egyptians for their courage and bravery and for proving to all arabs that we dignified and civilized culture. women of saudi arabia its your time now, and you can do it because the truth is 80% of the men in saudi arabia dont even have the courage to do what your comrades did. so rebel till you get what you want!

  27. The changes nowe a days are going far to fast, witch causes trouble. If it was not about power but realy about religion, there would be no problem at all!

  28. Mohammad

    if its truly about religion then what you do should be between you and your God… why do you need people to ban women from driving?! change is good, change is growth, and like ghandi said “We must become the change we want to see in the world.”

  29. real SAUDI woman

    Pay attention please
    To all women in SA who wants to drive a car
    I want to say : GO to America or Europe and do what you want
    You spent many many years there & liked their life style
    So you don’t have to live here & suffer from banding driving
    I am a MUSLIM … I love my country
    I respect the King & all Muslim scholars
    Though I am a real SAUDI woman , I vote against driving
    I want to live as a queen … the man is responsible for me
    At last .. I want to say sth to U Eman …
    Be careful … U R on the wrong way
    أسأل الله أن يهديك ويفتح على قلبك ويلهمك طريق الصواب

    • Mohammad

      its not about women driving, it about having the choice to drive or not. if you dont want to drive, dont drive. and believe me your no queen, if your a queen you can drive whatever you want. and you dont have to be against women driving to love your country. be thoughtful and start taking responsibility for yourself sister

      • A real SAUDI woman

        Sorry brother , But believe me I have NOT seen a queen driving a car !!
        That’s impossible .
        Another thing I want to say is that when U obey the orders of the King that means U LOVE your country
        and U know what their orders about woman driving were .
        I’m sure that all men ,who want women to drive , they want to get rid of their responsibilities but not to help women live a happy life.
        At the end , Remember :

        وعن أبي هريرة-
        رضي الله عنه- أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال:” من دعا إلى هُدى كان لهُ من الأجر مثل أجوز من تبعهُ لا ينقصُ ذلك من أجورهم شيئاً، ومن دعا إلى ضلالة كان عليه من الإثم مثل آثام من تبعهُ لا ينقصُ ذلك من آثامهم شيئاً” رواه مسلم[250].

    • Monica

      you want to live as a queen.. a queen in cage.

    • While you may love your life and enjoy being coddled, having no responsibilities, and being taken care of by a man, there are many of your fellow countrywomen who are not as fortunate as you are. What about their rights? What about their happiness? You are a selfish woman who doesn’t understand that you are lucky while other women suffer at the hands of their legal guardians or who feel oppressed because all their lives, they are treated like children and not grown adults. You have no compassion at all for others and you should be ashamed.

      • charlotte wallace

        I agree with you Susi. Where is the compassion for other women who are truly in bondage. Until all women can feel the pain of all their sisters, they will never be united. This woman is part of the problem, not part of the solution. She’s no better than the male oppressors who rule.

  30. Sandy

    IF a King loves his people he doesn’t oppress them and deny them their human rights. I call BS on accepting bad treatment somehow being “love of country”. Be a queen and let your poor sisters in Islam who NEED to work who spend most of their salary on transport, drive. Most Saudi women can’t afford a driver. And those that need to work deserve to keep their money. It is selfish to prevent them from driving. And please leave Islam out of this. Most Muslims know that Islam is not oppressive and cruel to women. Unfortunaely, this nonsense only makes others believe the worst.

    • Mohammad

      @realsaudiwomen: how many queens do you personally know to vow if they drive or not. your missing my point, a queen has the choice whether she wants to drive. im sure some queens drove at sum point in their lives. if your a queen and you drive a car, they wont denounce you as a queen. what does being a queen really mean anyway? you could be the queen in your world but your world is not the world of all saudis, or else you will be our queen! at the end of the day its about choices. Moreover, not because you disobeying someone doesn’t mean you dont love them that’s just common since, children disobey their parent all the time, does that mean children dont love their parents?! what does your husband think. his opinion is the one that matters since you claim that hes responsible for you, which would imply that hes responsible for your actions and thought. power leads to responsibilities. stop being so powerless.

  31. I just like to say: the difference between a tribal Nomad woman driving and your day-to-day Saudi woman is that one of them is willing to stab things with her dagger.

    I was fully supporting the movement… until I knew it was created by Wajeeha Huwaider and got backed by Western asshats.

  32. A real SAUDI woman

    I invite U all to this verse of the Holy Qur’an :
    قال تعالى : ياأيها الذين آمنوا أطيعوا الله وأطيعوا الرسول وأولي الأمر منكم [ النساء : 59 ] .
    وفي الصحيح عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، أنه قال : من أطاعني فقد أطاع الله ، ومن عصاني فقد عصى الله ، ومن يطع الأمير فقد أطاعني ، ومن يعص الأمير فقد عصاني .

    و في ( ( الصحيحين ) ) أيضا : على المرء المسلم السمع والطاعة فيما أحب وكره ، إلا أن يؤمر بمعصية ، فإن أمر بمعصية فلا سمع ولا طاعة .

    [ ص: 541 ] وعن حذيفة بن اليمان قال : كان الناس يسألون رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم عن الخير ، وكنت أسأله عن الشر ، مخافة أن يدركني ، فقلت : يا رسول الله ، إنا كنا في جاهلية وشر ، فجاءنا الله بهذا الخير ، فهل بعد هذا الخير من شر ؟ قال : نعم ، فقلت : هل بعد ذلك الشر من خير ؟ قال : نعم ، وفيه دخن ، قال : قلت : وما دخنه ؟ قال : قوم يستنون بغير سنتي ، ويهتدون بغير هديي ، تعرف منهم وتنكر ، فقلت : هل بعد ذلك الخير من شر ؟
    قال : نعم : دعاة على أبواب جهنم من أجابهم إليها قذفوه فيها ، فقلت : يا رسول الله ، صفهم لنا ؟ قال : نعم ، قوم من جلدتنا ، يتكلمون بألسنتنا ، قلت : يا رسول الله ، فما ترى إذا أدركني ذلك ؟ قال : تلزم جماعة المسلمين ، وإمامهم . فقلت : فإن لم يكن لهم جماعة ولا إمام ؟ قال : فاعتزل تلك الفرق كلها ، ولو أن تعض على أصل شجرة ، حتى يدركك الموت وأنت على ذلك .

    وعن ابن عباس رضي الله عنه ، قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : من رأى من أميره شيئا يكرهه فليصبر ، فإنه من فارق الجماعة شبرا فمات ، فميتة جاهلية .

    [ ص: 542 ] وفي رواية : فقد خلع ربقة الإسلام من عنقه .

    So .. How can we leave Islam out of this ?? There is a strong relation between Islam and obeying the orders of the King.

    Then , Have we achieved our important rights such as the rights for divorced women ( how and where they can live with their children , the unfair treatment from their hubands after divorce …etc ) to talk about driving which U consider to be a right which I do NOT think so .

    Watch this hahaha …..

    • Mohammad

      YOU ARE STILL MISSING MY POINT, ITS NOT ABOUT HAVING THE RIGHT TO DRIVE IT ABOUT HAVING THE RIGHT TO CHOICE… DRIVING A CAR IS JUST THE BEGGENING. you have to stop relying on others and start making your OWN choices. you can talk all you want about what God said, but saudi arabia and the king are following a lot of policies that God doesnt approve of. the right to make choices should not be a religious issue. Adam disobeyed God by eating the apple, Does that mean Adam doesnt love God?

      • abu jubair

        Allah and his messenger choose what is best for the creation not democracy or secular thinking, Muhammad if you are Muslim learn authentic Islaam , please. And you are also the follower of alot of polices that Allah does not approve, concentrate on yourself. Allah made it clear that he dies not love those who spread mischief. Are you Muslim with this secular thinking. Saudi is the only land where shirk is a crime, and it not from the sunnah to criticize the rulers in open the way the kuffar do.

    • Mohammad Mojtaba

      Real Saudi women: Why do you misrepresent Islam? I see the sign of intellectual underdevelopment in your thought.

      Let me inform you of an important point:You are using the Quran instrumentally. In other words, the Quran, here, has become a tool for you to justify injustices of the current situation. To me, the very same Quran has a revolutionary implication – obedience only to God means rebellion against all human masters. This means we, humans, have the free will to choose. If one wills to drive a car, then, according to the Quran, he or she is free to follow his or her own choice. (This is what I would call Islam)

      ياأيها الذين آمنوا أطيعوا الله وأطيعوا الرسول وأولي الأمر منكم I do not see any relationship between the “King of Saudi Arabia” and Islam!!!!! You mean that King of Saudi Arabia is أولي الأمر!!!!!! King Abdullah is the most loyal servant to the Americans, the most loyal servant to the White House. King Abdullah is a piece of shame for Islam – how do you use Quran to justify him as أولي الأمر? I know you say this out of your Arabic nationalism, not Islam.

      The funniest part is about the use of Hadith, here. Even the Shias, who have a deep respect to the family of Prophet Muhammad, do not use such Quranic verses or Hadith to say Islam means obeying the orders of the Imams or family of Muhammad. Now, you say Islam means obeying the orders of one who is servant to the Americans, to imperialism, right??

      • abu jubair

        Human have the right to choose you are right, but the rulers of the land of monotheism have a right to uphold the constitution of the country (qur’aan and sunnah) you can do what you want in your house, there is no spying in islaam. The word islaam is not synonymous with “freedom”, it means submission to the lord, owner, of the heavens and earth, not your own desires. You are khaarajiee in your in your manhaj, not different than the likes of bin laden.

  33. Sandy

    Oppression is and denial of human rights is not acceptable in Islam. Even by a King. Besides the King has indicated he is not against it- but the religious leaders are making it difficult and have brain-washed everyone through their years of controlling the educational system and indoctrinating everyone into their interpretation of Islam. Of course they don’t want women to drive- that would be the first major chip into their power and control over women. The first blow that might lead to women getting their Islamic and Human rights. They don’t want that. They want to keep the Patriarchal/Tribal system- they don’t want Islam.

  34. My conclusion: KSA will not change until KSA changes.. think about it. The efforts are pointless, time consuming and a pain!
    It is not about East, West or anything. It is about normality and abnormality!

    • Mohammad

      who is KSA, is it the goverment or the people they govern. if you mean the people, then i agree with you, “KSA will not change until KSA changes”. but those changes wont come without EFFORT and no one can stop the TIME (not yet at least), as for PAIN, Khalil Gibran said, “Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. Just as the stone of the fruit must break, so that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain.. And if you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy. If you accept the seasons of your heart, as you have always accepted the four seasons, you would watch with serenity the winters of your grief. Much of your pain is self-chosen. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore, trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquility. For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen.”

      its time to change dont you guys think?!

  35. Mohammad Mojtaba

    I shall also note a few points:

    How backward is this to analyze the current situation using the words people who died 1000 years ago. We have a brain, we have will, we have knowledge – we, humans, must make decisions based on free will and rationality, This is the message of Islam and monotheism.

    Islam is consciousness; see what Islam did in Iran after 1979 – the Islamic Revolution, which gave birth to the Islamic Republic. See what Islam did in Afghanistan during the Jihad. We must follow Quran and Hadith as a guiding principle in our life; we MUST NOT use them as tools to justify backwardness and injustice.

    Some Muslim sects like the Hanbalis are literalist, meaning that they take Quran and Hadith word by word and does not pay attention to the meaning attached to them. The point is that those meanings change as time passes; so, in each age, we have a novel interpretation of the Quran – accepting makes us progressive. What “Real Saudi Women” suggest leads to extremism and fundamentalism that is being promoted, unfortunately, by the Ulama of Mecca!!!!!

    And, please separate Arabic traditions from Islam. Your Arabic traditions are one thing (which I respect); Islam is another thing – Islam is a supra-Arabic phenomenon; Islam is a universalistic ideology.

    Let me tell you a historical reality. Please correct me if I am wrong. It is well-known that pre-Muslim Arabs used to bury their girls alive – girlhood was a symbol of shame among Arab tribes of Hizaj. But, the prophet Muhammad came and changed the situation. The only child of the prophet was a girl, Fatima. This is a great thing, you know. The child of the last prophet of God is a girl. Prophet’s first wife, Khadija, was a wealthy business women, working outside home. Ayesha, another prophet’s wife, became involved in politics after the prophet’s death and supported a group of companions against Ali in the Battle of Bassorah or Jamal. The movement in Hajj is modeled after Abraham’s wife, Hager.

    The King and the conservative Ulama of Saudi Arabia has not understood the significance of Women Rights and the value of being a women in Islam. They are stock with a bunch of outdated fatwas,, I wonder how one loves them????

    By the way, loving وأولي الأمر is HARAM!! According to the Ulama, you must only love God 🙂

  36. Mohammad Mojtaba

    I have got a question: I have been watching a TV show about an early Muslim revolutionary, who was a companion of the Prophet at some point in time: al-Mukhtār ibn Abī ‘Ubayd al-Thaqafī. In his time, he was a well-known warrior and politician among Arabs of Hijaz and Iraq.

    He belonged to Banu Thaqif. Mukhtar was born in Ta’if, Makkah Province, Saudi Arabia in 622 CE, 1 AH. My question is that – do we still have the Thaqifi tribe in Arabia??? In fact, do the tribes of the Prophet’s time still exist in Saudi Arabia today??

    In addition to Thaqifis, I would like to know about these clans as well?
    Banu Quraish
    Banu Umayyah clan
    Banu Hashim

    I wonder if an Arab brother or sister gives me information in this regard.

  37. Never mind about the stupid laws regarding whether women should be able to drive, can drive, or will be able to drive in the distant future; have you ever lifted your eyes over the seven veils, or whatever, and actually dared to comment upon the fact that thousands of Syrian Arabs are dying, tanks are firing at point blank range in cities the length of Syria, snipers are shooting from the minarets of mosques!

    At long last your Monarch has actually withdrawn the Saudi ambassador as a mark of his displeasure, which is pretty small stuff but better than nothing! People are bleeding and dying in Hama, and all you are writing about is some woman’s campaign to drive.

    An old Roman phrase springs to mind, and I quote: ‘Give the crowds bread and circuses, and they shall be quiet’

    Where are the passionate denunciations of Assad and his hired killers? Not around here, they aren’t!

  38. UnfulfilledDreams

    I think to let the women to drive must not panic them or to create discussion none-where, because if the men are sure of the education that they give to their women and trust on them, there must not be a problem to let them drive, because the girls are really strong in their faith, so they are not going to do something bad or wrong, if they’d drive…
    Maybe is lack of trust to don’t allow women to drive? I mean if they are strong in the religion and beliefs and they would drive, they are not ging to do something bad or wrong. So I don’t understand why is bad to the girls drive.

    If the religion don’t allow, ok, I accept it and respect it, is their country, but if the religion don’t say nothing about the topic they could have the choice, the woman that don’t want to drive, don’t choose it, but the woman that want to drive atleast can have the choice.

    What do you think Eman? I am sorry for my ignorance, I just pass by here and wanted to share my humble opinion, in order to look for the better for the girls of this sociaty. :S

  39. Sameer

    Salaam Saudiwoman,

    May Allah give you more strength and knowledge, and save you all kinds of trouble, while at the same time, giving you bravery, iman and sabr. I really do respect the bold stance which you are taking, and there’s nothing what-so-ever against woman empowerment in Islam, I mean Islam was the 1st to empower women, and in a twist of irony, Saudi Arabia, tries to still keep women chained to the mercy of men.

    By the way, just wondering, any idea, whether they will allow other lady expatriates to also drive, or it will be just Female Saudis and westerners?

    A guy born and brought up in Saudi for 18 years, who was kicked out when the visa expired. (Would have been in Canada, would have become a citizen 9 times now…)

  40. abu jubair

    Sameer, I assume that you are a Muslim, dunno not sure. Anyway why would incite women to rebel against the rulers, is this from islaam? No it is not, the rulers are to obeyed and followed in all that is good and we are to be patient with their shortcomings. To incite people against the Muslim ruler is khurooj(rebellion), this was the methodology of bin laden that you are traversing. And also Allah and his messenger gave the women their full rights, you just agreed in you message that islaam is incomplete after Allah saying it is complete in the qur’aan.! Giving women driving rights; the harms outweigh the benefits. I’m in America and the news and crime statistics reflect that women are the most sought after for rape, robbery. The data reads that 1.3 women in the U.S. are raped every minute, this is the price of freedom, and women rights. And you want this for our Muslims women(if your Muslim)??, whats nest if the men want to gay let them, you see nothing wrong with either huh, as long as it is not you. Leave the Muslims rulers alone, make du’a for them, and look at yourself in light of the qur’aan and sunnah.

  41. Nail Art designs

    I am glad that Saudie women are more independent.


    It is perfect that Saudi women are more free.

    Nail Art designs

  43. I have an article for you on my website, which could hopefully shift public opinon in favour of women driving.

  44. I mean if Saudi men don’t want women to have ever driven cars they better not drive a car. A woman put the mirror on the Car, you could have a car accident without it. Good luck and keep debating.

    I think public opinon needs to be shifted, before expecting the Saudi king to legalise it, because that is why he hasn’t legalised it. He wants women driving to not be such a cultural taboo, before expecting it to be legalised. I think he is right and I wish him luck.

  45. abujubair

    This is a Muslim country that you disbelievers want to be like the west sooo bad. You want us to disbelieve as you have, and Allah told the Muslims in the qur’aan that you all would be like this. It’s not about public opinion it’s about our religion and not allowing the Muslim women to be dragged through the streets and through media the way the so called free western women are. Human being are gonna be enslaved by something; it inevitable, so why not be slaves of the creator. According to the U.S. government 1.3 women are raped in the U.S. every minute, and most are not reported. Women are also the main victims of crimes perpetrated by us men. This is the price of freedom??!!, you women are not equal to us, there is no equality in the creators creation, at all everything has opposites, please reflect. Women driving in Saudi Arabia is about necessity, and benefit over harm. Look at western society and how the women are pimped and paraded; no we cannot let fools choose their demise, even if they are Muslim.

    • Mohammad

      is china a western country? is kenya western country? saudi is the only place were women cant drive and its a disgrace.forget about the rules and the rulers for a second and think… in YOUR opinion, what is wrong with women driving a car? please dont make it about ME being a muslim or not and divert the issue, i want to know ur conclusion and how u arrived there.

      p.s: there is no relation between women driving cars and them getting raped ever 1.3 minutes. other gulf countries would prove this to be true

    • You are totally brainwashed. If it’s about your religion, where does it say in the Koran that women cannot drive? This has nothing at all to do with religion. It’s about choice, human rights and dignity. You are in denial if you think that women are not raped or abused in Saudi Arabia. Wake up, man!

  46. abujubair

    Muhammad if your are Muslim you know we are to follow qur’aan and sunnah, it cannot be left alone for(1) minute. This is not about opinion, islaam is not based on opinion, just believing in the revelation from Allah and following the sunnah(way) of Muhammad. I ask you if you are Muslim because you sound contrary, maybe I should have asked are you a “religious” Muslim instead. I concluded and arrived at my belief based on the text(nass), Allah mentions in the qur’aan ,”<> [Nisa’: 59] Those in authority are the scholars, Saudi is a Muslim country not democratic or secular. Muslims follow revelation from Allah. As for the rape statistics in America, you know that America have given men and women unprecedented freedoms, most of the women raped are single women living at home, raped on dates with “boyfriends” with no third party(mahram), or out alone in bar, clubs, driving. I am an American for 39 years freedom comes with a heavy price, especially for women.Today in the U.S. women are the fastest growing jail population. The more you try and implement the ways of the kuffar; the Muslim countries will be just like America. It took only a few decades for America to deteriorate from the morality they once held and it is still happening, I know because I came from it. We see the Arabs come over here and don’t understand what you all want here, this society is not religious at all, and it will tear your family and islaam apart if you are not xxxtra careful. I hope you not residing in America talking in this manner when all you have to do is open your eyes. Allowing women to drive will open up Saudi Arabia, and the Muslim women to all sorts of evils from themselves and yes, from the men. And other Gulf countries are not a proof that their actions are correct, the proof is in the qur’aan and sunnah, most of the Arabs don’t even know their religion(we see this, and our scholars from the Arabs say so), you have never seen true evil as the Muslims in America see. May Allah bless you, (if you are Muslim) Oh and by the way, any and everything outside of the middle east is considered, “the west”

    • Mohammad

      so ur telling me that u cant think for yourself… sorry but i dont respect that at all. believing in islam cause u think its right is much different than if you believe in islam just because it said you should. if you dont want to think rationally then there is no point arguing with you, because i know what u will say and i wont learn anything new. i would like to point out three things though. 1) u still failed to prove that women driving has a positive correlation with rape. and thats because there is no relation. 2) the “west” is not anything outside the middle east. countries to the EASTof the middle east have been colonized by the WEST. 3) the ruler,, King abdullah himself, said that women can and do drive in the country side and he supports them and believe that time and impatience is the only obstacle to allowing women to drive in the cities. so according to you dont question him, DONT think about it and OBEY his will. u said “to incite people against the Muslim ruler is khurooj(rebellion), this was the methodology of bin laden that you are traversing.”

      i have lived in several arab countries and in canada… and i know that there is only a few, if any, western women that would want to be in the shoes of saudi women. and alot of arab women want to go and live in america, knowing that the risk of rape is much higher there. this is a shame and disgrace to all arabs and we can fix this.

    • Monica

      to abujubair:
      I’m your devil, Mr. Abujubair: I’m a western woman. I’ve got a job, an husband, a child. And I’ve got my own car. With my car I can drive to my job, bring my child to school, run to my old granparents when they need me, go to the supermarket for the weekly food and drink buy. As you can read, I don’t go to anyting special place with my car. I’ve not time. I work 8 hours a day (a good and interesting job that I love) and my husband works 10 hours a day, and believe me, he’s very glad to have a wife with a drive licence and to live in a country where women can drive. And I’m glad to know to contribute 50% to our family need. This makes me feel like a complete and realized woman.
      I’m a devil with the blunt horns, as you see. Stop to let someone see your morality is better and bigger then mine. And please stop talking about western women and western society like a den of perverted people. We have our problems and you have yours.
      The only think I hope it’s that the so-called Arab Spring, will bring you the “Enlightenment”. The biggest teaching left by the Enlightenment was “think with your own brain, be rational, do constructive criticism, and put the Human Being over than anything else” Good luck.

  47. abujubair

    I rationally believe that none has the right to worshiped except Allah; everything worshiped besides Allah is false and Muhammad is his last messenger. In Islaam intellect does not come before Allah and his messenger. Creation and command of the creation belong to Allah, alone. There is no need to let the women drive as they have family and chauffeurs. More harm will occur than benefit if the women are allowed to drive. THERE IS NO NEED AT ALL. In Islaam the benefit takes precedence over harm. Again here in America women are raped and harassed daily when alone without men, whether in the house alone, walking, or driving. Allah clearly states that the foundation of the woman is her home. In surah al-ahzab(33) Allah says”And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance”. During the days of ignorance the women used to wander the markets and streets, dressed but naked’ like the women today; this what the women do nowadays, so coming out of the house without a necessity is haram (impermissible). King Abdullah job is to obey Allah and his Messenger, and accept the advice of the religious scholars, not western pressure. Most of the Arabs are jahil(ignorant) of the pure Islaamic teachings, the majority of them. We see it when they come here. Of course most western women would not want to be in the shoes of Saudi women, but a few do and actually move there seeking religion. And if the Arab women want to come here to drive let them, don’t mess up a country that governed by Islaam. And any Muslim that wants to live in west instead of a country that is majority Muslim, where you can hear the adhaan called 5 times a day, where you can practice islaam openly, has severe belief issues. If you want to debate bring me qur’aan and sunnah not rationale, in Islaam we dont follow desires. Allah says,”And who is more astray then one who follows his own lust (desires) without the guidance from Allah (revelation)” [Soorah Al-Qasas (28): 50], if you wanna debate bring authentic Islaamic proofs, not thoughts, rationale, and free thinking westernized, secularize, shataanic desires. ARE YOU A MUSLIM WHO TALKING IN THIS UN-ISLAAMIC MANNER(FROM DESIRES AND WHIMS) DURING RAMADHAAN; THE MONTH IN WHICH QUR’AAN WAS REVEALED; TALKING IN THIS UNEDUCATED MANNER DURING THE LAST TEN NIGHTS…??

  48. i need a driver, i tink i will hire a saudi women….
    keep fighting….

  49. abujubair

    We notice something from the disbelievers,and the corrupt Muslims who love their ways, that when ever they want to corrupt a society they always target the women, late-teens and/or adults in their early to mid-twenties. This being done because of irreligious women in general get carried away by emotions similar to indecisive youth. You people just want our women to disbelieve like you all have, Allah said it over 1400 years ago, “And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion/ways. Say, “Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance.” If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper”. And you people are proving this verse from the qur’aan to be concise in our times, and notice time difference were are 2011, and that verse was revealed 1432 years ago. And you secularists/democratic/ or ignorant Muslims say people have evolved and there is no need for religion, wow. You are fooooolish, and don’t even believe that you are a man..

  50. Sandy

    Islam is compatible with Human Rights. Therefore there is no Islamic reason women can’t drive. However Saudi is a Patriarchal/Tribal society- NOT an Islamic one so sadly- human rights and Islam are set aside to oppress women (and others actually). Even worse it’s done in the name of Islam. Islam is not of the East or of the West. If non-Muslims in the west are more advanced in human rights then shame of the people interfereing in the Islamic world. The Islamic world should be leading not following. Should have been the FIRST to have women drive- not the last. Tribalism and Patriarchy is not healthy for human rights or Islam.

    • abujubair

      Sandy you are out of your mind to say that Saudi is not an Islaamic society??!! It is the only country in the world where the dead are not venerated; no polytheism,:no magic practiced in open: a country where they have held on to Islaamic traditions for over 1430 year and no they are not perfect.!! Human rights are included in Islaam, the creator of the heavens and universe has given mankind their rights; men, and women. How can the west be so advanced in human rights when you gave rights to those who the creator did not, are you more wise, and knowledgeable that the (your)creator??. You allowed polytheism, atheism, role reversal, same sex marriage, same sex adoption, you have allowed anal sex to permissible when the creator made these acts impermissible. You have no traditions, no morals, your women cannot keep men, the godly union of marriage in the west has deteriorated to nothing, more than half of the children are the results of fornication, your are committing more crimes that ever, women trying to compete with men in our manhood which is resulting in the breakdown of family: polarization of men and women, everyone worried about themselves, and the women try to rob men of what naturally comes with them: healthy jealousy, protective natured, and in-bred leadership qualities. Anyway in islaam benefit takes precedence over harm, and there is no need or benefit in women driving. Most of them have chauffeurs, and/or men in their families who drive them. No human can give another the right to make permissible what the creator made impermissible(play god), western society has created a cess pool for themselves that they call advancement, and you all want us to disbelieve like you all have, and embrace “thinking, and logic” and then place this over the creator of the heavens and earth revelation?? It is just like Allah says in the qur’aan, ” Many of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even, after the truth (that Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allah’s Messenger) has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allah brings His Command. Verily, Allah is Able to do all things.”

    • abujubair

      Also islaam is compatible with human rights, just not %100 percent with the man made stuff, only the divine guidance, that which used to be contained in your scriptures but your rabbis, priests, and monks lied and changed things from their proper places. Allah is the creator and provider, so how can you be advance blessedly while ignoring your ignoring your scriptures, you allow man to be judge, through democracy. And Allah has warned the Muslims not to follow your ways or we too will disbelieve. We say this 17 x’s a day in our prayers but unfortunately most Muslims don’t understand. But Allah’s messenger told that there will always be one group from the Muslims who will remain steadfast upon this way of life (islaam), and we will not fear the blame of the blamers and we will not harmed.

  51. Sandy

    I’m afraid you don’t seem to know much about the West or about Saudi Arabia. You seem to have learned about the west from TV shows- and you seem completely ignorant about all the crime and perversion that goes on in Saudi.

    Most women DO NOT have chaffeurs here – sorry that is a myth. And many DO NOT have men who are available to drive them. There is an ownership system here where women are never legally adults and always have a man that controls there life. Women are raped, beaten and abused. There children are taken from them. They are left- and the husband remarries while refusing to divorce the wife. These are all tribal things- not Islamic. There is a long history of homosexuality here between men and young boys and there is increasing homosexuality among men and women becuase of the unnatureal gender segregation laws.

    I agree that Islam has human rights. But the tribal system of Saudi Arabia does not. And it is a further crime for them to claim “Islam” and tarnish the name of a whole faith.

  52. Sue Bingham

    Eid Mubarak, Friends!

  53. abujubair

    One thing I must agree on is that there are alot of un-Islaamic practices in Saudi Arabia, after all they are human. All humans need to be contained to a certain extent that is why the creator sent revelation because mankind’s nature is oppressive against itself and others, this includes intellectuals who follow whims and desires, but are not criminal. Just as humans are slaves to the creator, and his will women to are to be respectful, dutiful, and yes obedient to men who posses the right characteristics. This in a woman nature, to be kind, caring, affectionate, and soft natured. Allah has chosen women to carry and raise the children not men because of natural qualities that women posses, etc. Yes there is perversion in Saudi society(nothing comparable to the west) and allowing women to drive would enable these evil doers to increase in their evil. Children being taken from wives/ex-wives is an option that islaam permits but it is conditional; and is probably used as an emotional tool at times from oppressive men. Gender separation has nothing to do with homosexuality, homosexuality is a disease of the hearts i’m Muslim in American and we(men) “hold” hands when we shake(expiation of minor sins an example taken from Allah’s messenger Muhammad, we hug, we kiss on cheeks, we separate sexes and nothing of homosexuality enters or exits our hearts because we hate it. Don’t use segregation as a catalyst for homosexuality, segregation has it’s place in Islaam from the early generations including Muhammad himself. Some thing are tribal, I agree but as Muhammad said,” some aspects from the days of ignorance will always remain in my ummah(Muslims nation)”. This being said in a blame worth manner of course. As for women being raped and abused; you know full well that is not tolerated in Saudiyyia; Islaam offers the harshest punishment for both.!! And the problem is that you people are not satisfied with Islaam at all until we adopt your ways(western); admit it. If we practice our religion you all don’t want that, and if we behave like the west we will be called hypocrites, you’ll never be pleased. In the bible it states, “The head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.” (1 Corinthians 11:3) Every individual except God submits to a higher authority.” Does the fact that Jesus has a head mean that he is being discriminated against.? What do you have to say about this? Democracy and secularism parraell this bible verse. Man and women are not equal and every in every aspect, all created being need authority. When everyone play their “respective” roles the society and household runs smoothly. There is only one God, one president, one head football coach, one pilot, and one steering wheel in a car. If you add an opposing one to the one you two entities; one going against the grain. Also I live in the West, and I grew up seeing the moral decay(ongoing) that America suffers from due to individualism, democracy, and secularism. Christians in the west are christian by name, and their religion is secularism. The west is sooooo far away from what is left of truth in the bible. Also, learn to differentiate Islaam from the acts of the Muslims. May Allah guide you, ameen.

  54. abujubair

    Allah messenger said, “the burden of proof is on the claimant, if not people can claim what the wish.” I ask you to provide proof on where islaam says that while a man ‘s “wife”is in iddah (mourning period before she is actually divorced) that he cannot take a second, third, or fourth wife.?? And no we do not need their permission for this as the apologetic/ignorant Muslims claim. Also Islaam has allowed it’s believers to retain some of the tribal/cultural practices that do not contradict Islaam. Like plural marriage; Islaam just restricted the practice to four, when prior it was un-numbered. And real women have a natural instinct to “serve” a righteous, loving, caring man, and history and experience shows that when a woman is treated with the same qualities she possesses she will return the same and then some. One of the scholars from the our time, his name is Shaikh Muqbil said,”when a women falls in love with a man she becomes like his slave.” This true the woman becomes puddy to a righteous man; but then again some women love oppressive men. Women are truly different.!!

  55. abujubair

    Allah ordered women to stay in their homes. He said,
    “And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance.” (Surah Al-Ahzab 33:33). The women are allowed out for “needs”, only. And because the man is required to provide for his family he must pay for his wife’s (wives), mothers, grandmother etc.. transportation. Also, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and said,
    “O Messenger of Allah, I like to pray with you.” He said, “I know that you like to pray with me, but your prayer in your room is better for you than your prayer in your courtyard and your prayer in your courtyard is better for you than your praying in your house, and your prayer in your house is better for you than your prayer in the mosque of your people, and your prayer in the mosque of your people is better for you than your prayer in my mosque.” So she issued orders that a prayer-place be prepared for her in the furthest and darkest part of her house, and she used to pray there until she met Allah (i.e., died).” Also, Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
    I have not left after me any (chance) of turmoil more injurious to men than the harm done to the men because of women. The women are allowed out for necessities, only. Women driving would give women unnecessary freedoms, we see it here in America to the point that you cannot differentiate between the clothing for the house, and the clothing for the streets, most women wear shorts that look like panties.

  56. Sandy

    You need to study origins of Hadith better and broaden your reading of Quran. Aren’t those words prefaced with the statement that it’s for the “wives of the Prophet” and that they are “not like other women”??? Don’t we know from a wider reading that women prayed in the mosque all the time in the days of the Prophet? You have given a clear example of how corrupt and Patriarchal the Islamic atmosphere in Saudi is. They will use anything to reinforce their Male-Dominated situation- even when it is obviously out of context.

    Also read the paper more. There have been cases of women who have been raped- punished by lashing. And women abused by their spouses or fathers returned to their care. It is patriarchy all the way here. OF COURSE Islam doesn’t allow it. But Saudi does. And we really have no idea how much unsavory stuff goes on because women are afraid to report it. At least in the west the law defends the woman- though proof can be difficult. In Saudi- tribal law protects the man. And if you are quoting Christianity for my benefit- it makes no difference to me- as I’m not Christian I am Muslim.

  57. Pingback: SaudiWomen2Drive « Frauen-Internationalismus-Archiv

  58. abujubair

    First of all there is no such thing as luck; luck does not have life, knowledge, power, or will, there is only fate, which the creator controls. Islaam is not against women working or coming out into public, just when there is a need. If a muslim man or woman works they both have to be careful of the environments where they work in and outside of muslim majority countries. As for hadith Allah says about the messenger, “he does not speak from his own desire,” and “It is nothing less than a inspiration that is inspired to him” (surah:53) So the speech/doings/sayings of the messenger are revelation called hadith. The messengers doings/saying/actions are collectively called his “sunnah”. the sunnah explains the qur’aan, “And We(Allah) have revealed to you the Remembrance so that you may explain to mankind that which has been revealed for them.”(16:44) So there is no escaping the sunnah of Muhammad. Some of the ahadeeth(plural) are fabricated lies, and we are aware of this, the early scholars have a grading system to root out the fabrications. As for women praying all the time in the masaajid during the first three generations (salaf) this is strange. Please bring your proof to this statement. Thank-you. Even in America women are afraid to report rape as the Government statistics quote, and” some” women(general) don’t report because they put themselves with various people(s), in strange places and evil is the result. This is proof for keeping women safe and secure in the house as commanded by their lord, and creator, “And abide quietly in your homes, and do not flaunt your charms as they used to flaunt them in the old days of pagan ignorance; and be constant in prayer, and render the purifying dues, and pay heed unto Allah and His Messenger: for Allah only wants to remove from you all that might be loathsome, O you members of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you to utmost purity.” [33:33] this verse is specific to the wives of the Allah’s messenger and general to all muslim women. Then we have this verse, “O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.(33:59) which is general to all muslim women. As for you or any other non-muslim westernized, woman working it does not bother us, and this is the issue leave the Muslims alone why does the west stir up so much controversy concerning Islaam and the Muslims, Allah says, “Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you till you follow their religion. Say: “Verily, the guidance of Allah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) guidance. And if believers were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Qur’an), then you would have against Allah neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper.) So as for the intellect over the revealed texts from Islaam you are crazy. You just invited me to disbelieve, and you have further pushed me into my belief; Allah telling the Muslims not to trust you people. Sandy, this is where the contention between Muslims and non-Muslims comes from. I thought Western democracy, and secularism was about freedom, and diversity. You people are hypocritical, how can there be diversity when you want us to be like you all?? I would love for All kuffar(non-Muslims) to be Muslim, but that can only happen by Allah’s will, and we can’t force the kuffar to be Muslim, contrary to western media. But the West runs constant hot and cold wars through the middle east, and props up westward leaning governments, i thought your people championed diversity, unlikeness, and variance.???

  59. abujubair

    also, there plenty of plots against Saudi Arabia from the West and the shi’ites, sufis, khwaarij(likes of bin laden), ikhwanis. Alot of kuffar and deviant Muslims want Saudi to backslide and you should be aware of this Allah spoke about the plots of the kuffar and the hypocritical Muslims in the qur’aan, I hope you don’t believe that Allah, his messenger, this way of life (islaam, and the Muslims don’t have real enemies),Allah says in 5:51 “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as ‘Auliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers etc.), they are but ‘Auliya’ to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as ‘Auliya’ then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).” This does not forbid the muslms from treating them justly, O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists, etc.) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth (i.e. Islamic Monotheism, this Qur’an, and Muhammad ), and have driven out the Messenger (Muhammad ) and yourselves (from your homeland) because you believe in Allah your Lord! If you have come forth to strive in My Cause and to seek My Good Pleasure, (then take not these disbelievers and polytheists, etc., as your friends). You show friendship to them in secret, while I am All-Aware of what you conceal and what you reveal. And whosoever of you (Muslims) does that, then indeed he has gone (far) astray, (away) from the Straight Path.” (60:1) Again, in this verse Allah addresses the believers in general, and the circumstances/cause(asbaab) that were existent then(their disbelief and fighting of Islam and the Muslims) is present now, so the verse still applies. And their disbelief lies in not worshiping Allah alone, upon the revelation that was sent to Muhammad(his sunnah). They will say that they believe in Allah(meaning his existence), but so did the pagan/polytheistic Arabs and Allah ordered his messenger to refute them. Islaam is not only about recognizing that Allah is god, and creator alone, he must be worshiped alone upon the sunnah of Muhammad. The revelation that was given to the jews and christians was abrogated by the qur’aan,Allah says, ““And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it.” [Quran 5:48] Sandy I hope you not from the soft hearted, apologetic Muslims.

  60. Sandy

    I am astounded. Anyway if you have no knowledge of how the women of the Sahaba lived then you know even less than I thought. It seems you know only select hadith or portions thereof which you follow as a scriipt. Try reading from other sources than the selective ones you are using. There is a wealth of Islamic knowledge out there.

    Who the hell are you to be judgeing people? You judge westerners (and yet it seems you live there and take all sorts of benefits from doing so) why don’t you leave and live with Muslims. you are a bad guest to speak out the people you live with and take from in the way you do. You hope I’m not a soft-hearted, apologetic Muslim?? None of your business and who would you be to judge that? Seems to me you’re full of judgement right and left- yet you support an oppressive patriarchal law that oppresses people in Saudi. Interesting. Anyway, anyone reading here has seen two points of view they can decide for themselves what to believe. I hope anyone interested looks a bit beyond the very narrow selection of sources you have shown and starts with the assumption that Allah is all-powerful, all-knowing, Most Benificent and Most Merciful- rather than as the one dimensional small minded being you portray him to be.

  61. abujubair

    In surah Al-Fatihah Allah commanded the Muslims to ask him 17 times daily to lead us on the straight “path” , Allah says, “Guide us to the straight path.”
    He did not says ‘paths”, as there is on;y one way he is pleased with as we see in surah taubah ayah 100 Allah says, “And the first forerunners [in the faith] among the Muhajireen and the Ansar and those who followed them with good conduct – Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. That is the great attainment.” In this verse Allah says that he is pleased with the sahabah their faith, application of that faith(manhaj), character, and belief(aqeedah). Look at an example of the female sahabah,Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith # 282

    Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba (Radhiallaahu anha) “Aisha (Radhiallaahu anha) used to say: “When (the Verse): “They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,” was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces.”
    Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith # 368

    Narrated ‘Aisha (Radhiallaahu anha) Rasulullah (Sallallaahu alayhi Wasallam) used to offer the Fajr prayer and some believing women covered with their veiling sheets used to attend the Fajr prayer with him and then they would return to their homes unrecognized . Shaikh Ibn Uthaimin in tafseer of this hadith explains “This hadith makes it clear that the Islamic dress is concealing of the entire body as explained in this hadith. Only with the complete cover including the face and hands can a woman not be recognized. This was the understanding and practice of the Sahaba and they were the best of group, the noblest in the sight of Allah (swt) with the most complete Imaan and noblest of characters. so if the practice of the women of the sahaba was to wear the complete veil then how can we deviate from their path? (Ibn Uthaimin in the book “Hijaab” page #12 and 13)
    Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Hadith # 148

    Narrated ‘Aisha (Radhiallaahu anha): The wives of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu alayhi Wasallam) used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. ‘Umar used to say to the Prophet “Let your wives be veiled,” but Rasulullah (Sallallaahu alayhi Wasallam) did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam’a the wife of the Prophet went out at ‘Isha’ time and she was a tall lady. ‘Umar addressed her and said, “I have recognized you, O Sauda.” He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of “Al-Hijab” (A complete body cover excluding the eyes).

    Abu Dawud recorded that Abu Usayd Al-Ansari said that he heard the Messenger of Allah , as he was coming out of the Masjid and men and women were mixing in the street, telling the women:

    (Keep back, for you have no right to walk in the middle of the street. You should keep to the sides of the road.)

    The women used to cling to the walls so much that their clothes would catch on the walls. These are some examples of the female sahabah those who Allah said, ” Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him.” (9:100) I’m salafi, and all the salafi’s do is believe and follow the way(manhaj) of the salaf(first three generations). The first generation learning directly from Allah’s messenger, being present during revelation. The female sahabah never acted, dressed, believed, or questioned Islaamic law the way these modern do. Don’t tell me about the sahabah, I ask you do you apply islaam the way the salaf did, when you walk the streets do you cling closely to the wall, with only your hands and eyes visible, and allowed said he was pleased with them, not us, them their way and understanding of islaam!!!
    Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Hadith # 164:
    Narrated ‘Aisha (Radhiallaahu Ánha): Once Sada bint Zam’a went out at night for some need, and ‘Umar (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) saw her, and recognizing her, he said (to her), “By Allah, O Sada! You cannot hide yourself from us.” So she returned to the Prophet and mentioned that to him while he was sitting in my dwelling taking his supper and holding a bone covered with meat in his hand. Then the Divine Inspiration was revealed to him and when that state was over, Rasullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) was saying: “O women! You have been allowed by Allah to go out only for your needs.” This is why the scholars say women should only leave there house in extreme need and that even with niqaab because a man shoud not be able to recognize her. So if we are not even supposed to be able to recognize women (after this ayah came) then how can we have parties with men and women mingling? This is small example for you on the female sahabah. As for criticizing those whom Allah and his messenger criticized(jews and christians, people of misguidance and innovation from the Muslims) what is wrong with criticizing those whom Allah and his messenger criticized, we definitely cannot honor them!! How can you honor those whom Allah said are dalleen(astray) as in the case of the christians, and those whom earned Allah’s anger such as the jews. (Al-Fatihah) When Allah’s Messenger was asked who earned Allah’s anger; he said the jews, when he was asked who are those who went astray he it is the christians. I hope you are not believing /saying that these two groups of people are not as Allah and his messenger say they are. they still posses the same attributes now as they did then if not worse. You recite Al-Fatihah 17 times a day, do you know what you are reciting. So the Western culture; which is a hedonistic, shirk infested, magic infested, following of base desires infested dregs is sooo worth of criticisms until they accept islaam. These people have made everything that Allah made impermissible; permissible, look out your window; shirk with Allah, Jesus is god, homosexuality, lesbianism, alcohol, adultery, fornication, unnecessary abortions(due to casual sex), dressed but un-dressed women, usury(riba), gambling. They made im-permissible ploygyny(plural marriage, as it is in their scriptures) and the judgement of judgement on earth on earth. In islaam we judge, “He, the Lofty and Sublime said in three places in Surah al-Mai’dah:

    “And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such as the Kafirun” (5:44)

    “And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such as the Zalimun” (5:45)

    “And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed (then) such (people) as the Fasiqun” (5:47) So the one who reflects on these great verses and looks at them in light of what the language of the Arabs and the language of the Qur’an necessitate and require, he will find that they are general in their application to two entities.

    The first: that they are general for all of the Muslims, regardless of whether they are rulers or those who are ruled over. So these verses include the overall ruler, the qadi (ruler), the teacher, the owner of a house, the wife and so on.

    The evidence of this generality is taken from the verse itself and also from the narrations that have been reported from the Salaf (may Allah be pleased with them all) in explanation of this verse. For the statement of the saying of Allah, the Sublime and the Most High:

    “And whoever…”

    gives evidence to the generality (i.e. includes everybody). And this particle “man” is one of the words that indicates generality in the view of the People of Knowledge, since it is one of the nouns of condition (‘ism ush-shart’) and so therefore it refers to all of those being addressed.

    So in Islaam we judge people on what they say and do, ignorance is the only excuse, and I give it to you this time my sister. We judge by the qur’aan and sunnah not by desires, or man made laws, and the one who fails in this falls into the description(s) given by Allah in the above verses. Saudi Arabia’s constitution is qur’aan and sunnah, the rulers judge by it, it is the land of tawheed and sunnah, are the rulers perfect in every aspect; no, and neither are we (you and i), but it is not from islaam to criticize them publicly, and the messenger said in a blameworthy manner that some aspects of tribalism will always remain in my ummah. The term my ummah is not specific to Saudi, the ummah of Muhammad is worldwide so in every place(world) we all some characteristics that are blameworthy.
    As for other sources Allah’s path is one not multiple, and the messenger spoke of one group that is saves from the fire.Bismillaah Al-Hamdulillaah wa salatu wa salaamu ‘ala rasulullaah
    Amma ba’d

    The Meaning of the Prophet’s Statement: “…All of them will be in the Fire, except one.”

    Question: What is the meaning of the following Hadith: “My Ummah will be divided into 73 sects. All of them will be in the Hell-Fire except for one sect”?

    Who is that sect? And will the seventy-two sects live forever in [the] Fire, as the Mushrik will or not? And does the term ‘Ummah’ of the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) apply to those who follow him as well as to those who do not, or is it to the former only?

    Answer by The Permanent Committee: What is meant by the term ‘Ummah’ in this Hadith is the Ummah of response which shall be divided into seventy-three sects; seventy-two of which are deviant who practice innovated religious practices that do not constitute apostasy. Each shall be tortured in accordance to its innovations, and deviation, except for those whom Allaah pardons and forgives. Their final abode will be Paradise. The only sect that will be safe is Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama’ah, who adhere to the Sunnah of the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), and hold fast to what he and his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) were holding. It is they about whom the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: “A group of my Ummah shall remain steadfast, on the truth, victorious, unharmed by those who oppose them, and do not support them, until the death or until the Day of Resurrection.” [1]

    As for those whose innovation casts them out of Islam, they belong to the Ummah of invitation (mankind at large) not the Ummah of response. They shall remain in the Hell-Fire forever, and this is the most valid opinion.

    It is also said that the term ‘Ummah’ in this Hadith means the Ummah of invitation, which is a general term including all those to whom the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) was sent (i.e., mankind) those who believe and those who do not believe. Whereas the term ‘the saved sect’ is the Ummah of response, which strictly applies to those who believe in the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), trustfully, and die on this condition. This is the sect that will be safe from [the] Fire; either by prior punishment or without prior punishment, and their final abode will Paradise.

    As for the seventy-two sects (in the second opinion), they are all – Excluding the saved sect – disbelievers who will live forever in [the] Fire. Hence, it is clear that the Ummah of Da’wah is more general in connotation than the Ummah of response. That is to say, whoever belongs to the Ummah of response, belongs to the Ummah of invitation, while not everyone of the Ummah of invitation belongs to the Ummah of response.

    [1] Al-Bukhari nos. 71, 3641 and Muslim no. 1920.

    The Permanent Committee

    Source: Fatawa Islamiyah, Vol. 1
    Islaam is narrow. As for the two points of views; you provide no evidences from the qur’aan and sunnah, none. Allah’s messenger said that the burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim.” You are just talking, and typing.

  62. Sandy

    I think your statement that you are a “Salafi” says it all. Define your sects as you like- pick and choose your hadith. You might try to judge others less but your “sect” is known for usurping Allah’s role at judgement- not for following the ways of the Sahaba. I’m done with this discussion now I know how futile it will be. Anyone reading this exchange can do their own research. For now I will go enjoy the rest of my Eid holiday with my family.
    PS the burden is also on you to “prove” you are the “chosen” sect. You haven’t done that by a long shot. You just string together specific hadith which tell you what your desires want to hear-while ignoring the totality of them- not discerning context or strength etc. As for your judgement of Western women- shame on you.

  63. abujubair

    I figured you would bail out at this point as the sects of desires do, because you all know that salafiyyah is Islaam, and our adherence is rigid (not extreme), and all we do is argue(kindly) with the qur’aan and sunnah not desires. Salafiyyah takes into consideration all authentic ahadeeth from Allah’s messenger, and athaar(narrations) from his companions, and their students. These three groups (including Allah’s messenger make up our salaf saalih (righteous predecessors), no one can deny this fact except those who follow “corrupt” opinions and desires. And we do have a specific manhaj(path/way), Ibn Mas’ood – radiyallaahu ’anhu – said, [7] Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) drew a line for us and then said, “This is Allaah’s Path.” Then he drew lines to its right and its left, and said, “These are differing paths, upon each of them there is a Shaytaan (devil) calling to it.” Then he recited, “And verily this is My Path, so follow it, and do not follow other paths for they will separate you away from His Path.”

    He (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam also said, “Indeed, the people of the Book before you split-up into seventy-two sects. And this nation will split-up into seventy-three sects, seventy two are in the Fire and one is in Paradise .” [5] And in another narration, “All of them are in the Fire except one.” It was asked, ‘Who is that one?’ He replied, “That which I and my Companions are upon.
    I myself cannot say that I am specifically saved, but the manhaj(methodology), aqeedah(belief) of the salaf(our forefathers) is. The United States of America follows their salaf(forefathers) constitution, bill of rights, etc. So why shouldn’t we??
    As for judging the “disbelieving” women; i guess you are o.k. with fornication, lesbianism, hedonism, scantly clothed women, pornography, etc.. Not saying that the muslim women does fall in to these traps that shaytaan has set, the big difference is in Saudi and some of the other muslim countries these social ills are crimes, that are punishable while the west has made these crimes legal calling it expression, freedom, womens rights and arts; while their own outdated, mankind corrupted scriptures(old/new testament) prohibits such heinous ills.
    Now the western women who are muslim; i love them for sake of Allah, and I pray they can distinguish truth from falsehood, i pray that follow the qur’aan and sunnah with all their heart, not throwing the rest behind their back. Again “i” am not chosen, never said I was. I just follow the group that is free from error, the group whom Allah announced his pleasure upon.
    I leave you with this hadeeth, “The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “I advise you to have taqwaa of Allaah and to hear and to obey, even if an Abyssinian slave becomes your leader. Those of you who live long after me will see a lot of differences, so hold fast to my Sunnah and to the Sunnah of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs after me. Cling to it tightly and beware of newly-invented matters, for every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is misguidance, and all misguidance is in the Fire.” He said to cling to those rightly guided successors that come after him; being specific.

    the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “There will not cease to be a group from my Ummah victorious upon the truth, not being harmed by those who oppose them until the command of Allaah comes about, and they are like that.” Notice, he said one group, select,not groups.??!!

    You know Sandy I believe you said that you are Muslim and married, it’s your husbands responsibility to teach you authentic islaam, Allah says, “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other.” (2:228) does your husband teach you authentic islaam, the real deal islaam; not watered down. Alot of the men are watery and then oppress their wives by giving them watered down versions of islaam so the wife won’t excel or check him when he is wrong. This could be part of the problem in Saudi, the women don’t know understand their deen(way of life/islaam) so the men resort to tribalism. Not being funny, because the men muslim men here in America do it to.

    I would just love see your beliefs on such hot button topics like polygyny, voting, same sex marriage, etc..

    • Sandy

      Fascinating that you think it’s my husbands responsibility to teach me Islam. Funny you think that verse means that men are more in knowledge than women. A very tribal interpretation that is common amoung many Muslims. There are many real-life examples that prove this is not the case. More accurate that men have and “advantage” over women, and given that there has been mysogyny as a part of nearly every cultrue throughout history that is just a fact. The verse is more about a man’s responsibility to women in his family than about his superiority.

  64. Bin Bassel

    Isn’t this all getting a little, how can I say this, tedious?

    Surely, the answer is to know what is right, do what you believe is right and let Allah be the judge.

    • Sandy

      Bin Bassel you are correct. Allah only will judge. I find it difficult to discuss with people who “know” which are the most relevant hadith and who “know” to what they are refering and who “know” the correct interpretations etc. They all follow the same script. The script that makes them right and everyone else wrong. But it really isn’t their call- and they lack humility and can’t consider that maybe they have it all wrong. They think they are right because Allah is right- but that doesn’t mean they have correctly understood anything Allah has said or that they are right.

      • abujubair

        A script has to followed in Islaam, we can’t just make up things as we go along, this is why Allah sent prophets and messengers. Allah says in surah 2:213, “Mankind was [of] one religion [before their deviation]; then Allah sent the prophets as bringers of good tidings and warners and sent down with them the Scripture in truth to judge between the people concerning that in which they differed. And none differed over the Scripture except those who were given it – after the clear proofs came to them – out of jealous animosity among themselves. And Allah guided those who believed to the truth concerning that over which they had differed, by His permission. And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path.” So we see that when differing, and multiple paths appeared Allah sent clarification, and refutation. He refuted the people of falsehood all through the qur’aan and praised the people of tawheed.
        This Hadeeth is a Hadeeth that cannot be quoted enough. It shows each and every Muslim what we should follow and what we should unite upon. And any Muslim that sees this Hadeeth it is upon him to gain knowledge of what the Prophet (Salallahu alaihi wa sallam) and his Companions (Radiallaho anhum) agreed upon and to submit totally to that. And if he doesn’t do so after this clear Hadeeth then it shows that there is pride in his heart because the Messenger (Salallahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “Verily pride is refusing the truth and looking down at people”. So let us O Muslims submit to the truth when it comes to us.
        On the authority of Abu Huraira (radiallaho anhu) the Prophet
        (salallahu alaihi wa sallam) said, “And my ummah will divide into 73
        sects all of them in the fire except for one.” The companions asked
        “Who are they O Prophet?” He said,”Those who are upon what I am upon today and my companions.” Shaikh Al Albani and Shaikh Ul Islam Ibn Taymeeyah said it is a Saheeh Hadeeth. Allah said about his messenger, “It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.” (33:36) also in 59:7 “And whatever the Messenger has given you – take; and what he has forbidden you – refrain from. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.” Notice the threat at the end of the verse for straying away from the script.

        You find it difficult to go round this proof that is being provided that’s what is difficult, you cannot refute this islaamically. And all of these verses, and ahadeeth are clear needing minimal explanation.There is “no way” the path of Allah messenger and his companions could be wrong, Allah said, “And the first forerunners [in the faith] among the Muhajireen and the Ansar and those who followed them with good conduct – Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. That is the great attainment.” (9:100) Allah announced his pleasure with them and their path(not paths), no opinions, not questioning excessively, then Allah says in 4:115″And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers – We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination.” Now there’s the threat for going against the way of the messenger and the sahabah, so i guess a muslim is just to ignore these clear proof from Allah, but stop at man made stop signs…??

      • abujubair

        Sandy, are you a Sunni Muslim(believer of and follower the sunnah of Muhammad) because it is strange, that you find strange the qur’aan and sunnah, you should be familiar with these verses and ahadeeth, they are very common and not hidden especially in our day and age with so many strange Islaamic groups the scholars past and present have been using these verses and ahadeeth for centuries. Maybe your Imam, husband, or the community you belong to hides this methodology from you. After all the sahabah followed a script and Allah said he was pleased with their script(belief, methodology and application) We would be derelict of intellect, and faith to follow another script, or scripts after proof has came to us about a group (not groups) that already announced his pleasure for ??

  65. abujubair

    Whats right is to believe and say that anything/everything else that is worshiped alongside/associated with Allah is shirk, and false, then to believe, say, and act on that worship is only for Allah alone(negation and affirmation). And that worship is not worship unless done according to the sunnah of Muhammad, then to implement islaam in the manner in which he taught his companions(male and female) to accept islaam in every facet of our lives; shunning secularism, democracy, and that the intellect does not proceed Allah and his messenger. Ever, this the straight path, not paths, and this is why the first generations of islaam saw unity and we don’t because of multiple paths and parties.
    Distinction between the people of truth and the people of falsehood is something that is obligatory. And the people may say, “Where is this distinction made in the Qur`an and the Sunnah?”

    Allaah’s Messenger (salallaahu ‘alaihin wa sallam) said:
    Bada Al-Islamu ghariban wa sa ya-‘udhu ghariban kama bada`aa fa tooba lil ghuraba (Islam began as something strange and it will return strange as it began, so glad tidings for the strangers).

    And the term that the Messenger (salallaahu ‘alaihin wa sallam) used here was ghuraba (strangers). The Messenger (salallaahu ‘alaihin wa sallam) did not say Islam began as something strange and it will return strange as it began, so glad tidings be upon the Muslims. He did not say “Muslims” because they were known to be Muslims. But what he mentioned was tooba lil ghuraba. [Glad tidings to] the strangers.

    So therefore it is clear that the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alaihin wa sallam) used these statements.

    Even in the hadith of the 73 sects. What did the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alaihin wa sallam) say? When he mentioned that this Ummaah will divide into 73 sects. [He said:]
    Kulluha fi nar ila wahida wa hiya al Jama’ah. (All of them into the fire except one and it is the Jama’ah.)

  66. abujubair

    There is no room for people doing what they believe is right, this is not the Islaamic call. That is call of the secularists, and the people of desires. For us Muslims the call is doing what we “know” is right. If it was up to the people to do what is right why did Allah send the prophets and messengers with Allah’s religious will and guidance, legal and illegal(laws)??. Why did Allah create heaven and fire if you can just choose what you want.?? Just because Allah gave mankind intellect does not mean that we place of intellects over the all knowing of the seen and unseen(Allah), and even if a person chooses to disbelieve he never escape Allah’s will, Allah says in surah takwir:(28-29) “To whomsoever among you who wills to walk straight,
    And you will not, unless (it be) that Allah wills, the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

    [But] Allah mocks them and prolongs them in their transgression [while] they wander blindly. and the verse, Those are the ones who have purchased error [in exchange] for guidance, so their transaction has brought no profit, nor were they guided. (baqarah:15/16) So those who choose(intellect, freedom, democracy, freedom) over guidance from Allah; Allah will allow for you wallow in you misguidance for an appointed term. Allah Akbar!!

  67. Another excellent blog entry. The most interesting parts of it, to me, are the entries on the financial situation of most Saudis, and the pervasive fear of speaking out. I lived in Riyadh and Dhahran for 14 years, and can tell you that in North America at least, neither reality about your country is remotely understood.

  68. abujubair

    Saudi is mis-understood because of because to understand Muslims you Muslims understand Islaam. It is not from our religion to speak out in public about the rulers.They can be refuted in private, as Saudi is one of the few countries left where you can actually meet the kind personally. It is not from our religion ti incite the masses against the rulers and it is in western culture. We don’t need elections because the religion is the constitution, as Islaam embodies a total way of life not just worship(business transactions, child welfare, marriage, hygiene, manners, etc…) Plus the rulers come from the people not from another planet or country, so the rulers will be somewhat similar to the people, if the people are wholesome, god-fearing the ruler will be to, if the people are oppressive in most cases the ruler will be too. Bill Clinton, Bush Jr., and Sr., etc. are from the American people so why be surprised when they lied, cheated(Schwarzenegger, Woods) and committed adultery this is the American way. It’s not principle but it is the way. Bush lied on Iraq, and his crony Cheyney; liars. Islaam and the Muslims can be understood if the people don’t rely on western media, orientalists, apologetic Muslims, an those Muslims who are ignorant as advisers. At that point when you speak to an authentic muslim who hide or lied you may accept islaam or reject and fight against us, because Allah says, ” “And whomsoever Allaah wills to guide, He opens his breast to Islam; and whomsoever He wills to send astray, He makes his breast closed and constricted, as if he is climbing up to the sky. Thus Allaah puts the wrath on those who believe not”

    [al-An‘aam 6:125].

  69. Smat

    Silly woman Eman Al-Najfan. instead of your silly demand to drive, just try to offer or make a good product to the huminity. You weaste your time in chatting with westerners. Your ultimate goal in life is “To Drive”. How silly is that!!! Do/ Creat/ Make/ Manufacture somthing instead of dedecating yourself for such demand. weak up Eman, driving is not a good objective to live for it. I think educating your 3 kids is better than running for driving.

  70. Monica

    Smat wrote “You weaste your time in chatting with westerners”.. I’m a western one. Maybe Smat don’t know I’m not an animal, but I belong to the Human Race. Thank you Eman to “weaste” your time with me and people like me. You represent one of the rare “gate” beween our two cultures. In your blog I can find new points of views and opinions different from mine, new ideas, or concepts never heard before. Your blog is “food for brains”. To appreciate it, people need to be open-mind, without prejudice, curious and available to dialogue. Smat isn’t.

  71. Malik

    Why have you stopped posting, SaudiWoman ? Are you being prevented from posting ???

  72. abujubair

    When the people talk about something sensible I will return. When I say sensible I mean that some people on this blog claim islaam but when you argue with them from islaam (kindly) they bring no authentic Islaamic proofs from qur’aan and sunnah, just base whims and desires. It is a well known Islaamic principle that Muslims don’t think, act, speak, or believe just anything concerning our faith, proof proceeds everything, and we don’t put intellect over Allah and his messenger: whether we are in 2011, 2050, or the year 5050(in sha-allah).

  73. abujubair

    I do check in daily. I don’t argue just for the sake of arguing. Tired of the massive x1,000,000+ mis-information that is out their concerning islaam and the Muslims. We can expect that from the kuffar, atheists, and hypocrites because that is their(intentional) job. But those who claim islaam add to this confusion, and when you bring them(the muslms) clear proof; proof that needs little explanation from other Islaamic sources, they cringe and freeze up, and they don’t respond. There are many deities that are worshiped besides Allah(the creator), all of them are not worthy of that worship(false, including Jesus the prophet, son of Mary the virgin) since they don’t create, and worship is only for Allah alone, and know that Allah is not to be worshiped except with that he sent a prophet or messenger with, and the last message was given to the last messenger and his name is Muhammad the son of Abdullah. This is islaam, negation and affirmation.
    Know that the qur’aan is the criteria by which the jews and christians, and all of humanity are judged(surah al furqan). Allah explains fully in the qur’aan their disbelief in him and his messengers(including the message of Jesus the son of Mary), and their disbelief is in their servitude to him alone, no partner. Just because they believe in Allah existence does not make them believers. Allah announced his displeasure in them because they do not worship him alone, and they ascribe partners to him, including a son. Known as the trinity, and they switched their books around, lied and said it was from Allah, and learned christians will testify to this. I can go on, and on, and on, and on……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
    Allah says in surah Al-Furqan:1 “Blessed is He who sent down the Criterion upon His Servant(Muhammad) that he may be to the worlds a warner -“

  74. Sandy

    So why can Muslims marry Christians then? Why did the prophet let the Christians from Najran pray IN THE MOSQUE and make treaties with them? FYI, the Christians of Najran were trinitarian (as were the VAST majority of Christians in the area- including the ones in Ethiopia whom provided refuge for the early Muslim community) and believed Jesus was God so please forgive me if I think Allah and the prophet were/are more understanding than you.

  75. abujubair

    First of all the qur’aan and sunnah do not cross paths, both are revelation from Allah. Allah has allowed marriage to the chase women from the people of the book(jews and christians only) proof, “This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you, when you have given them their due compensation(dowry), desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith – his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.” (surah al-ma’idah:3)
    So Allah has made it permissible to marry “chase” women from the people of the book. Chaste meaning a wholesome, religious women(hard to find in today’s western societies) who is not known to fornicate or commit adultery(sex outside marriage), if she had sex it was in marriage, or she is a virgin.This what the scholars of islaam have defines chaste as. And food of the people of the book is also lawful; except of course swine and alcohol which they have made permissible for themselves, so there are conditions…….

  76. abujubair

    There is plenty condition to this marriage contract here a major one, if a Muslim man was to find a woman of this caliber he cannot love her “wholly” Allah says in the qur’aan, “You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day having affection for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even if they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred. Those – He has decreed within their hearts faith and supported them with spirit from Him. And We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally. Allah is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him – those are the party of Allah . Unquestionably, the party of Allah – they are the successful.” (al-mujadilah:22)
    So if the muslim cannot love his disbelieving father, son, or brother etc, what about the disbelieving wife.?? The muslim husband has to raise the children on islaam, not her deen(way of life), there plenty more conditions…..

  77. abujubair

    As for peace treaties, islaam is not the war-mongering religion as the islamaphobes, and ignorant ones state, and propagate it to be.It is permissible to have peace treaties with the kuffar, and polytheists(same thing almost) As for the peace that he had with the christians in Narjan, Saudia Arabia, contrary to popular belief Islaam does not command that the kuffar be forced to accept islaam, the christians who lived in Narjan and other parts of Saudi had a peace treaty with the Allah and his Messenger up to the following verse was revealed, Allah says, “O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.(9:28)
    Up to the revelation of this verse they were allowed in Makkah and Medinah,. Allah then ordered them to be expelled for ever from these two cities. But this does not mean that we act treacherous towards them, break treaties, shed their blood without just cause, nor does it for bid us to act kindly to our kaafir neighbors. However they are “not” to held on the same level as the Muslims. Equality is a term that is found nowhere in the qur’aan Allah say , ““Verily, Allaah enjoins Al‑‘Adl (i.e. justice)”(nahl:90) also, “and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice”(4:58)
    Shaikh Uthaimeen says “Those who say that Islam is the religion of equality are lying against Islam. Rather Islam is the religion of justice which means treating equally those who are equal and differentiating between those who are different”.

    No one who knows the religion of Islam would say that it is the religion of equality. Rather what shows you that this principle is false is the fact that most of what is mentioned in the Qur’aan denies equality, as in the following verses:

    ‘Say: Are those who know equal to those who know not?”

    [al-Zumar 39:9]

    ‘Say: Is the blind equal to the one who sees? Or darkness equal to light?(Ar-Rad:16)’
    Shaikh Uthaimeen brings more proof, ‘Not equal among you are those who spent and fought before the conquering (of Makkah, with those among you who did so later’

    [al-Hadeed 57:10]

    ‘Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allaah with their wealth and their live’

    [al-Nisa’ 4:95]

    Not one single letter in the Qur’aan enjoins equality, rather it enjoins justice. You will also find that the word justice is acceptable to people, for I feel that if I am better than this man in terms of knowledge, or wealth, or piety, or in doing good, I would not like for him to be equal to me.

    Every man knows that he find it unacceptable if we say that the male is equal to the female.”

    Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitah, 1/180-181

    Based on this, Islam does not regard men and women as equal in matters where regarding them as equal would result in injustice to one of them, because equality that is inappropriate is a severe form of injustice.

  78. abujubair

    Never said that men are smarter than women. Everyone has a different intellect. The female sahaba’s are smarter(religiously) than the majority of men. But Allah has choose men to maintain and sustain the women. Women are not retarded at all but do posses are deficient in their intellects. Proof??

    Shaykh Abdul-Azeez ibn Baaz
    Reference: Majmoo’ Fatawaa Wa Maqalaat Mutanawi’ah. Vol. 3/292
    Translator: Shadeed Muhammad, Abu Az-Zubayr

    We often hear the noble Hadeeth “Women are deficient in their intelligence and in their Deen” and some men use this Hadeeth as a form of

    belittlement towards the women. We desire from you O noble shaykh, clarification of the meaning of this Hadeeth?

    The meaning of the Hadeeth of the Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam):

    “I have never seen anyone with a deficiency of ‘Aql (intellect) and Deen (religion) who are more overpowering to men than one of you [women].”

    So it was said:

    “O Messenger of Allaah, what is the deficiency in her intelligence?”

    He said:

    “Isn’t the witness of two women equal to that of one man?”

    So it was said:

    “What is the deficiency in her Deen?”

    So he said:

    “Isn’t it the case that if she is menstruating she doesn’t pray or fast?”

    So the Messenger (sal-Allaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam) clarified that the deficiency of her intellect was from the angle of her weak memory and that her testimony is strengthened with the testimony of another woman. This is because of the preciseness of the witness (in Islaam) and because she could
    forget and make an addition or deletion to the testimony. Just as Allaah says:

    {And bring forth two witnesses from your own men. If there are not two men (available) then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs then the other can remind her…} [2282]

    As for deficiency in her Deen, then it is because during her state of menstruation and post-partum bleeding, she abandons the Salaat and fasting, and she doesn’t make up the salaat. This is from the deficiency in her Deen. But this deficiency is not blameworthy upon her. Rather it is a deficiency,
    which happens as a result of that which Allaah had decreed for her and this was done in a manner of leniency and easiness towards her. For if she
    were to fast in a state of menstruation or in a state of postpartum bleeding it would harm her. So from the Mercy of Allaah (towards women) He has
    legislated for her to abandon the fast at the time when she is menstruating or in a state of Nifaas, and to make up the fast afterwards.

    As for the salaat, then without a doubt, the state of menstruation prevents her from purification. So from the mercy of Allaah, He legislated for her to
    abandon her prayer and likewise in the state of Nifaas. He also legislated for her not to make it up, because in making up the (Salaat) is difficulty,
    because the Salaat is tremendous, and repetitious, five times throughout the night and day, and the days of menstruation can be plentiful, sometimes
    seven or eight days or more than that. And the Nifaas could reach 40 days. So from the mercy of Allaah upon her and from His Ihsaan (doing good)
    towards her is that He removed the Salaat from her whether it be the initial Salaat or the make-up. And this does not necessitate that her intelligence
    is deficient in everything! Nor that her Deen is deficient in everything! But indeed the Messenger (saw) clarified that the deficiency in her intelligence
    is from that which happens to her from the lack of precision in her memory and testimony, and that the deficiency in her Deen is from the fact that she
    leaves off the prayer and fasting at the time of her menses or in the state of Nifaas. Also this doesn’t necessitate that she is less than a man in
    everything! or the fact that the man is better in everything! Yes, generally the male gender is better than the gender of the females generally for
    many reasons. Just as Allaah the High and Sublime says:

    {Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend their wealth (to support them)…} [434]

    But she can surpass him, sometimes, in many things. And by Allaah how many women surpass many men in their intelligence, Deen and precision! But verily that which is narrated on the Messenger (sal-Allaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam) is that the women are surpassed by men, generally, in intelligence
    and in the religion only. There can proceed from her many righteous actions, in which, she can surpass the men and in her Taqwah of Allaah, Azza
    Wa Jall, and in her station in the hereafter.

    There could be some affairs that she places great importance on and is precise in them more so than the precision of a man. There are many issues,
    which she carefully considers, and is diligent in memorizing and precise in. She would become the foundation in Islaamic history and point of
    reference in many affairs and this is clear to those who ponder and reflect on the state of the women during the time of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu
    ‘alayhe wa sallam) and after that. With this it should be understood that this deficiency should not prevent her from being treated equally in her
    narrations and in her testimony, if it is strengthened with the testimony of another woman. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that it (this deficiency)
    should prevent her from having Taqwah of Allaah and the fact that she could be from the most virtuous slaves of Allaah if she is upright in her Deen,
    even if the fasting and Salaat is not obligatory upon her at the time of menstruation and Nifaas rather this is a deficiency which is specific to the
    intellect and Deen just as the Messenger (sal-Allaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam) clarified. It is not appropriate that a believer should accuse her of being
    deficient in everything and weak in every area of her Deen, and its clarification is pertinent and important so that the speech of the Messenger is
    understood in it’s proper context and in the best possible manner and Allaah knows best.
    And again this is not belittling the women, this is what their(women) creator, and the creators messenger said about the women.

  79. abujubair

    The creator of the heavens and earth gave his creation(men and women) their rights and responsibilities. Obviously the creator knows what his best for his creation; he created it. As you would know what is best for something that you created; you cannot refute this common sense fact.!! If your Toyota car breaks down will you take it to Mercedes Benz dealer to get it fixed??? Please stop; because mankind does not what is best for himself; democracy, secular law etc.
    And it is a part of your husbands responsibility to make sure he teaches you, or facilitates the ways for you to learn your deen from authentic sources. Allah’s messenger used to take time out to teach the women, this was his example, so what about us.?? And I say authentic because Allah’s messenger warned us about the deviant ideologies that will emerge after his death.

  80. abujubair

    Also there “is” a “degree” of superiority of men over women. Allah chose men to messengers not women, women cannot be judges, in “some” cases two women witnesses are needed to equal to one of man. And place the women paradise or hell at the feet of her husband, so there is a “degree” of superiority. The true Muslim woman devotes herself to taking care of her house and husband. She knows her husband’s rights over her, and how great they are, as was confirmed by the Prophet’s words:

    “No human being is permitted to prostrate to another, but if this were permitted I would have ordered wives to prostrate to their husbands, because of the greatness of the rights they have over them.”(hadith saheeh) but also we have this hadeeth..

    A woman came to ask the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) about some matter, and when he had dealt with it, he asked her, “Do you have a husband?” She said, “Yes.” He asked her, “How are you with him?” She said, “I never fall short in my duties, except for that which is beyond me.” He said, “Pay attention to how you treat him, for he is your Paradise and your Hell.”13(hadeeth-saheeh)
    But also paradise is a t the feet of the mans mother!! But as stated in earlier posts Allah created nothing, no-one equal at all. Even twins have separate fingerprints, and personalities.

  81. Sandy

    Short answer- the “science” of Hadith is fundamentally flawed and many non-Wahabi/Salafi muslims realize this and do not interpret the Quran to serve the hadith- but rather know that when hadith contradict the justice and good meanings of the Quran they must be flawed.

    In spite of what you said that women can be just as knowledgeble religiously – you still think the husband needs to teach his wife. What if the wife knows more? Yes the prophet taught women- his communities didn’t practice gender segregation. The prophet taught EVERYONE. Aishah used to teach men and women. There were women scholars that taught men since the early ages of Islam. Why don’t you go learn about that? As for believing anything that Abu Haraira said, well, even many of the Sahaba found him untrustworthy-specifically in the transmission of hadith.
    I don’t “serve” my husband. I “serve” Allah. And my husband is quite satisfied with that. Most real men are- they don’t need to fabricate superiority and oppress women to feel good about their marriage and their life.
    Anyway, this whole conversation is tiresome. We obviously need to agree to disagree. I’m sure you think I’m a deviant and am therefore going to hell. You are welcome to believe so. I believe only Allah can judge a person based on the intention in their hearts- the knoweledge in their mind and the circumstances in their life. Only he can determine if a person has done what is required of them. Only he knows the inner jihads of a person. And that the result of HIS judgement may not always match what appears obvious to other people. And HIS judgement is the one that really matters.

  82. abujubair

    You are right from one angle but wrong from another. When a hadith contradicts the qur’aan, or other hadith the hadith is rejected. We can’t call the messenger of Allah a liar, so the narrator(s) in the isnaad(chain of narrators) is flawed. If someone trustworthy, religious, and righteous from amongst the Muslims brings news to you I know you will accept it(science of hadeeth). As for Abu Hurairah he narrated over 2,000 ahadeeth!! Many of them regarding wudoo, and prayer. He narrated more hadeeth than ‘Aisha, your speech resembles the Shia’, or the qur’anniyyoon(those who only follow qur’aan and very few or none of the ahadeeth). It is impossible for an “authentic” to contradict the qur’aan, impossible. The sunnah explains the qur’aan, Allah says in surah An-Najm, Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,

    Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.

    It is not but a revelation revealed,
    So here we have allah saying that his messenger does not speak from his own desires, he only speaks based off revelation. If the sunnah/hadith cannot be used as proof why did Allah refer mankind to obey and follow the messenger.
    The sunnah clarifies the qur’aan, makes specific what Allah made general. The fact that tattooing is haraam is not mentioned in the Qur’aan at all, men not wearing gold is not mentioned either; but it is mentioned in the sunnah. The sunnah clarifies the qur’aan Allah says in Surah An-Nahl:44, “And We revealed to you(Muhammad) the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.” The verse proves that the sunnah of Muhammad clarifies, and explains the qur’aan, so our understanding would be severely hindered if Abu Hurairah was a liar as “you” said because he narrated more hadeeth that any-other sahabah.!!!!!! You call Abu Hurairah a liar?? Well Allah said about the forefathers(salaf) of the ummah, ” And the first forerunners [in the faith] among the Muhajireen and the Ansar and those who followed them with good conduct – Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. That is the great attainment.”(9:100)
    This includes Abu Hurairah because he from the righteous salaf(forerunners, forefathers)
    And understand that “all” actions are based on intentions, the action proves the intention. No action without an intention, except the one imbisil, or the crazy person. We judge in Islaam, Allah ordered to judge with his religion the he revealed to Muhammad. You are ignorant at best, I have no right to call you deviant, that is for the scholars. You are out of line for criticizing Abu Hurairah after Allah praised him, you don’t want to judged but you judge Abu Hurairah after Allah azza wa jalla said he was pleased with him and the rest of the companions, you are implying that Allah is lying, or made a mistake on Abu Hurairah. This is your action based of your intention, and you are a liar and Allah speaks the truth.!!!!

  83. abujubair

    Also, If you serve you husband (as you have been commanded) that is obedience to Allah, because you are obeying the Messenger, and Allah said,”He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away – We have not sent you over them as a guardian.”(4:80) and also, Allah says, “It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.” But if your husband does not want you to “obey, and serve” him o.k. that his choice, but dont say that the women do not have to obey their husbands in that which is only good. And i use the word “obey” and “serve” on purpose, just like the children have to obey their parents, and the men have to obey their lord, and his messenger. Everyone must obey someone, this is Islaam and life.

  84. abujubair

    Stop trying to make equal those whom Allah has distiguished(men/women). Islaam is a deen of justice not equality. And start using the religion(show you proofs) to argue not your opinion. There is only of manhaj(path) and one aqeedah(belief) that Allah said he is pleased with and that is the way of the pious predecessors(the salaf saalih).
    As for Muhammad ibn Adul Wahhab and the term wahhabis, if you want to go there with that I will clarify, and refute your doubts succinctly.

  85. abujubair

    Browse by Volume Number > Volume 3 > Ruling on driving a car by a woman
    (Part No. 3; Page No. 351)
    Ruling on female driving of cars

    All praise be to Allah, Alone. May peace and blessings be upon the Messenger of Allah.

    There has been a lot of discussion in the Jazirah Magazine regarding female driving of cars. Evils and temptations of this measure are well known to everyone including those who call for it. For example, this entails unlawful Khulwah (being alone with a member of the opposite sex), unveiling the face, careless and free intermixing (of men and women), and committing adultery which is the main reason for the prohibition of these practices. Allah’s Sacred Shari`ah (Law) forbids all means leading to unlawful actions and makes them Haram (prohibited) in themselves. Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) commanded the wives of the Prophet and all believing women to remain in their homes and to wear their Hijab (veil) if they must go out for some need. He also commands women not to display their beauty to anyone other than their Mahram (husband or unmarriageable relative), as it will inevitably lead to licentiousness that can devastate the entire community. Allah (Exalted be He) states: And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salât (Iqamât-as-Salât), and give Zakât and obey Allâh and His Messenger…
    Allah (Exalted be He) also says: O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. Allah (Exalted be He) also says: And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyûbihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.
    (Part No. 3; Page No. 352)
    The Prophet (peace be upon him) also said: No man sits alone with a woman except that Satan is the third party. Allah’s Sacred Shari`ah (Law) prohibits all things that lead to vice. Similarly, Allah prohibited Qadhf (falsely accusing a chaste person of involvement in prohibited sexual relations) and decreed severe punishment for those who spread it in order to protect the Muslim community from this evil.
    Allowing women to drive contributes to the downfall of the society. This is well known; however, ignorance of legal rulings and the disastrous consequences of vice results in harmful lenience, as does the negligence of the advocates of licentiousness who enjoy looking at Ajnabiyyat (woman lawful for the man to marry). This leads to scandals and indifference to impending evils. He (Exalted be He) says: Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): “(But) the things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are Al-Fawâhish (great evil sins and every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse) whether committed openly or secretly, sins (of all kinds), unrighteous oppression, joining partners (in worship) with Allâh for which He has given no authority, and saying things about Allâh of which you have no knowledge.” Allah (Exalted be He) also says: And follow not the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan). Verily, he is to you an open enemy. He [Shaitân (Satan)] commands you only what is evil and Fahshâ (sinful), and that you should say against Allâh what you know not.
    The Prophet (peace be upon him) stated: I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women. It is also reported that Hudhayfah ibn Al-Yaman (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The people used to ask Allah’s Messenger about good, but I used to
    (Part No. 3; Page No. 353)
    ask him about evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, “O Allah’s Messenger! We were in ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will there by any evil after this good?” He said, “Yes.” I asked, “Will there be good after that evil?” He said, “Yes, but it would be tainted with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil).” I asked, “What will its Dakhan be?” He said, “There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them.” I said, “Will there by any evil after that good?” He said, “Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the gates of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them).” I said, “O Allah’s Messenger! Describe those people to us.” He said, “They will belong to us and speak our language.” I asked, “What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?” He said, “Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief.” I asked, “If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?” He said, “Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state.” (Agreed upon by Al-Bukhari and Muslim).
    I call upon every Muslim to fear Allah and be upright in their words and deeds. Muslims must also beware of these Fitan (temptations) and their advocates. I also urge everyone to refrain from what brings the wrath of Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) or leads to it. I ask all Muslims to be greatly aware of the advocates of these Fitan against whom the Prophet (peace be upon him) warns in his Hadith. May Allah protect us all from the evils of these Fitan, and their advocates and supporters. May He (Glorified and Exalted be He) preserve Islam for this Ummah (nation based on one creed) and protect it from the evil mongers. I also supplicate Allah to guide our journalists and all Muslims to what pleases Him (Glorified and Exalted be He) and leads to our welfare in this life and salvation in the Hereafter. He is the Waliy (Protector, Supporter, and Helper) and the most Able to do this.
    May Allah’s Peace and Blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.

  86. abujubair

    I live in the United States of America (the land of disbelief), and you cannot tell me that women driving is a pure trial for men, as even the Muslim women who wear the(correct Islaamic hijaab, not a khimaar and pants) flip up their niqabs while driving, which invites and id a fitnah on(most) men. The foundation of the woman is the house, bottom it is clearly in the verse, travelling outside is only for necessity, where there is genuine need. And you cannot compare the character of the female sahabah to these women of today; worlds apart. I got more proof for you;
    Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 3/351-353.

    Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen was asked: I hope you can explain the ruling on women driving cars. And what is your opinion on the idea that women driving cars is less dangerous than their riding with non-mahram drivers?

    The answer to this question is based on two principles which are well known among the Muslim scholars:

    The first principle is: that whatever leads to haraam is itself haraam. The evidence for this is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allaah, lest they insult Allaah wrongfully without knowledge”

    [al-An’aam 6:108]

    So Allaah forbids insulting the gods of the mushrikeen – even though that serves an interest – because it leads to insults against Allaah.

    The second principle is: that warding off evil – if it is equal to or greater than the interests concerned – takes precedence over bringing benefits. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit”

    [al-Baqarah 2:219]

    Allaah has forbidden alcohol and gambling even though there is some benefit in them, so as to ward off the evils that result from them.

    Based on these two principles, the ruling on women driving should be clear, because women driving includes a number of evils, including the following:

    1 – Removal of hijab, because driving a car involves uncovering the face which is the site of fitnah and attracts the glance of men. A woman is only regarded as beautiful or ugly on the basis of her face, i.e., if it is said that she is beautiful or ugly, people only think in terms of her face. If something else is meant it must be specified, so that one would say that she has beautiful hands or beautiful hair or beautiful feet. Hence it is known that the face is the focal point. If someone were to say that a woman can drive a car without taking off her hijab, by covering her face and wearing dark glasses over her eyes, the answer to that is that this is not what really happens when women drive cars. Ask those who have seen them in other countries. Even if we assume that this could be applied initially, it would not last for long, rather the situation would soon become as it is in other countries where women drive. This is how things usually develop; they start out in an acceptable fashion then they get worse.

    2 – Another evil consequence of women driving cars is that they lose their modesty, and modesty is part of faith as is narrated in a saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Modesty is the noble characteristic that befits the nature of women and protects them from being exposed to fitnah. Hence it is mentioned in a metaphorical sense (in Arabic), in the phrase “more modest than a virgin in her seclusion.” Once a woman’s modesty is lost, do not ask about her.

    3 – It also leads to women going out of the house a great deal, but their homes are better for them – as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said – because those who love to drive enjoy it very much, hence you see them driving around in their cars here and there for no purpose, except to enjoy driving.

    4 – You may find a divorced woman going where she wants, whenever she wants and however she wants, for whatever purpose she wants, because she is alone in her car, at any time she wants of the day or night. She may stay out until late at night. If people are complaining about this with regard to young men, then what about young women, going all over the place the length and breadth of the country, and maybe even beyond its borders.

    5 – It is a means of women rebelling against their families and husbands; at the least provocation they may go out of the house and drive in the car to wherever they think they can get some peace, as happens in the case of some young men, who are able to put up with more than women.

    6 – It is a cause of fitnah in many places: when stopping at the traffic lights, or at gas stations, or at inspection points, or when stopped by policemen at the scenes of traffic infractions or accidents, or if the car stalls and the woman needs help. What will her situation be in this case? Perhaps she may come across an immoral man who takes advantage of her in return for helping her, especially if her need is great to the point of urgency.

    7 – When women drive it leads to overcrowding in the streets, or it deprives some young men of the opportunity to drive cars when they are more deserving of that.

    8 – It causes fitnah to flourish because women – by their nature – like to make themselves look good with clothing etc. Do you not see how attached they are to fashion? Every time a new fashion appears they throw away what they have and rush to buy the new things, even if it is worse than what they have. Do you not see the adornments that they hang on their walls? In the same way – or perhaps more so – with the cars that they drive, whenever a new model appears they will give up the first for the new one.

    With regard to the questioner asking, “And what is your opinion on the idea that women driving cars is less dangerous than their riding with non-mahram drivers?” – what I think is that both of them involve danger, and one is more serious than the other in some ways, but there is no necessity that would require one to do either of them.

    Please note that I have answered this question at length because of the controversy that surrounds the issue of women driving cars, and the pressure faced by conservative Saudi society, which is striving to adhere to its religious commitment and morals, to allow women to drive cars.

    This would be nothing strange if it were to come from an enemy who seeks to cause harm this land which is the last bastion of Islam that the enemies of Islam wish to penetrate. But what is even stranger is that this is coming from our own people who speak our language and live under our banner, people who are dazzled by what the kaafir nations have of material advancement and admire their ways which are devoid of any moral restrictions.

    End quote from Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen.

  87. abujubair

    Also, ….According to a Hadith, narrated by Abu Hurairah (radhiyallahu anhu), Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) said: “I take oath by The Being Who has sent me with the Haqq (Truth)! The world will not come to an end until earthquakes, the descent of showers of stones (from the heaven) and disfigurement of faces (which will be transformed into apes and swines) had not taken place.’ The Sahaabah radiallahu anhum said: ‘When will that happen, O Rasulullah?’ He replied: ‘When you see women seated o­n saddles (i.e. riding horses and in this age, driving cars); when singing girls are to be found in profusion; when false testimony becomes rampant, and when homosexuality and lesbianism become prevalent.” (Bazzaar and Tabraani)

    And again the female sahabah are not comparable to today’s women they held way more piety, chastity, and taqwa(consciousness of Allah). It is well known that the further we get away from revelation the worst the people(men and women) become. At current we are 1433 years after revelation. There is your proof(s).

  88. Sandy

    That is the most ridiculously strung together collection of arguments I’ve ever heard. And Bin Baz is not an “Islamic source” you might want to check out some of his other more riduculous fatwas. Muslims women in EVERY COUNTRY manage to drive without all the nonsense you mention. And I’ll tell you something else- women (and men) who wish to behave badly do so even in Saudi- even when they don’t drive. Your “evidence” shows without doubt this is about controlling women. Yes some women will do wrong (and generally the wrong you refer too involves men who are equally guilty- funny you don’t advocate putting them in a golden cage) some people will always do wrong. And if Muslim men can manage to avoid fitnah when they see a woman’s eyes they are by far the weakest of men on the planet and should be staying home instead of punishing their women for that.

  89. abujubair

    In the book the sealed nectar, which is biography of Allah Messenger there is an account where Allah Messenger saw a women who caused him to go home and seek comfort with his wife. So i guess he is weak also?? Aisha also narrated that if Allah’s messenger saw the way the women were presenting themselves in public he would “not” have let them come to the Masjid; this was after his death. Look stop arguing with your emotions and desires and bring Islaamic proof; only. This is how we argue. Shaikh Bin Baz and Ash- Shaikh Uthaimeen brought forth their reasoning based on the evidences from qur’aan sunnah, and reasoning(based on qur’aan sunnah and perception). And how is it ridiculous, the majority of their arguments were based off of qur’aan sunnah; are you Muslim. I MUST ASK THIS BECAUSE ARE SOUNDING MORE JAAHIL WITH EACH ENTRY YOU ARE POSTING. The Place for the women is the home, bottom line. This is what the creator of the heavens and earth have stated for the women. Are you Muslim, when I ask you this I mean a Muslim who follows, believes in qur’aan and sunnah wholeheartedly and implements it into you lifestyle, action, dress etc…

    Women are a trial for men, even the religious men. In the west a womens body is used as a commodity to sells items that are used and consumed mainly by men(cars, beer, go-go bars, billboards, T.V. shows etc..) Dont tell me that women are not a fitnah, look at you, claiming islaam but denying it when it comes to you. So I guess what you are gonna say next is that the men should not look, and allow the women to come and go as they please, dressed however, huh??!!

    Is Bin Baz perfect; Nooo. But he strived to do his best with the qur’ aan and sunnah, and even if was wrong in some instances he still get the reward of striving along the right manhaj. Its clear that you believe in something(i think) that you have not totally accepted. How you believe in something, yet criticize that which you believe in, this is not faith. This is doubts and suspicions. And you probably have some left leaning scholar(s) that you went to find that supports your typical misguided progressive views. You went fatwa shopping to suit you.
    Look at these verses from the qur’aan,” Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût and believes in Allâh, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower.”
    [2: 256]
    So if they believe in the like of that which you believe; (Muhammad and the companions), then they are rightly guided, but if they turn away, then they are only in opposition. So Allâh will suffice you against them. And He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.
    [2: 137]
    And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers’ way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell – what an evil destination.
    [4: 115]

    Allah’s messenger said‘The best of people are my generation, then those who follow them, then those who follow them’ [al-Bukhari and Muslim]

    If the truth had been in accordance with their desires, verily, the heavens and the earth, and whosoever is therein would have been corrupted! Nay, We have brought them their reminder, but they turn away from their reminder.
    [23: 71

    And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification”

    You know what, im not even surprised that you criticize Bin Baz, look at what you said about Abu Hurairah, and Allah praised him(Abu Hurairah). This manhaj and aqeedah that you putting forward is not from Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaa’ah it sound more like the aqeedah manhaj of the 72 sects that Allah messenger warned us about. Or the call of the atheists, secularists,and/or the democracy people that Allah and his messenger warned us about. If you knew anything about Islaam (at all, if you are Muslim) you would use it(islaam) in your argumentation.

    Even Prophet Yusuf (Joseph) was tempted by the beauty of the wife Al-Azeez. Women are, has been, always will be a trial and a test for men religious or not. Allah and his messenger testified to this.

  90. Sandy

    OMG. You are soooo mysogynistic and you think Allah and the Prophet are too! I have no problem following what the Prophet and Allah have ordained. But I don’t believe A LOT of what is attributed to them and I certainly am not impressed by the “reasoning” of many scholars- and yes I also doubt the intentions of many, Only Allah knows what rewards they will get. Much is only very loosly based on anything in the Quran- a lot is from questionable hadiths and the “reasoning” supports what the mindless ignorant men already believe.

  91. Sandy

    You seem to forget how Khadija and Aisha lived their lives in all your “women belong in a cage” rantings. Anyway, I worship Allah not men. You can worship your hadith and your scholars- that’s your choice, and your innovations, but not mine.

  92. abujubair

    I told you that some ahadeeth(no the majority) are problematic when they contradict other ahadeeth or the qur’aan.If you follow Allah and his Messenger you would not be trying to gets rights for the women that Allah the all-wise(Al-Hakeem) did not give. Reasoning is permissible based off qur’aan and sunnah, only. The(our) intellect does not succeed Allah and his rasool. Women do not belong in a cage, Allah mentioned that their(women) foundation(asl) is the bait(house) and the majority of their blessing are in the house, not out trying to what men do.Should I mention that even a woman’s prayer is better in the than in the Masjid. I mentioned that one of Allah’s attributes is Al-Hakeem( the one who puts everything in its proper place with precision) what ever Allah has prescribed in the qur’aan or in the sunnah of his messenger contains wisdom, and justice. Allah says that he is the most just(Al-Adl).

    As for the rewards of the scholars of the sunnah look at what the messenger said, “If the judge/scholar makes ijtihaad and gets it right, he will have two rewards, and if he makes ijtihaad and gets it wrong, he will have one reward.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6919; Muslim, 1716) So the scholar who traverses the correct path to arrive at a decision and he is correct he will have two rewards written for him, if he traverses the correct path(manhaj) and is wrong he gets one reward written for him for following the correct manhaj.

    As for worshiping Allah that goes without saying but look, at the hadith In al-Musnad(of Imaam Ahmad) it is narrated from Anas that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not acceptable for any human to prostrate to another, but if it were acceptable for any human to prostrate to another, I would have ordered women to prostrate to their husbands, because of the greatness of the rights they have over them. By the One in Whose hand is my soul, if there were sores from his feet to the top of his head flowing with pus, then she licked them, she would not have given him all his rights.” This shows the greatness of right(s) of the husband over the wife.

    Allah ordered obedience to him and his messenger, the Messenger ordered the wives to obey their husbands, when you obey the messenger you have obeyed Allah, Allah says “O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger and those of you who are in authority. If you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.” [ 4:59]

    “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you as a watcher over them.”

    So Allah messenger ordered obedience from the wife toward the husband, and when she obeys her husband(only in that which is good) she obeys the messenger and worships and worships her Lord Allah t’ala.

    • Sandy

      And you think that pus hadith is real? Why didn’t Khadija stay in her house? Where did Allah say women get MORE reward for praying in a house.

  93. abujubair

    As for your issue with the science of hadeeth…..

    The Importance of Isnaad

    Author :al-Muhaddith Muqbil ibnul-Haady al-Wadiee
    Source : introduction to Asbaabun-anNuzool
    Translated By : Abul Hasan Maalik

    Certainly from the books of which Allah have made easy for me to write as-saaheeh al musnad min asbaab an nuzuul and certainly I praise Allah subhanau, for He has brought from it benefit and it has become a reference in this field. How many times have I returned to it in research, writing and teaching. During the writing I related some hadeeths in following the [main] hadeeth of the chapter without the chain of narration. I wanted in this print of the book to bring the chains of narration [for these hadeeths ] in what has been made easy for me. For there may have been a hadeeth perhaps I related the [main] point of the hadeeth only, so I decided to mention the hadeeth in its entirety. As for mentioning the hadeeth in it’s entirety, because of what is in it from the many benefits. As for mentioning the sanad, certainly our Ulema, May Allah has mercy upon them, would not accept a hadeeth except with its isnaad. Al Haafidh al ‘Alaae said, may Allah have mercy upon him, in Jamiat- Tahseel pg. 58, and in Saheeh Muslim on Ibn Seereen “They didn’t use to ask about the isnaad but when the fitnah [1] came they would say, “name for us your men”. So look at ahlus- sunnah and accept their hadeeth and look at ahlul bidah and do not accept their hadeeth”. Sufyaan Ibn Uyanah said, Az-Zuhri narrated a hadeeth one day; so I said to him, “ Bring it without the isnaad ”. So he said, “ ascend the roof without a ladder?!” Baqiyah said,’ Utbah Ibn Abi Haakeem narrated to us that he was with Ishaaq Ibn Abi Farwah and with him Az- Zuhri. So Ibn Abi Farwahsaid, the Messenger of Allah Sallallahu Alaihi wa sallam said………., so Zuhri said “Qaatalakaallah”[2] what prevented you from bringing the isnaad of your hadeeth? Will you narrate to us hadeeth without any reigns or muzzle?!”

    Abdus Samad Ibnul Hasaan said I heard Sufyaan AtThawree say, “ The isnaad is the weapon of the believer. So if he does not have a weapon then what will he fight with?”

    An Shu’ba said, “Every hadeeth that does not have haddathanaa or akhbaranaa [3] then it is herbs and vinegar”. In Saheeh Muslim also, on ‘Abdaan he said, “ I heard Ibnul Mubaaraak say, “The isnaad with me is from the deen. If not for isnaad whoever pleased could say whatever he pleased.”

    On ‘Abaas Ibn Abi Ruzma he said, “I heard Abdullah, meaning Ibnul Mubaaraak, say, “Between us and the people is the isnaad.”

    On Ibaraaheem Ibnul ‘Esa At-Talaqaani say, “ I said to ‘Abdullah Ibnul Mubaarak, “Oh Aba Abdur-Rahmaan, the hadeeth if which comes, “Certainly from al birr after al birr is to pray for your parents with your salat and to fast for them with your fast”. Abdullah said “ Oh Aba Ishaaq, from who is this hadeeth ”? I said, “ It is from the hadeeth of Shihab Ibn Kharaash ”. He said, “ He is trustworthy on who ”? I said “on Al Hajaaj Ibnud- Dinaar”. He said, “ He is trustworthy on who ”? I said, “ He said the Prophet, sallallahu alaihi wa sallam, said……….” He said (Ibnul Mubaaraak) “ Oh Aba Ishaaq! Between Al Hajaaj and the Prophet is a desert that would break the necks of the riding beasts! But there is no difference of opinion with regards to sadaqah”.

    Shu’bah ibn al-Hajjaaj, may Allah have mercy upon him, heard from his Sheikh Abee Ishaaq As-Sabee’i, ‘Amr ibn Abdillah, the hadeeth of Abdullah ibn ‘Ataa from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir in the virtue of Isbaaghul-wudhu. [4] So he asked Abu Ishaaq, “did Abdullah ibn Ataa hear it from Uqbah ibn Aamir?” So Abu Ishaaq became angry at this. Then Mas’ar ibn Kidaam said to Shu’bah “ Abdullah ibn’ataa is in Mecca ”. So he [Shu’bah] traveled to meet him. Shu’bah said, “ I traveled to Mecca not intending Al-hajj but seeking the Hadeeth. I met ‘Abbullah ibn ‘Ataa and I asked him [about the hadeeth] and he said “ S’ad ibn Ibraheem narrated it to me ”. Then Maalik ibn Anas said to me “ S’ad ibn Ibraheem did not make Hajj and is in Al- Madeenah ”. So I traveled to Al-Madeenah and I met S’ad ibn Ibraheem, and I asked him [about the Hadeeth] He said “ The Hadeeth with you was narrated to me by Ziyaad ibn Mikhraaq ”. Shu’ba said, “ So when he mentioned Ziyaad I said, what is this! The Hadeeth began Kufi then became Makki and then Basri!(various cities) So I traveled to Basrah and met Ziyaad ibn Mikhraaq and I asked him [about the Hadeeth] He said, “ Shahr ibn Hawshab narrated to me on Abee Reehaanah from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir on the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa sallam. Shu’bah said, “ When he mentioned Shahr ibn Hawshab [5] I said, Shahr has ruined it! If the likes of this Hadeeth had been authentic on the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam it would have been more beloved to me then my wealth and family and all of mankind!

    Abu Abdir-Rahmaan [Sheikh Muqbil] said, So with this those who leave off the chains of narration from their books and collect the the hadeeths without them are considered doing an injustice to the science [of hadeeth] and to our Salif as-saalih those of whom went to great effort in the pursuit of the chains of narration and traveling for their purpose. So because of this our brothers strive to bring the chains of narration and praise be to Allah have found acceptance amongst the researchers, and all praise is due to Allah Lord of all the worlds.

    [1] This is a reference to when bid’ah fell into the deen and the people begun to narrate that which supported their innovation. Al ‘Allamah Almua’llami states in his book ‘Ilmur-rijaal wa Ahammiyyatuhu pg. 19-20. As for the tabi’een their speech in regards to at-t’adeel is abundant and there is little narrated on them from al-jarh and that is because of that generation’s nearness to the “Guiding Lamp” -upon him and his family peace and blessings- and there was not one from the Muslims who would dare invent a lie upon Allah and His Messenger. So the majority of the weak narrators of the tabieen were made weak because of their being from the Khawarij or due to poor memory or being unknown. Then came the period of the Atbaa’ At-Tabieen, and there increased [ the number of ] weak narrators, the heedless, the liars and az-zanaadiqah. So the Imaams (of hadeeth) took on the task of clarification of the condition of the narrators, and forfeiting that which was not authentic. There was not a land from the lands of the Muslims, except in it were a group from the Imaams (of hadeeth) examining the narrators and their condition and the condition of their narrations; following up their every movement and informing the people of their ruling upon them”.

    [2] Literally “May Allah fight you!” though it is used here as a means of upbraiding to show the severity of narrating on the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam without isnaad

    [3] Literally “he reported to us” or “he informed us”.

    [4] To make a complete and proper wudhu

    [5] Muhaddith Al-A’sr Sheikh Muhammad Nasirud-Deen Al-Albaani mentions in Tamaamul-Minnah pg. 166-167: “ He is weak due to his poor memory and confusion in his narrations as it becomes apparent to anyone who follows them up and researched the statments of the Imaams [of Hadeeth] about him”.

  94. abujubair

    If you need more info on the science of hadeeth, i am more than glad to oblige.

  95. Sandy

    I’m not interested in what these men have to say about hadith. What did the Prophet say about writing down his sayings? Where does the Quran talk about waiting 200 years and then writing down the oral tradition and using Isnad (among other things) to determine what is accurate or not. Where do either Allah in his revelation or the Prophet mention Bukhari? Or lay out the “science” of hadith? Hadith can be useful- but they are being used by people like those you follow , to innovate ways to control and subject people .

  96. abujubair

    As for me hating women, you just slandered me and I ask you to retract your statement, and make taubah(repent) I have a mother, wives, and daughters(muslim and non-muslim). I love women, cannot live without them.
    However, Allah has guided and instructed mankind to what is best for us, in every scripture that he has revealed(jews and christians) the women were always told to obey their husbands. This is nothing new to the creation.

    What i do hate is the secularist, democratic ideology that has alot of women confused with their roles in society. Women are so confused now that alot of women are not even getting married, some have actually dropped out of churches, synogouges, and the masaajid because they wanna be “liberated” free women who do their own thing. When non-muslim women want to accept islaam they are immediately threatened with two facts from islaam that are meant to deter them; 1.that she obey a man(her husband in that which is good) 2. that she must wear the hijaab. So the women are confused, and to honest with you’ and i hear this from the women(alot); is that you women are harder, and way more petty on each other than the men are.

    So I do hate man-made laws when they are in contradiction to the divine revelation from Allah, it confuses the men and women. Most Westerners will accept certain aspects of secularism, and democracy that actually contradicts their religion. Issues like abortion,usury, worship, etc…

  97. abujubair

    If you read what i sent you it shows that the writing was during his time,….

  98. abujubair

    I sent this to you already Allah says, “He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away – We have not sent you over them as a guardian.”(4:80)
    as for the woman prayer being better in the house, with regard to women, their prayer offered at home is better, because of the hadeeth of Umm Salamah: “The best places of prayer for women are the innermost parts of their houses.” Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 6/297; classed as hasan by the editors of al-Musnad. So allah ordered the women to stay in, and his messenger said their(women) prayer is better in the house.

    Woww, and shes a woman saying this, umm salamah.!!

    • Sandy

      I am underwhelmed. One woman in a hadith rated “hasan” determines all this? That is barely evidence that it was maybe even said by this woman let alone the prophet.

  99. Sandy

    I never said you hate women. You certainly don’t seem to respect them however. You chose to believe the version of Islam (and yes there are clearly different versions) that makes them subject to men. Maybe Muslim women wouldn’t be so reluctant to marry etc if Muslim men knew how to behave themselves, and control their urges and not always repress women because they can’t behave themselves. I know women that won’t marry because they believe “no soul can bear the burden of another” and yet know the Muslim men they are aware of will try in every way to control them. That the men that are supposed to help them in a difficult world- instead of insuring their rights- and making sure they can earn a living if need be, and drive a car, and get an education, get medical help, not be physically or emotionally abused, will instead use their advantage to oppress instead. Maybe everyone needs to grow up and behave. Everyone needs to learn to behave with dignity. And those that can’t, men or women are the ones that should stay home.

    I’m done with this now. It is clear we see things differently. You to your way- me to mine. Cling to your black/white understandings that these sorts of “scholars” propogate. The world that Allah created is much more than the tiny bit they seem aware of.

    You live in the west and enjoy all it’s benefits while people in Muslim countries suffer and would give anything to be in your place.

  100. abujubair

    How can you argue and not read what you are being refuted with. Bukahri was a man who collected ahadeeth, he and Imaam Muslim collected only authentic ahadeeth in the collections. They would only rely on people who were trustworthy, reliable, good character, religious, not known to liars, fornicators etc. Allah says in surah Al-Hujuraat:6, “O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.”

    So if Allah allows news/reports/information to be accepted by an evil doer as long as the news/information is verified, well what about the men and women who are religiously upright, who witnessed the qur’aan being revealed, who prayed, ate, traveled with, had sex with(wives), fought jihaad along sife of Allah’s messenger.?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The sunnah, which includes ahadeeth is islaam and islaam is the sunnah.
    The Imaaam of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah of his time, Abu Muhammad Al-Hasan ibn ‘Alee ibn Khalaf Al-Barbahaaree (may Allah have mercy on him) said: Know that Islam is the Sunnah, and the Sunnah is Islaam and one of them cannot be established without the other.”

  101. Sandy

    Hadeeth does not necessarily equate with Sunnah and this belief is part of how Islam has strayed so far. I am not saying Bukhari was not well intentioned. I assume he was. But he lived 200 years after the fact. I doubt any source that makes it’s case 200 years after the fact. There is no way he could really know the charactars of all the people in a chain. And there is no way to really know how authentic something might be. So those things that go against justice- or seem to reflect particular political views, or seem to promote oppresiion of people- all of these don’t agree with the spirit of the Quran. And the Quran is the most important. I find it interesting one of the Bukhari hadith often quoted about the meaning of dreams includes Muhammed visiting a friends house and falling asleep with his head in her lap. That’s right HER lap. And it apparently wasn’t a big deal. And have you ever read what Aishah- since you quoted her earlier- said about Abu Hurairah? It is not as clear as you would like to believe that Hadeeth=Sunnah.

  102. abujubair

    I dont know how old you are but one thing that is natural in men is to be in charge, and Allah has given men that power but power can corrupt the individual(men, women) or the a group of people(United States). Power can corrupt its possessor. Allah messenger has ordered the men to kind to the women, Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: “Take my advice with regard to women: Act kindly towards women, for they were created from a rib, and the most crooked part of a rib is its uppermost. If you attempt to straighten it; you will break it, and if you leave it alone it will remain crooked; so act kindly toward women”.
    [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

    In another narration found in the saheeh Muslim, Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said: ‘Woman has been created from a rib and will in no way be straightened for you; so if you want to benefit from her, you will benefit from her while crookedness remains in her. If you attempt to straighten her, you will break her, and breaking her is divorcing her”

    Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “A believer must not hate (his wife) believing woman; if he dislikes one of her characteristics he will be pleased with another”.

    Abdullah bin `Amr bin Al-`as (May Allah be pleased with them) reported: Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “The world is but a (quick passing) enjoyment; and the best enjoyment of the world is a pious and virtuous woman”.

    What you are saying is correct in some of the men, we go overboard in the trust, and power given to us by Allah. And just because a woman has an oppressive husband does not mean that she leaves her house. As for those Muslims who want live here in the West, they are backwards, how could you leave the land of tawheed for the lands of the kuffar, and the secularists. The problem is that no-one learns, knows their religion; this the majority. I see the Arabs when they come here. Tell the Muslim women to marry religious men only, even if they are poor men. Because the nature of man is oppressive to himself and others. But Allah and his Messenger forbid oppression.

  103. abujubair

    the nature of mankind(men and women) is that we are oppressive to ourselves(is what i meant to say). But sometimes a oppressive ruler, or husband can be a punishment, or a test. Allah said that he will test us with fear, loss of wealth, sickness, and various trial and tribulations. The reward is for the patient.

  104. Sandy

    Then how bout men be patient with women who are allowed to drive? They can get their “reward” from Allah later. Muslim men are ALWAYS saying that about women’s suffering. That is soooo old and worn out.

    The rib hadeeth is borrowed straight from Christianity- though muslims made it a bit less flattering to women. Of course it’s clearly Bollocks if you look into it.

    Anyway, enjoy living in cosy America where you are free to whine and whinge about their immorality and horribleness while your brothers and especially sisters in faith living in Islamic lands have no such luxury. Try to be patient with all that awfulness and maybe Allah will reward you.

    I am the daughter of a man, sister of men, cousin of men, wife of a man, and the mother of men. And they all know how to relate to women better than this warped portrayal of the Islamic relationship between the genders you present.

  105. Sandy

    Ah. And if I read correctly you are in violation of the law and have multiple wives. If any of those marriages is legal- not just religious you have given a huge advantage to one and are not treating them equally. And if any of them disagreed to another wife being added- you have treated them unequally by allowing one to choose the situation and not the others. And you have made life difficult for your children. You may not see that now- but that will become evident. And if any of them feel you wronged their mother- well hopefully the women were all in agreement. Personally I don’t care what consenting adults do- but it isn’t Islamically valid because the Quran clearly states its requirements regarding polygamy in the context of war widows and orphans- though I know your clever scholars have managed to change that.
    Whatever. I really do wish them well. Especially your children who have been put into a very difficult context.

  106. abujubair

    All i presented to you was qur’aan and sunnah, i portrayed and displayed authentic texts from what you say that you believe in, and if you or your family goes against Allah and his Messenger tell them fear Allah.

    The hadeeth about the rib is from the mouth of Allah’s messenger, and women do have a crooked sense of thinking at times especially when emotional, and women have a vicious mouth and curse their husbands as the hadeeth says.

    America is not cozy this is the most violent democracy in the world, and the law enforcement officials will attest to this. I studied their journals and see that these people make up things as they go along to the exclusion of their own corrupted religion.

    This is the same country that has killed more Muslims that any other non-Muslims country. This is the same country that holds the same ideology the French held in their colonization of Algeria(200 years), the West that has propped puppet rulers to serve their(the west’s’) purposes and interests.

    These people Islaam and seek out people like you(and your likes) to help them destroy islaam from within, they pimp the weaker ones(women and children) to rebel against the same leaders they need in power to run their scams. Look at Egypt, and Mubarak. They propped up Saddaam against Iran and then killed Saddaam. You want this garbage over here, and all you are worried about is women driving?? What about them Jews who stole the land of the Palestinians why dont you argue that, or how the Shi’ite worship the creation(shrines), or how democracy, and secularism is the mother of all filth, argue these issues. Or argue how you are a miserable sinner before Allah and how you are not sure if your last prayer is was even accepted.

    And yes men are to be patient with women also in general, and especially when we know that her emotions rob her of her rational thoughts.

    • Sandy

      You are to be patient with women because THEIR emotions rob THEM of rational thoughts? Oh my. Only if they’ve been brought up that way.

      This post was about Saudi Women driving. That is why I am not discussing those other issues BTW.

      You did not present Quran and Sunnah. You presented mostly opinions of “scholars” followed by “hadeeth” some of which might qualify as “sunnah” and last was Quran.

  107. abujubair

    The problem is that the Middle-East is not following qur’aan and sunnah as it was practice by the sahabah, so Allah is allowing the Muslims to be subdued by our enemies. And there is only one form of islaam that is acceptable to Allah, and that is the Islaam that the Messenger taught his companions(the salaf). There were no shi’a, no sufis, no ikhwaanis, no ahmadiyyah, no ash’ariyyah, no tableeghis, and so on. The manhaj and aqeedah were/are one. Islaam is not expansive, there is only one path. As we recite in surah Fatihah when we ask Allah to guide us to the straight path, not path.
    Differing causes enmity as what happened to the jews and christians Allah says,”Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture(jews and christians) did not differ except after knowledge had come to them – out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account.(3:19)

    So you saying that there are different versions(sects) you are correct in that statement, but is it pleasing to Allah. This is what you are doing, knowledge is being presented to you and you are turning from it, and we are differing. And this causes enmity. So many versions is wrong, all wrong.

  108. abujubair

    Allah has allowed polygyny in All of his revealed books and it is not tied to men lost during wars, Allah says, ““And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:3
    He starts off with saying marry two. And war is not a reason given in the verse before or after it, or in the various tafseer, and it is right given to men and we do not need the woman permission, and we can forsake that right in a marriage contract. And polygyny brings families together, not apart. Although i have witnessed both, but purpose is to bring the Muslims together. And polygyny in not for anyone, nor obligatory.

    You see some of the sisters here in the states actually partaking in the selection process, helping out, families working together, co-wives out shopping together, and the we also see co-wives bickering and fighting even pulling out guns. But they cannot be forced into it, and can ask for divorce(talaq).

  109. Reader

    Something is wrong with this blog. The writer has not been responding or writing for a long time. In the mean time, another ridiculous guy has virtually hi-jacked the blog.
    What’s going on here ??? Eman, please keep your blog clean !!

  110. abujubair

    Nothing is wrong with this blog except the fact that the majority of the talk on here concerns islaam, but no one refers this driving issue back to Allah and his messenger. When the ignorant peoples speak about islaam they allow our enemies to establish their nonsense. Look at the foolishness bin laden did, it allowed the west to invade not one, but two Muslim countries with the intent to spread democracy, and secularism. So women driving will not help islaam defend against our enemies, what help us against out enemies is knowledge, belief, action of islaam, and unity upon qur’aan and (authentic sunnah) upon the understanding of companions is necessary.
    The sad thing is that no one on this blog brings any solid supporting evidence that shows the, “need” , again the “need” for women to drive, not the desire. This a western plot, when the west want to excite a country there always start and pinpoint the women and children always. Check your history books. Because the well endowed, religious men, and women stand firm. However the youth, and the women who are irreligious,undecided, full of energy and lack wisdom fall prey.

  111. abujubair

    As we see today September 25th, 2011 the king of Saudia Arabia granted women the right to vote. It is beautiful that he did not bow to western pressure, or secularist ideas, But rather he returned to the Qur’aan and Sunnah for the(true) Islaamic stance regarding this issue. He approached the most senior of scholars and he sought approval. This is how it is to be done with all issues, even the issue of women driving. As Allah says in surah 4:59, ” O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority(rulers) among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.”

    and from the sunnah~, “Abu al-Darda’ (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) said,
    “Scholars are the inheritors of the prophets.” [Related byTirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasa’i, Ibn Maja, Ahmad, Ibn Hibban, and others] Ibn al-Mulaqqin, Zayla`i, Ibn Hajar, and others seemed it sound (hasan) or rigorously authentic (sahih)]
    May Allah reward King Abdullah for following the correct manhaj(by seeking scholarly advice, not popular opinion) in time of uncertainty. Ameen.

  112. Sandy

    Too bad Islamic scholars lag so far behind the west when it comes to understanding human rights. Another reason I doubt their abilities. Seems they should be leading in this arena- not following.

  113. abujubair

    Sandy, you and your likes are the reason the Muslim community is lagging behind because there is no unity amongst us. But understand that unity in islaam is just for the sake of unity itself. What do we unite upon? The reason why the messenger and his companions were victorious over the kuffar was because they united upon tawheed and obedience to the messenger. Allah messenger said, ” “My Ummah Will Never Unite Upon Falsehood”. You just praised those(west) who Allah did not praise at all, you praised their so called human rights, they give homosexuals rights to marry Allah did not (are you muslim). Thats the problem with the muslims we look at success in the wrong way, you praise the kuffar over the west, you are crazy, and astray.
    These people who you are praising have abandoned what you claim to believe in, are you Muslims. With each entry you are sounding further, and further away from islaam. How dare you recite (if you even pray) surah al-fatihah 17 times daily and dont know that we ask allah to guide us to his straight path, not the path of those who went astray, or earned his anger. When Allah messenger was asked who went astray and earned allah’s anger he said the jews, and christians. And you come along and defend and praise those whom allah did praise, who are blameworthy. You are ignorant and foolish, and a person of desires. And who is the a better provider for human rights that the creator. I bet you find nothing wrong with same sex marriage, alcohol drinking, fornication, magic, shirk, unnecessary abortions, men and women freely mixing, women walking the streets with shorts that look like panties(like here in america) etc, because these are what the kuffar call human rights.!!!
    You might as well do what the rest of the religiously dysfunctional Arabs do; move to america.

  114. Sandy

    WOW. I guess I really hit a nerve with observation that the scholars are lagging behind the west in terms of rights for women- to get such an emotionally hysterical response. You actually know very little about me and yet you feel quite comfortable describing my beliefs in detail and then passing judgement on them. I do wonder at your feeling comfortable saying these things to another person- and passing such judgements which, thankfully mean absolutely nothing as judgement is only up to Allah.

    Not only me but you pass sweeping judgements on the west while you live your comfy life there- and pass judgement on Arabs who have moved to America. BTW many of the Arabs I’ve met who’ve moved to America were being persecuted in their own countries. And also- not all of them are Muslim. Many Arabs belong to other faiths. Furthermore, I would also like to point out that “the west” is not a religion. Merely a region. And that Islam is neither of the east or the west- but equally for all

    If I am not in unity with you – you are also not in unity with me– and that the Ummah is certainly not in agreement with at least many of your views either.

  115. abujubair

    Judgments upon the west, secularism, and democracy is kufr without a doubt, theses ideologies contradict all messages revealed by the creator. That is why the west has separated church and state. While islaam is a deen(total way of life).
    As for the “rightly guided scholars” who judge, follow, and strive to implement qur’aan and sunnah as a muslim we have love our scholars as the scholars are the inheritors of the prophets, Prophet Muhammad (may the praise and peace of Allaah be upon him) said ; “ …and certainly the scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets and the Prophets did not leave wealth as an inheritance, they only left behind knowledge, so whoever takes from it, has taken an abundant portion.”
    So the scholars who are rightly guided have a lofty position given to them by Allah and his Messenger.
    And democracy and secularism is a religion the the west has adopted in place of the “original” teaching of the messiah Jesus the son of Mary. We say religion because they use their intellects as their guides to the exclusion of what Allah has revealed to them, and they changed their scriptures and adopted, “thought”. Look at what Allah says about those who adopt opinion over revelation, “Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire? Then would you be responsible for him? and also “Or do you think that most of them hear or reason? They are not except like livestock. Rather, they are [even] more astray in [their] way..”(25:43-44)

    As far the unity Allah said hold on to the rope of Allah, “not ropes”, we ask Allah to guide us to the straight path, “not paths”. And the messenger clearly told us that the ummah will divide, it is confirmed that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “The Jews split into seventy-one sects; one will be in Paradise (i.e., those who followed Moses) and seventy will be in the Fire. The Christians split into seventy-two sects; seventy-one will be in the Fire and one will be in Paradise (i.e., those who followed Jesus). And by the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, this Ummah (nation) of mine will split into seventy-three sects; one will be in Paradise and seventy-two will be in the Fire. It was asked, “Who are they, O Messenger of Allah?” He (peace be upon him) said, “Al-Jamaýah (i.e., the group which adheres steadfastly to the way of the Prophet, peace be upon him, and his Companions).” And in another narration: “(Those who follow) what I and my Companions are following.”
    Prophet (salallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: “A group of my Ummah shall remain steadfast, on the truth, victorious, unharmed by those who oppose them, and do not support them, until the death or until the Day of Resurrection.”Al-Bukhari nos. 71, 3641 and Muslim no. 1920.

  116. abujubair

    We dont expect the majority to be in conformity because Allah and his messenger have stated that the majority of the people are kuffar, or Muslims upon misguidance. Not me Allah and his messenger.

    I ask you an important question: Are Jews and Christians from amongst those who worship Allah.???

  117. abujubair

    And the scholars are not behind, it is the Arabs who are confused between the western styled temptations, and their deen. And this evident because we observe them when come here and the majority are not religious, and are shocked that we American practice islaam in such a free, open, trash bin that we do, we have actually heard them say this.
    And when the scholars of the sunnah come here to lecture us, when they see their own brothers (Arab muslims) they have told them to go home. The Arab muslims lands may not be perfect but even with their mistakes they are still better then the lands of the kuffar any day
    Allah says in 15:88″.Do not extend your eyes toward that by which We have given enjoyment to [certain] categories of the disbelievers, and do not grieve over them. And lower your wing to the believers>”

    Thats the problem you all are deluded by what Allah has given those who disbelieve to the point you think, perceive that they have degrees over us.

  118. Sandy

    I do not presume to judge Jews and Christians, though I disagree with some of their doctrine and believe they are in error. I do know that the prophet had good relationships and treated well people from both groups- including marriages and letting the Christians from Najran pray in the Masjid, and seeking refuge with the Christians in Ethiopia. Both of these groups of Christians (also the Copts of Egypt) worshipped Jesus as god and believed in the trinity, which is clearly counter to the Muslim view of Allah- but I simply try to follow the Sunnah of how the Prophet treated them. Beyond that only Allah knows.

    You are wandering far from the topic of women driving. You seem more interested in proving me deficient in some way and have been mostly rude about it. This answer was primarily for anyone else who may be reading. Believe what you like- judge me as you will- it means nothing. I have more important things to do as you meander around a bunch of topics with frequent angry name-calling outbursts.

  119. abujubair

    Im not wondering away from women driving. Driving is a minuscule compared to your reviling Abu Hurairah, and raising the status of those who Allah debased. I just notice that you post no authentic proof for anything you say. Im testing your belief and methodology.

    And you must declare jews and christians(all non-muslims) to be kuffar, you must judge them to be kuffar. A Muslim cannot claim islaam, without rejecting disbelief and then affirming belief.(negation and affirmation), and when you reject disbelief you automatically reject, announce, and judge non-muslims as kuffar. No way around this issue, at all.

    Dont think that I dont like you, you say that you are Muslim so I love you for Allah’s sake, I just need you to stay with qur’aan and sunnah wholeheartedly, and be careful of desires, we all have them. I refute your thinking to educate you, not make you feel lowly. Do not want to hurt your feelings.

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  122. abujubair

    How can you call me extreme when I bring my evidences from qur’aan and sunnah, as source that you say you believe in, and that you follow. You people want the women to drive but have “not” brought forth any(authentic) Islaamic proof to support your claim, or the need(a real need) .And Saudi is governed by Islaam.!! You just mention human rights. Allah and his Messenger have given humans their rights, bottom line.
    You see I live in America and I witness the epitome of being free, and i used to be be non-Muslim, just living life as I seemed fit, without true purpose. Islaam give mankind their purpose as Allah says,”And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.” (51:56) Thats the purpose worship.

    If you could only see how here in America the women are dressed but undressed always, irreligious, open lesbianism is on the rise, women are allowed casual sex abortions with no questions asked, fornication and children born out of wedlock is rampant, women marrying women, women are the number one victims of crime here in America by the hands of men. We have the largest population of prisoners in the world; 2.3 million(New York Times, 2008) prisoners in jails throughout America, and the female prison population is steadily on the rise. Unlimited freedom is a shame.

    We religious Muslims who live here, born here in the west used to be like these people(here in America, disbelievers, misguided) and now we see the difference since Allah guided us to Islaam. The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claims, so you all want women to drive, where in the qur’aan, sunnah, or understanding of the companions do we find this, im asking you??
    Because all King Abdullah is gonna do, is bound to do, must do, is refer this driving issue to the senior scholars who in turn will turn to Allah and his Messenger(islaam), and then weigh benefit over harm, and the true need of this issue. So where is your valid proof, from Islaam.??????

    • Yes, you are extreme. You think that just because you quote from the Koran or Sunnah that you are NOT extreme? Let’s take a poll. To All those who have read all the posts here from AbuJubair – Extremist or not?

  123. abujubair

    Men are the “guardians” of women, bottom line. In Christianity, Judaism, and Islaam. There is no where in the world where two people, two animals have the same status and share the same authority at the same time. One president, One King, One Lord and Creator, One manager over the people he manages during the shift he’s working, then another manager comes for the next shift to take his place.
    As for your claim of guardians who are rogue, well if this is true it’s wrong. But living in a muslim majority country, it would be clear. and obvious that your guardians are your fathers, brothers, sons, and uncles. If you own family mistreats the muslim women like this, well thats baaaad. But it has nothing to do with Islaam at all, its the people. You must free islaam from the treachery and oppression of the people.
    And if your family treats you like this, that a family issue, has nothing to do with driving, the rulers, or islaam.

  124. abujubair

    Wallace; you language sounds like the a talk of the feminist-lesbians, that lie to the women and rob them of their caring nature, causing them to mis-trust men. It does not sound like the belief and statements of Muslim woman who is satisfied with Allah as her Lord, and Muhammad as her messenger.

  125. Cat

    People stop talking to abujubair. There is a saying that you can’t argue with stupid people, they will beat you up with experience and drag you down to their level.

    He is an extremist.

    • Sandy

      You’re right. Either that or he’s an poser pretending to be Muslim to make Islam look bad. Either way- talk gets you nowhere. Stringing together texts out of context, some from questionable sources and “interpreting” them does not create validity in a position, nor does it exclude extremism or bad intentions.

      • abujubair

        Sandy, if you were referring to me as “posing”, bring the proof for your accusation. As far as the stringing together of proofs and evidences it’s call manhaj(methodology) and you cannot just read the qur’aan and interpret it as we read it. I am salafi, and the salaf are the first three generations. I implement islaam (qur’aan and sunnah) according to the understanding of the sahabah. I already posted the proof where Allah announced his pleasure with their understanding. I dont interpret anything,it already been done by the salaf.
        I also told you earlier that I am salafi, and I cant be salafi without being Muslim first. Talk will never get you anywhere when speaking about any topic without proof, why do you think people hire lawyers. So if it wont get us anywhere in a court of law(secular) how much more than Allah’s deen of Islaam. You have to provide proof that im wrong if not your accusations add up to slander which is a major sin in Islaam to accuse someone of something that they dont posses. Like how some people went and slandered ‘Aisha (Muhammad wife) and Allah revealed that they were liars, and how the shi’a still slander her(calling her a whore) after Allah cleared he of any wrong doing.
        So if you cannot support your claim that im wrong, you “all” slandering me, Wallahi.!!!!

  126. abujubair

    Susie, are you even Muslim.? Because I brought clear cut proof from qur’aan and sunnah that any (learned) Muslim would agree with. If you are Muslim, you and your husband need to go sit in the classes of the scholars and learn the religion from the religion. Understand that extremism can occur in excess or neglect, falling short, or going to far.
    Extremism also occurs when people bring things into Islaam that is not from it; innovations.
    So I have not brought anything(from qur’aan and sunnah) that is extreme, and if I did show me so can correct myself, and make repentance. You made the claim bring your proof(s).???!!!
    An excellent proof of extremism is when the proof is presented to someone who claims Islaam, they seek other that the Islaam. They go to the extreme of hypocrisy, I mean when you see stop sign and it says stop, you stop. If you dont and the police pull you over are you gonna go to left(extreme) and say, “the stop sign is blue not red so I did not stop?”
    Well if we are Muslim stop where the messenger stopped, stop where the “female”, and male companions of Allah’s messenger stopped. If it was good enough for them then who are we, the companions(female and male) witnessed revelation, we are 1433 years from revelation, so again who are when compared to them. They stopped at the text, so why cant we. The truth is accepted by whoever carries it as long as it coincides with qur’aan and sunnah. The sign is blue but it says stop, so stop.

    • @ abujubair – I did not say that you are extreme because of your quoting from Koran or sunnah. I feel you are extreme because of the length of your responses (which no one wants to read because they are TOO long), because of the sheer number of your excessive comments (more than 50), and because of your attitude about religion in general. It is as if you don’t have a mind of your own and cannot think on your own without religion getting in the way. You are not convincing anyone of anything here. You are like an annoying gnat buzzing around my head or a pesky dog that has latched onto my pant leg. You are not exhibiting normal behavior here and therefore in my opinion you are extreme and fanatical.

      • Sandy

        He also doesn’t know the meaning of the word “proof”.

      • abujubair

        My posts are long because of the necessity of a detailed refutation in regards to the doubts that are being posted. Susie what I am doing is a type jihad, which is struggling against the falsehoods that is present here on this blog. This is why so much mis-information is out there now about islaam because very few Muslims defend the religion, properly. A minority of us sometimes resort to terrorism and bloodshed which is not permissible at all.
        So i choose the path of dialogue, but either way Allah told us that the jews, christians, and Muslims who follow their desires will never be pleased with us Muslims. You all will not like us either way until we abandon our faith and be hypocrites following man made intuition, and law, and hopes. I will defend this deen(way of life) till i die. And it is not up to me to guide the misguided, Allah guides through various means even humans, and he says that the majority of mankind will not believe. If someone offended, or spoke ill of something/one dear to you, and they did it one-hundred times over you will defend also, so dont act like you dont now.

  127. abujubair

    The problem with this blog is that it is difficult to find out who is Muslim, Shi’ite, Sunni, hypocrite(fake Muslim) kaafir, atheist etc. Everyone can hide themselves behind themselves. Where are the religious Sunni Muslims(men and women) who appreciate qur’aan and sunnah. Who appreciate the companions. I would love religious dialogue to reach an understanding that Allah is pleased with, no dialogue based off of desires and whims, and fancies of emotionally driven individuals.
    This is in line with what Allah said about his messenger, ” Your companion (Muhammad SAW) has neither gone astray nor has erred. Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. It is only an Inspiration that is inspired. So did (Allah) convey the Inspiration to His slave [Muhammad SAW through Jibrael (Gabriel) ].” (surah:2-10)

  128. brad c.

    It never was a matter of religion or even culture. It was about looking at your sister and your mother and your daughter and realizing that they are human beings and worthy of respect and love. They are not your enemies. They are your strongest allies. I would rather have an ally who is a friend.

  129. abujubair

    The women are not slaves in their houses, they can go out for necessities, and family visits.They have access to transportation public and private, however they are not allowed to drive in public. If the scholars can deduce a proof from Islaam where the women “were” allowed to drive or travel alone, along with the need and benefit of women driving alone without a close relative I hope the country will implement it.
    In islaam the benefit takes precedence over the harm, and from what i see here in America (the bastion of sin and evil) women driving is a danger for them. As most women underestimate men, and freedom. And men know men better that women. And Allah knows his creation and what is best for them, better then us.

  130. abujubair

    A brad your are right about family, and Islaam guarantees family cohesion, it is the Muslims who fall short of their religion. I look at secularism, and democracy and this divides the people even families. Democracy, and secularism does not unite the people at all it divides them because everyone has different opinions and there will never be unity.
    You would think that they are united(democrats, secularists) but their hearts are scattered.The goal of Islaam is to unite the hearts, when the heart are united upon Islaam the bodies will automatically unite.

  131. charlotte wallace

    I’m confused on how you think I am expressing lesbian attitude and hating men. I am a happily married woman of 40 years to the same man. I see him as the head of our household who answers to God, because if he loves God more than me, then our relationship is endorsed of God or we are nothing. My belief is that women, who are nurtures, must look out for each other because in my opinion that’s not happening in many cultures.

    • abujubair

      O.K. Mrs. Wallace If I offended you I apologize. I dont know if you are Muslim or not; but anyway. If you want unite the “Muslim women” then we unite ourselves around qur’aan and sunnah, only. Not opinions and desires, or what is betrayed in other countries. And you are right that any culture, even here in America the men(some) just act as if you all are nothing, and I dont believe that, at all. I love women, and love the Muslim women even more. But one thing I notice Mrs. Wallace is that alot of the Muslim women don’t even bother to learn their own religion, which in turn can be used against them. The Muslim women must learn the rights that Allah and his Messenger gave them. If not they will consistently fall prey to evil man who has hidden agendas.
      And the thing with most Arab Muslims(male and female) they are ignorant of islaam because they inherited it from their family and dont take time out to do a detailed study. Just like most Christian who inherited Christianity from their parents dont know to much of anything about Christianity.

  132. Cat

    I am not a fan of any religion. They all have their dark sides and we as humans in this day and age should see it for what it is. I fear extreme Christians as well as Jews. A women is an intelligent, wonderful, independent, warm, strong, human being capable of thinking and doing for herself. She is no less than a man and no more. She deserves the same respect and dignity as a man. She deserves the same rights and voice as a man. Women teach your boys well and teach them that women are strong, independent and amazing. Women and girls deserve no less that men or boys. Empower women through education, exercise and self-defense. Teach them that they are capable, viable, intelligent and wonderous. The body is theirs and they have the right over it.

    Remember one of the greatest powers a woman has is that she is the hand that rocks the craddle and she has the power to shape a mind. Shape the mind of the child to respect mankind(men and women), to seek the wonderment of life, and to enjoying learning all aspects of what life has to offer in a constructive way.

    Teach your children that men and women are more than their sexual parts that we are intelligent, thinking, and caring beings. We are capable of great inventions, great thoughts, and great actions.

    For those who enjoy freedom of thought, religion, and expression. Teach them that freedom is not free. That it must be guarded and fought for. Teach them that there may be a day that you must decide whether they will fight and die to stay free or live and die as a slave.

    Brad C. great comment. I feel the same way.

    Here is a different view of what Mohammad has done for women.

  133. abujubair

    Freedom has lead to all sorts of evil that is abhorred by the Creator the sensible, and all divine scriptures. Freedom is understood to mean freedom from religion. I used to be non-Muslim. Freedom is freedom from religion and choosing whether to believe or disbelieve, to have anal sex, or not, men to marry men, women to marry women,the legality of usury(even though the bible prohibits this) etc…I have experienced both sides and democracy and liberalism, and secularism is wrong and a religion, a way of life in itself that is parraell to divine scriptures.
    To fight for Allah’s deen way more praiseworthy than fighting for the freedom to commit sin. You must understand that in democracy, secularism, you people have made everything permissible that the creator made impermissible, this is playing God. Can i come into your house and corrupt your children, wife, etc with ideas that circumvent you.

  134. abujubair

    A Sandy, obviously i know about proof cause i asked you to send yours and you haven’t as of yet, all you can do is slander Abu Hurairah, you need to fear Allah!!!. You just rambling off. And that is why the Muslims women get ripped of, they dont know their religion, they dont know their religious rights. This even applies to Muslim women here in America. How you believe in something, and be a part of it but know very little about it. And at the same time posses PhD.’s Masters, Bachelors in worldly knowledge.??
    Go to court and file a claim, and when the court date comes dont bring any concrete, authentic, proof to support your claim and watch your petition get thrown out, with prejudice.

    • Sandy

      YOU are the one supporting limits on NORMAL movements. Normal movement has ALWAYS been allowed for human beings in the ENTIRE Islamic world. You are proposing some freakish departure from that. The burden of proof is on you. And you haven’t supplied any.

      You’ve provided some evidence- much of it weak or out of context and you don’t know how to even understand what you’re saying. You are cut and pasting the scripts that the Wahabi/Salafi sects have constructed based on limited sources that support their own desires to oppress women and be in control of others. There is so much more information out there. I suggest you go educate yourself. And read what Aisha had to say about Abu Hurairah.

  135. Cat

    Sandy, you cannot argue with a crazy extremist. It is frustrating and futile. Give it up and ignore it. The only way to deal with extremist is to stop giving them their 15 mnutes of fame. Once people stop listening to it and allow it no authority only then will it go away.

    Extremism will go the same way as the Dinosaur to extinction.

    • Sandy

      You are right of course! Again. I’ll try stopping. Again. Because it goes exactly nowhere.

    • Sandy

      I thought I was replying to someone else. That’s why I said again.

      But I have to add- I don’t think extremism with become extinct any time soon in ANY faith. I hear ugly rants from Jews, Christians, Muslims and even Athiest/Agnostic. Tolerance can be in short supply for everyone. Even possibly which you refer to above and is banned where I live though I’ve read about it and it doesn’t sound very tolerant- though those that are anti-Islam seem to like it.

      • Cat

        You are correct that extremism will take a long time to go away. Faithfreedom can be anti-islamic but I understand their premise. It is about exposing a dogma that unjustly imprisons women and men in body, mind and spirit. Particular the Wahabbi interpretation. It is to show the other side of the debate. This particular article makes one think about the history and has some counter arguments for extremist who want to imprison women in thought, motion, and being. Not all of it applies but it is definitely a different view. Islam like all religions has a history and a setting. The history and setting needs to be recognized. I know Christianity has many different sects. Many recognize their history and setting, others have not. I believe this to be the same for muslims.

  136. abujubair

    Sandy, yes there is so much information out there but as I told you earlier Abu Hurairah narrated most of the hadeeth, and you slandered him. So your slander of him (not saying he was perfect) negated for you the majority of hadeeth, and hadeeth is knowledge,religion, and wisdom.
    As for stinging together proofs what else am i to do play spin the bottle, just grab an verse from the qur’aan or a hadeeth and use my intellect. Allah clearly stated that he was pleased with manhaj of the salaf(first generation righteous men and women) so why aren’t you. Islaam is not about control, just submission to Allah’s will and abandonment of ours.
    I’m supposed to cut and paste, I cant make anything up like the jews and christians, and Susie would love for me to do. We have a manhaj to follow. If no manhaj is followed people would read the qur’aan be confused, look at the Mr.Spencer of he just reads hadeeth and qur’aan but he does not apply the fiqh of the companions(the companions were there while the qur’aan was being revealed, who would know better?) and he sounds stupid to the educated Muslim, and beautiful to the kuffar.

  137. abujubair

    Does it bother any of you seek this driving issue that the majority of crimes that are committed against women who drive, are from the hands of men. Because criminal always seek out the easiest, weakest targets?? Does this mean anything to you all that women will be subjected to harm, the same harm that we see here in the U.S.???

  138. abujubair

    Yeah Sandy just stop because as long as you talk garbage I will refute you or anyone else. I’m not against women driving, just if there is a real need, and no one else can do it, because the foundation of the women is her home. You all say to care about women sooooo much well why put them in harms way of the street, and the evils of men.
    Again I see it here in America women are “the main victims” of crimes perpetrated by men. And we have the biggest prison population in the world, over two million. We see the detriment of women wondering aimlessly.

  139. Frankly,Saudi society simply boggles the mind.I am rarely at a loss for words,but this blatant oppression of your own citizens…It’s like some collective mental illness!!Truly,truly sad.But take heart,Saudi women!You are not alone in your fight;the world stands with you!-God Bless!

  140. abujubair

    In response to an old post from Ms. SANDY…Muslim men are allowed to marry chaste(virgin/not fornicators) christian or jewish women(if you can find one because the made fornication permissible), but Allah has forbidden our Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men no matter how chase they are. If an attempt is made in either situation to marry against Allah’s mandate, the marriage attempt will result in fornication(not married)
    As for the kind treatment that Allah’s messenger gave to(some) Jews and Christians this is permissible when they don’t fight against us, or break their treaties. But be balance he fought Jews and Christians. You have two types of kuffar, the scholars mention. Those who are passive. and tolerant of Islaam and the Muslims, some of them will even accommodate us, no strings attached.
    But then you have the antagonistic, combative ones who attack our lands,our religion and fight us because we believe and they want us to be like them(secular). And they show this through ridicule of what is actually from Islaam(covering, marriage, etc..), not the mistakes of what Muslims do, they make no distinctions.
    So a balance has to observed, Muhammad was kind when the people were kind, and he fought and shed their blood when he felt threatened.

  141. abujubair

    I give all praise to Allah for King Abdullah’s (Saudi Arabia) allowing the women greater freedoms within the realm of “Qur’aan and Sunnah”, I also would like to thank King Abdullah for not bowing to outside pressures. The King consulted the “senior religious sunni/salafi scholars” and they gave him the green light. The King clearly stated that “any” change must be based upon Shari’ah.

  142. I haven’t all these comments but I am sorry to read for a simple act of driving to get groceries, pick up children that it is misconstrued.

    But I guess my opinion doesn’t count in the midst of Muslim readers here, that I am woman, I am Canadian….and I choose to bicycle daily to my full-time job instead of driving.

    • naafas

      Hey Jean how are ya.? If the Islaamic scholars can “within islaam”” authentic proof and necessity” for women to drive, Saudia may allow it. The reason why it is not allowed is because the benefit outweighs the harm. The harm you may not understand because western women are used to getting harassed in public(visually, sexually, verbally,, etc…) by men. Most women in the west are raped by men they know(the statistics show). This is about protection of the muslim women from the evils of men, not oppressing them. Islaam is open to secular thought, or democracy. The west divided church and state because of the apparent hypocrisy that is associated with democracy, and secularism. Islaam is a way of life; more than just a religion.
      Read more about us from “authentic sources” only, and do not learn islaam except from a qualified muslim.

      • IROC

        I am a women in the west and most women don’t get raped or harassed. I have lived in small to large cities and have never had a problem. Here is an interesting statistic as well, over 30 percent of women attacked, according to statistics, are attacked in their own home. By the way rape by the husband is counted in the stats, also brothers, uncles, fathers, and strangers. Interesting violence against women has been going down in the western world. However, no where in the middle east or african nations can you use their statistics as women can be killed for reporting such crimes so it runs rampant in these countries. Islam is a way of life for men to torture and imprision women by keeping them secluded, financially dependent, and intimidated. The west divided church and state because it knew religion was all about control, brutuality and manipulation. The only hypocrisy that exists is within religion. Saudi is known as the world’s biggest prision for women. It becomes a bigger laughing stock each time it issue rulings like women breastfeed men and they can work beside them. Of course, iman across the world who says that uncovered women across the world create earthquakes just make people shake their head on the stupidity of it. The abusers (sorry protectors) of women in Saudi keep them from leaving their house, keep them from living and thinking, force them to marry people against their will, etc. Saudi muslim men are seen as backwards, oppressive, whores. According to the hadith not even animals are free from being used by Muslim men. Then there is even the great big man whore house in the sky where men have a perpetual hard on all the time. Even there the best women can every hope for is their lousy husbands where they must still keep themselves secluded. People in the west have read the Quran and they look at new findings such as the oldest Quran found in Sana’a dated between 705-715 which shows that the Quran text was not stable. Then you have the hadith which states that much of the Quran was lost and they gathered what they could and placed it in a book form then BURNED the original copy. Interesting how a goat can eat a protected sura. One wonders if this wasn’t put in the Quran what else wasn’t or what was changed to suit the political agenda of the person putting it together. Apparently it is pretty easy to corrupt the Quran even a goat can do it. So you see, the cult that exists in Saudi Arabia is becoming more and more of a laughing stock. It is so well known that Saudi men run across to Behrain to escape on weekends because even they know it is a prision and a joke. Of course everyone in the west knowns all about Saudi men’s homosexual tendencies. Other interesting and sad aspects of the Quran is that Muhammad couldn’t keep from forgetting what he said so he replaced something better latter. Then Muhammad had that dog gone slip up were he blamed the Devil in the Quran. Then wasn’t there a hadith were for six months a Jew put him under black magic. Wow. One wonders how much of the religion was actually written by the Devil. The only reason you want authentic sources is to keep your and other muslim men’s big whorehouse call Saudi going to your liking. The authentic source is nothing but the enabler for JOHNS like yourself. What is interesting is that more and more of Islam is being looked at and questioned whether you like it or not. Even most converts leave within the first 3 years. The only way Islam stays in place is by keeping out information from the masses, indoctrination (aka: brainwashing) and keeping the death penalty for apostasy. The flow of information with the internet plus the interest from others place more and more scrunity on the
        Quran. More and more people know that the Bible and the Quran are nothing more than man-made delusions.

      • naafas

        You have confused yourself by looking the actions of the muslims -vs- islaam. You have muslims that are gay; yes. But no muslim country has made it “permissible”, a law contrary to the will of the creators. My dialogue with this site is to protect islaam, only. IROC, Most what you are saying is ignorance of islaam. And i did not say “most” women get raped, and one is too much.

      • naafas

        Alot of secularists, atheists, and fools often sat that religion is about control, its aims are to enslave people they assert. Well from my experience and perception, and studies; human beings will be a slave to something, this is an obligatory rule. You will either be a slave of the creator, or a slave to someone or something created, fallible. feeble, and mortal. So islaam is a way of life (not just a religion) that was revealed to free mankind from the worship/enslavement of himself/creation to the worship/enslavement of the perfect. the all-knowing, the all-wise, the all-living creator. At the end of the day every human being will be a slave to something. So choose wisely, and be a slave of the creator; a Muslim.

      • naafas

        And another thing, from reading your blog entry its evident that you watch to much biased against islaam/muslims t.v., and/or you read sources of dissent from rag-tag muslims who want to live free like you. So tell your rag-tag muslims to move to the west if they want what you have, and dont corrupt corrupt the birth place of islaam. Oh. but if they move west ward they cant wear hijaab(proper Islaamic) covering in in Europe.!!!!

  143. Monica

    Naafas wrote: “This is about protection of the muslim women from the evils of men, not oppressing them”.. Oh my!!! Welll.. the solution you propose (to cover women, to keep them at home, to restrict their freedom, to prohibit to drive, etc) doesn’t act in keeping with your ideas. If Evil lives in men, as you wrote.. so, keep men in your “golden cage”, not women!!!! Freedom for women, now!!!

    • naafas

      Monica, I assume you are not Muslim and if you are sound as if you belong to the so called “progressives”. At any rate this is a muslim country, governed by islaam; not secular, not democratic. I live in the west, and there was a time in my life where i was christian, having no since of direction(no divine guidance). Allah has guided us muslims to islaam to free us from “freedom” and the worship of “ourselves”, when i look around me and i look at freedom, secularism, and democracy, it’s all evil. It’s freedom from religious constraints’ like the founding fathers who stole the U.S. wanted. And it (freedom, secularism. and democracy) clearly contradicts islaam, Christianity, and Judaism. Yes man does have a” free will”(to a certain extent) but we cannot “make” laws that contradict what ” the creator willed” and still call ourselves christian or muslim? Men and women are not equal as you people assume.
      I live here in America where there is unlimited freedoms (especially for women), while “free” women are the victims of most crimes, an Americas incarceration rate for women is growing astronomically, and free men and women have made permissible what the creator made impermissible(homosexuality/lesbianism) etc. WESTERN SOCIETY INTENTIONALLY/CLEARLY CONTRADICTS ALL DIVINELY REVEALED SCRIPTURES, AND YOU PEOPLE LOVE IT, YOU LOVE YOUR DISBELIEF . So what you all are saying is the limited intellect of mankind is superior to the all-knowing creator of the heavens and earth? You are crazy.!!
      Men like women (normally), and the creator has adorned women with beauty that men naturally covet, so that beauty must be protected and covered, not easily accessibly. AS THE WESTERN WOMEN HAVE NO SHAME OR MODESTY AND YOU WONDER WHY THE MEN ARE THE WAY THEY ARE(CAUSE AND EFFECT) So yes the men have to learn self-control, but at the same time the causes (women) must be restricted (not in totality). Feminism and freedom(s) has bought the western women nothing, they are still miserable, and unsatisfied. Islaam guaranteed women their rights with the confines of islaam. These rights are from the creator, not the creation.

      • IROC

        You muslim men are the worst whores on earth. Mohammad said you could do your farm animal, pearly boys, slave girls, rent a woman (wife) and four wives. Oh. Don’t forget thighing 1 year olds and marrying pre-pubencent girls. The best place for a Muslim man is castration, buried, jailed or deprogrammed. This way you can protect women, children (boys and girls), infants, non-muslims, and farm animals. Apparently a muslim male will stick his penis in anything living or dead. Mahammad even allows having sex with the recently dead as well. Maybe you should read the hadith and the quran its all in there. I am amazed that saudi men don’t stick their animals in an abaya. Muslim men have no modesty, honor, dignity, control or anything else. They follow the teachings of a forgetful, pedophile, rapist, sexist, lying, warring, illiterate. The problem you have is most of the literate world knows it. Islam took the rights away from women. Even Aisha stated that the believing women suffer more than non-believing women. Khadijha was a successful business women who freely associated with men to do her job. Then she died and the money ran out, all of a sudden Mohammed needed a new way to finance himself. Apparently Khadijha was the one who knew how to conduct business and keep thing solvent. Apparently, Mohammed was somewhat resentful of this because he knew his deceased wife was better at finances than him and decided to dump on women as less intelligent. Even Aisha called him on his bad behavior when taking his adopted son’s wife on how Allah answers his needs so quickly. Sarcasam was dripping from this hadith. Amazing though she was able to lead a battle but Saudi women can’t drive a car. Saudi men are afraid women will out perform, out think, and out do them so they keep them imprisoned. If women were allowed to leave without men’s permission, Saudi would be almost devoid of women. You can go on all day long on western women but western women know saudi muslim men are afraid of confident, intelligent, and vivicious women. Western men are real men, confident men, powerful men, and they are not afraid of confident, powerful, intelligent women. Unlike the boys in Saudi.

  144. IROC

    Let me clarify Western non-muslim men are real, confident and powerful men.

    • naafas

      The west(men and women) seeks power and influence through wealth and status. The women appear strong because of the manifest beauty that makes the men succumb to them, like our feeble politicians, stars, and sports men. The is western secularist democracies are filthy. You people never make up your mind on anything constantly changing laws and making up things as you go along; no guidance. And the thing is that the west wants us muslims to be like you all. You want to empty out the houses of women so they can run the streets and throw the kids in daycare while she pursues her “dreams”. I thought democracy accepted diversity, how can the world be diverse if everyone is alike. Saudi women are not caged they get out and go out. And yes when “some” women get to much of their own they show their asses, and show disrespect to their husbands.
      It makes no sense to have someone who is permanently, physically weaker, and also driven by continuous fluxuating emotions be in charge over a man, or on par with men. Thats why the only way for the western women to get their power, and status is through money, sex, and beauty because the west worships capitalism. Capitalism is the religion of the west. As for you Islaamic thoughts that you are bringing, show proof our your sources then we can argue. The western woman is still an on sale sex-object, still a tool for men.

    • naafas

      We see in the west how the households are being destroyed because the women are out chasing the world. Islam has to safeguard our women from the destruction of what we see in you (the west). And yes you do have some deluded men and women in Saudi who take this issues lightly; the issue of how the west wants to eradicate Islam, we know this.But the majority of the men and women in Saudi maintain their obligations to islaam and each other. So keep biting your nails in rage.
      And its funny how the enemies of islaam always focuses on the weak ones; women,children, and the way wards. You all know that if you break the woman of a society, you have broken the society. The man and the woman each has a role to play in the perfection of a country, if each one plays their god given role the society runs smoothly when roles mix, the morals of the society fall as we see in the west.
      And all of what you said concerning islaam in your last post are lies. As for khadijah operating her business, a woman can do that, Muhammad resentful you are ignorant . As for his marriage to Aisha, this was the practice of various Semitic peoples during that time (customary) Semites are: a subfamily of Afroasiatic languages that includes Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopic, hebrew, and Phoenician.

  145. Holy mackeral! This is turning into one nasty, hateful blog. I’m a secular American and I lived in Saudi for 14 years. One of the men I most respected–a good friend–was a Saudi mutawa and warrant officer in the RSAF. He was a strong military man and a strong Muslim, but he respected Americans and American culture, and I respected him and his culture. He was an honorable man.
    Another good friend was a Saudi woman–of mature age–who was a successful businesswoman and Saudi feminist, educated in Cairo and the US to the doctoral level. Her hero was Nasser, but she always considered herself a Saudi and a good Muslim. She thought the restrictions of women in KSA were absurd and dead wrong from an Islamic standpoint. I happen to agree with her.
    I happen to admire the real, strong, ‘family values’ of Saudi and Arab culture. I think the west can learn a lot about them. I also believe that women are created equal to men, and discrimination should be against the law. It’s time for Saudi culture to wake up. The caliphate is an historical illusion; 90% of Arab conspiracy theories are an illusion. Look to Egypt, Tunisia, Syria. Look to Kemal Mustafa, almost 100 years ago. Where is Saudi’s Ataarab?
    As for the Saudi unemployment problem, simply create a reasonable minimum wage for every single wage earner, of whatever nationality, in the Kingdom! Make it high enough for a married Saudi to live and support his family reasonably. You’ll get rid of your millions of Pakistanis, Nepalis, Filippinos–and your young men and women will find jobs!

  146. naafas

    John if she was a good muslim she would not criticize what she believes in. Criticize the people yes, but how can fully believe in something and then criticize it. Not in islaam on democracy. And the Islaamic scholars the warn muslims who study secular knowledge to first be firmly grounded in their religion. If not they might be swayed, as secular knowledge puts itself, and the intellect above the divine guidance(the creator), and it contradicts religion. Not comparable, thats y the west separated church and state. In islaam the church is the state and vice-versa. If she is fighting to get the women their rights that her creator has given them through islaam then this honorable, if she fighting for the rights that contradict what us muslims believe in then she is misguided, and ignorant.

  147. Monica

    Are you all crazy????? It’s a foolish act to lump things together!!! I don’t think ALL muslim “are the worst whores on earth” (as Iroc wrote) as I don’t think ALL western men are the best. It’s childlike naivety to divide the world in two parts, one good and the other bad. In my opionion on our planet there are people who think with their own brain and there are people who don’t think and take their Holy Scripture letterally without ask theirselves if what the read is right or not (in all religion we can find people like that). This is the only biggest different. Obviously I think that people who take an antique book litterally are not so intelligent as they think. Examples I can do are
    innumerable.. Jehovah Witness let dead their children if they need a blood trasfusion ’cause in the Old Testament is written that our soul is in our blood and is forbitten to mix blood each other!!! Christian religion doesn’t allow the abortion in a raped little girl, either!! Muslims don’t want completely equality between women and men ’cause is not provided for in their Quran!!! So It doesn’t exist a right and good religion and a bad one! There are only people who use their brain and people who don’t do it. That’s all.

    • naafas

      Monica, the reason why islaam prohibits the mixing of men and women is sooo obvious, look at what CNN reported a couple of years back that most illicit affairs take place in the work place, look at what has happened to Bill Clinton, Howard Cain, Tiger Woods, Nicolas Sarkosy and the whole host of others in the western world, and you cannot just blame the men. This is called fornication, something forbidden by Islaam, Christianty, and Judaism, but the west (as usual) made it permissible. Anyway this is why we separate sexes in islaam this so obvious.
      And again i am speaking for islaam, no Islaam does not give women “complete” equality with men, neither does Christianity, or Judaism this is why most women are confused between their religion and secularism/democracy. Secularism has given women their hypocrisy they were searching for, because most all of what secularism represents parallels Islaam, Christianity, and Judaism. Men and women are equal in certain areas, and obligations, but each one excels in places where the other struggles/lacks. If everyone stays in their lane(and help each other) and obey the traffic laws(by not trying to overun each other) we have no accidents. This feminism and secularism is pushing men and women away from each all over the world.

  148. I just found this on The New York Times website:

    It’s an amusing visual story of how women, far beyond playing catch-up, have been pioneers alongside men (in A. Earhart’s case, ahead of men) in new technologies and new activities.
    I also note that Arab women are now piloting planes in Abu Dhabi and in the UAE. In Saudi, there is, or perhaps was, Captain Hanadi:

    Neither planes, trains, nor automobiles were ever mentioned in the Koran, or in the many books of the Bible. Both were written to address people, cultures, problems and spiritual needs that were contemporary and of-the-time. Both can still instruct and guide us today. But I also think that we, like these courageous ladies, should have the courage to take the control stick in our hands, press the rudder pedals into our feet, and embrace the challenges of modern life and the new century.

  149. Monica

    To Naafas: When you wrote “i am speaking for islaam, no Islaam does not give women “complete” equality with men, neither does Christianity, or Judaism this is why most women are confused between their religion and secularism/democracy” you show to belong to group of people in the world who prefer do not think with their own brain and take letterally the precepts of the religion, without ask theirselves if what they read is right or not. If you are glad to live with your ritired brain, good for you. But please don’t require all people do like you. Let people free to choose. And open your eyes!!! Don’t believe that we western people live a life full of “fornication”, as you said. You cite as western example Clinton, Cain, Woods, Sarkosy.. Oh man! You really believe that those people are like we, poor people??? Berlusconi lives like the middle italian class? ahahahahah.. you live on mars, Naafas!!! We poor people don’t have time to fornicate! We have time just to work (a lot), pay the bills, try to bring up our children in the best way we can, and hope to survive. Wake up Nafaas!!! Stop to believe all things someone tell you and start to think with your brain!!

    • abujubair

      Monica, people have chosen, and most of what theyhave chose goes aginst the commands of the creator. The mind is used to choose right from wrong, not to play creator and commander of the universe. Free will is not so free, and is not meant to make our intellects superior to Allhah, and the prohets and messengers. If you check the latest stats you will see that marriageis on the decline in the west, especially in the U.S., So these misguded souls have made just about everything permissable that the creator has made impermissable,forication, homosexuality, lebianism,same sex marriage, intoxicants, usury, even down to teching male/female children you choose what sex you want to be. This is secularism, this people exercising their minds, the west is bastion of sin and trangression. Don’t get me wrong we are all sinners, but western culture make alowable what their(our) creator has made prohibited.This is the arguement, playing God ???.!!!
      I am using my mind to see that man is regresssing to all new lows, the criteria is the qur’aan and sunnah in which the creation is judged, not intellects of the feeble. Allah is the all-knowing, all-wise,all-strong, amn is weak, and arrogant. The creator hknows what is best for his creation because he creates it.(duhh) Just like your car, computer etc has an owners manual in it, why don’t you use your mind and push aside the manufactures mandates for the livelyhood of your car, computer, etc…The manufacter of your car etc, says put this type of oil, gas, anti-freeze in your car why dont you(Monica) do the opposite. Do the opposite and see what you get. In islaam we use intellect all day, but not over Allah nad his messenger(s). Islaam teaches us our place, and we strive to stay in it.

  150. Monica

    To Abujubair: Forgive my sincerity but I think the biggest difference between you and me is just one: you trust in the ancient books, and trust in those book there’s the God’s word. I don’t. That’s all.
    I think all those books (Bibble, Quran, Torah, ect.) were written by people, people who are lived in the past, a far past, where there were medieval rules, not applicable in the present. You call it “secolarism”. I call it modernity. And, the Story, teachs all of us that nobody can stop modernity. But what’s the meaning of this word? Modernity is not just pc, cellular phones, fast cars, washing machines, etc. as you say. Modernity is a big, incredible, wanderful ideal: to build a new world free from social and gender disparities. We are still very fast from this, true. But we have started to move first steps: that’s why monarchical and dictatorial regimes are going to vanish and democracy are going to move forward in the whole world. Today people want to be free to choose and often people are ready to fight for freedom. In ancient books is written that woman must be “protect” by men? Is written women must stay a step down from men? I don’t care because I don’t trust this is the God’s word. Because in my heart I feel it’s wrong and God mad my heart able to to distinguish between good and evil. Your old ideas are evil. Do you want a proof? Easy: your ideas to put down women (to prevent them from driving it’s just a banal example!!) make most of them unhappy and wretched. A good action produce happiness. A bad action produce unhappiness. It’s a universal. very simple theorem. And now my dear islamic integralist (I’m taking the liberty to call you like that because I’ve just read what you wrote to Sandy), try to answer to this question: does God want good or evil behaviours (with good and avil results) by human race on the Earth?

    • abujubair

      As for the scriptures being written by men, well at one point the old and new testaments were untouched, but through time their religious men(scholars, Constantine,etc) adulterated the old/new testaments and they split into groups;Jews and Christians will attest to this fact, this is part of what lead me to islaam. No(sane) muslim will say that the qur ‘an has been changed, most of the stories in the qur’an took place before Muhammad and the qur’an shows where the jews and christians went wrong (no one can say the old/new testaments/qur’aan are exactly the same, the qur’an refutes their claims), and the muslims/mankind learns lesson from those us before so this why allah revealed stories from those who came before us.

      Monica, we are a morally and spiritually bankrupt generation we have not progressed(dont let science and tech fool you) the same crimes that were present in every generation since Adam is here now, if not worse!! We have regressed, this evident when you judge by a criteria; Allah’s will.

      As for social and gender disparities this is something naturally from the creator to realize that man and woman are different in all aspects; there are differences. Islam is not about equality because this entails giving to those who dont deserve it. Islam is about justice, giving everyone what the earn, entitled to. Democracy may be the majority, but truth is not weighed on majority.

      Women are not equal to men, bottom line this is something revealed by their creator, and perceived when you look at all the commercials aimed at women with products to balance their emotions and hormones. When you walk into a store you find more products for available for women that men. Men are simple, and rational, women are emotional and complex. Differences Monica, not equal.!! And again who know more about something but the one who made it.??

      Women are the physically weaker sex, men have the highest I.Q’S, most men are not swayed by emotions. If allah made you heart distinguish between good and evil how come you and your likes are changing the ways of the prophets and messengers those who more knowledgeably of Allah than you and I??

      Ideas old and evil, where is there a expiration stamp on the laws of the creator, who gives you all authority to change what is not yours, change what you did not create. I know you prob have car, do the opposite of what the manufacture says see what you get. You govern yourselves according to base desires not knowing what the future holds for us, you people make up laws and then change them thats not guidance, thats making up things as you go along.
      To answer your question: Allah orders, loves good, and forbids, hates evil. Allah allows evil at times because it leads to good, like a person repenting from sin he fell into. Allah sent the prophets and messengers with revelation teaching what he loves and hates, that which will help you or harm you. He gave man an intellect, insight to choose his path. But also said that creation and command belongs to him, he creates and commands his creation. Heaven and hell have been created for those with intellect (not as you think), those who submit themselves to will of their creator and die in that state will be in paradise. Those who do not put their intellects over Allah and his messenger.

      The devil was the first to use reason/intellect over obedience/submission,his goal was to honor himself, he refused to honor Adam due to pride thinking he was better than Adam and Allah cursed him forever. As for the majority being correct, Allah says that the majority of the creation is in the fire, and astray in Islaam numbers mean nothing to us. I know you hate this, and your freedom is freedom from religion nothing else, freedom to disobey, freedom to criticize all religious peoples. The human” must” be enslaved by something it our nature we’d(muslims) rather be slaves of allah that slaves of our own base desires.

      I guess you are an atheist, meaning that inwardly you are convinced but outwardly you show rage, to deny the creator is to deny your existence, and to expect an owners manual/instruction book in everything you buy, but at the same time dont believe that the creator sent books with his creation you an ingrate, and you benefit from what his rain produces but praise mankind??

      Or you are of the spiritual crew, who believe in God but dont follow any prescribed religion, this is the better of the two but still false.I cannot treat you anyway i want, talk to any way/how i want, we can’t drives the streets anyway we, there are rules everywhere we go, even jails, and a sin city like Las Vegas, but the creator of the heavens can be thought about, believed in, treated anyway. Monica you are wasting you intellect, and Allah has made it haraam(impermissible) to oppress ourselves, YOUR EYES ARE WIDE SHUT.

    • abujubair

      Isn’t there one creator nothing above him.
      Isn’t there one president of every country
      Isn’t there one president of company
      Isn’t there one steering wheel in a car
      Isn’t there one pilot and a co-pilot
      Didn’t the creator trust man over his wife, and household
      One mayor, One Governor
      One, One, One Monica. And they are not equal with those under them, notice how i said “under”, not side -by-side. Allah placed men as superintendats over women, billions, billions, billions of men and women have accepted this before you were even though of swimming in your father testicles(dead). Mary the mother of Jesus accepted it, are you more honorable, smarter than her. You at one time was nothing but a “drop” of fluid (sperm) mixed the womb of you mother, and know after you lord brought fort you stand forth as an opponent..??

      As for your social and gender disparities, you know have these gays and lesbians teaching their children that they can be what ever sex they want. So a boy is being taught that his penis can be for the rectum of another boy/man, and this has brought up the debate for boys to get HPV shots so they won’t get cancer in their ass, these people are starting to erase gender lines that are so clearly set by the creator, this due to a false reasoning, democracy, and secularism. The anus is nasty, and bacteria filled, thats why feces stink.

      The only similarities we have is that we are created by the same creator, breath the same air, live on the same planet. Other than that you are lost, and you govern yourself, and you dont know that you made the wrong decision until after it is made,but GUIDANCE FROM THE CREATOR SAVES US FROM THIS. And I’ve been commanded to believe in and follow what has been revealed to us. You choose to drive along a dark road, with the devil as your guide.

  151. Monica

    ahahahhahahahahahahahah.. you’re dangerous!!! I just said to you I don’t trust in those books.. Do you have any difficults to understand what people say to you? Have you ever tried to listen to yourself? Do you really trust in what you say? You talk like a book! I’ll never never never make me submit to your misogynic vision of the world. NEVER. Can you hear me??? NEVER. You’re not God. You are just arrogating to yourself the right to know what God wants. Who are you to do that? You’re just a little, minuscule man.Humanity has just beaten dangerous and nazi ideas like yours. You are not the firt one, and you’ll be not the last one. Don’t worry.
    A last thing: you wrote about IQ.. (sorry if I’m laughing). Men are not smarter than women, but they sure think they are, I mean some of them, fortunately not all of them!! Scientific studies show that men and women are fairly equal overall in terms of IQ. But women, it seems, underestimate their own candlepower (and that of women in general), while men overestimate theirs. Why women think they aren’t as smart as men? Simple! It’s about cultural factors! If I had a father like you, probabily I’d think about myself to be a stupid and inpt woman! My father is has an enlightened mind, instead and he has always been impartial with his children (me and my brother, a girl and a boy). Same education, same money, some studies.. when parents send inappropriate or misleading messages to their children about their abilities, they form persons like you. Men aren’t more clever or smarter. But since they think they are, they are more confident about their abilities. Simple and natural. Education and instruction are the only different between the two genders.
    Often when a girl can go to school like a boy, she gets better results.. she’s not more intelligent then a boy.. she’s just more tenacious. That’s because we, women, will never surrender to misogynic ideas like yours. NEVER! (I’ll never talk to you. Never again)

    • abujubair

      Sandy, in general men do have higher I.Q’S that women I would not lie to you, do your research, however we still do dumb things.
      Testosterone is what makes us men, and gives us chivalry, and makes some of us leaders something women don’t have. Women are weaker emotionally and physically(you know this), it’s o.k. to a woman. And you women are trying to equate yourselves with us but you cant, because we are different. Sandy if you are muslim what im sayn here does not contradict qur’aan and sunnah. Allah states in the qur’aan that the man is not like the woman

    • abujubair

      Monica you seem to be educated, i dunno. But doesn’t all secular education come from books written by men?? What books do you read, you had to read a book some where in your life. You criticize the muslims because we accept that the qur’aan and sunnah(books) are the speech of Allah, but you read books too. And arrogance is denial of the truth and looking down on others.

      Monica i dont expect for you to believe and follow Islaam unless Allah wills.
      Allah says in the qur’aan: “Shall we inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?,They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work.”18(103-104) Woowww!!!

      You people are spinning your wheels, and you and your ideaolgy of reasoning is ancient; trying to reason over divinely legislated commands, it goes back to shaytaan(the devil) when he was commanded to bow down to Adam, he used a “corrupt”, (free will, etc…) form of reasoning” placing his intellect and “feelings” over the command. He lost, remember you were just few drops of sperm, now you oppose.!!??

  152. @Monica,
    I just wanted you to know that not all Muslims believe that nonsense that has been spouted here. But unfortunately we have our share of ignorant Neandertal’s who seem to think they know something because they have learned the scripts of the Patriarchal/Tribal “scholars” who carefully select what to include or not.

    I would have laughed at the IQ remark but it is just so sad. Even more laughable to me is the “emotionalness” of women. Men, and their testosterone overloads have been leading people and their communities into needless war for as long as human history. So much for inherent stable, able, leadership. Good male leaders need to overcome that.

    • Monica

      Yes, Sandy, I agree with you. Absolutely. I know very well that not all muslims men are like this idiot.. fortunately! Our ideas will win, his will die.. It’s only a matter of time.

      • abujubair

        It does not matter who is smarter that the other, Allah is Al-Aleem (all knowing) and from his infinite knowledge he made men stronger than all women, and more rational thinkers than most women who more often swayed by emotions, and desires. One day your up, next you are down, you all hold grudges, and are more harsh to each other any man, petty to each other, and physically weaker. You all change your mind like you change your shoes, The complexities in the women are seen in the variety of mood altering chemicals that is being offered today through the various commercials that help you all through your moods, and phases. 3/5 commercials are geared to emotional stabilizing products/birth control/and better sex products for women
        It’s o.k. though because this is the woman’s natural disposition, Islaam explained this, and it is easily witnessed. So a creature that is designed weak needs support from someone who is not weak(men) in those same areas as she is. No strong woman wants a physically, emotionally, weak man, unless she fears his power, and she wants the control, but it’s natural for men to to be in charge,and you women allow this and need this. Even in those dysfunctional relationships Allah created us in this fashion, and you all in yours. It’s o.k. though Im not attacking or disparaging.

      • abujubair

        Even it the dysfunctional lesbian/homosexuality relationships, there must one who is dominant, even though these people clearly suffer from delusion of grandeur. Even these being who are lower than animals animals show the need for differences, and hierarchy.

    • abujubair

      Sandy, if you are muslim you must bring a proof from qur’aan and sunnah that clearly show that the islaam that was practiced 1433 years ago is not applicable in our times, because you are talking this “neanderthal” stuff.

      You ignorant muslims are the ones who open up the doors for these devils. Look at what Bin Laden did, his despised act allowed the kuffar to enter our lands a kill hundreds of thousand of muslims. I strongly advise you about speaking ignorantly about something you don’t know or cannot furnish proof for. And if you don’t think we have enemies, Allah says in 60(1-2):

      O you who have believed(Muslims), do not take My enemies and your enemies as allies, extending to them affection while they have disbelieved in what came to you of the truth, having driven out the Prophet and yourselves [only] because you believe in Allah , your Lord. If you have come out for jihad in My cause and seeking means to My approval, [take them not as friends]. You confide to them affection, but I am most knowing of what you have concealed and what you have declared. And whoever does it among you has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way.If they gain dominance over you, they would be to you as enemies and extend against you their hands and their tongues with evil, and they wish you would disbelieve.
      And in surah 5:(51) Allah says:
      O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

      The ones who do not fight us for our religion we are allowed to conduct business, treat kindly, and be cordial with, but we NEVER choose a non-muslim over a muslim, the worst of the muslims are better that the kuffar, and we can call them kuffar because Allah has called them that, we call the believers(muslims), so what is the opposite of believer, except disbeliever?? SANDY PLEASE YOUR DEEN, I TOLD YOU THIS BEFORE. SALAFIYYAH IS ISLAAM AND ISLAAM IS SALAFIYYAH, ALLAH SAID ONE PATH NOT MULTIPLE, ALLAH MESSENGER SAID THE UMMAH WILL DIVIDE INTO 73 GROUPS, ALL IN THE FIRE EXCEPT ONE, HE SAID WHOEVER FOLLOW WHAT MEN AND MY COMPANIONS ARE ON, NO ONE DENIES THAT THE SAHABAH (SALAF) ARE THE BEST GENERATION EXCEPT THE SHI’A, WHAT YOUR PROBLEM????

    • abujubair

      O.K. Sandy, since you tell this Monica that not all Muslims believe in this “spouted nonsense”, what is the “Islaamic” position regarding equality between men and women, what does islaam say about men being in caretakers/superintendents of the women (does not mean women are dumb). And remember bring your proof from qur’aan and sunnah, or one of the trustworthy scholars(past or present) who deduced their evidences from qur’aan and sunnah not whims and fancies???
      Our mother Aisha, Umm Salama, Khadeejah(Muhammad’s wives), and thousands of other female companions(salaf) accepted their status and Allah announced his pleasure with their ways, and beliefs in the qur’aan, whats the matter with you, how are you better than our forefather/foremothers.
      You are putting yourself before our mother; Aisha. Aisha used to be approached(from behind a screen/she was not seen) by her seniors of the sahabah (companions of the messenger) for detailed religious knowledge and you put yourself our this virtuous women.??? Bring your proofs!

      • This is the last time I reply to you. The Quran says that men have “a degree of advantage” over women. This is just a fact, not an endorsement, and if one looks around the world it often manifests itself in abuse or violence against women. Men are told not to do this. They are to make sure that women under their control can get their rights if they are being interfered in. For example, one thing my husband did was make sure that all his sisters and mother had driving lessons and got to learn to drive a car- because their oppressive country doesn’t allow it. His father made sure they were supported and no one interfered with them getting the education they wanted.

        As for putting myself above Aisha, and claiming I am ignorant, shame on you for lying about me and slandering me in order to try to make your depraved version of Islam look “correct”. Their were different rules for the wives of the prophet. “You are not like other women”- straight from the Quran if you’ve ever read it.

        Now perhaps you would like to get a dictionary and look up the word “equal”. It does not mean the “same”. No one is saying that men are the “same” as women. Only that they are equals. And yes, you are right that justice is important in Islam, but nothing you describe seems to give any to women- certainly in your version of things men get a lot more “justice” than the women.

      • abujubair

        What the sahabah (male/female) implemented is to also be implemented by the common day muslim women full hijaab and all Allah says in the qur’aan surah 9:100:
        And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to Al-Madinah) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al-Madinah who helped and gave aid to the Muhajirun) and also those who follow them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.

        Notice how he says,”and those who (also) follow them exactly in faith”, this is allah announcing his pleasure with their ways, look at surah an-nisaa:115

        And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers’ way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell – what an evil destination.
        In this verse is a threat for whoever opposes their(sahabah/believers ) ways, in all well known books of tafseer past/present the term “believers” refers to the male/female sahabah, as they were the only believers present when this verse was revealed. So Allah’s saying “your not like any other women”. their were some differences for them, but they are still the example(TO BE FOLLOWED/OBLIGATORY) for all women(as i showed you in above verses). THEY ARE OUR SALAF(FOREFATHERS/MOTHERS) And one thing they did not do was criticize anything from Allah and his messenger, at all.!!!

        As for you calling the land of tawheed oppressive; fear Allah. Saudia Arabia is the only land in the world where shirk is a crime. Adultery, fornication, gambling, mixing of sexes is not allowed except in the marketplace, and some hospitals, the country hosted 3 million brothers and sisters for hajj this year,provided hundreds of thousands of tents for the pilgrims, they opened up thousands masaajid in non-muslim countries, have donated billions of musaahif(qurans) all over the world in various languages, donated millions to our brothers and sisters in Palestine, alcohols is not allowed, rape, drug smuggling is punishable by death, the prescribed shariah punishments are carried out as ordered by Allah, the five daily prayer are enforced (as the messenger did), jumu’ah is obligatory on the men, magic is a crime, this is the birth place of islaam and the rulers are not perfect but they trying their best to protect that land from the kuffar/atheists who want it to look like the west.

        They propagate one understanding of islaam because thats all there is as stated in the verses above, they fought/fight terrorism, dont you ever side with those kuffar against your brothers and sisters, this is hypocrisy(not calling you one) Those rulers try their best and are up against the world trying to change us, and they use the woman as a pawn.
        Islaam does not sanction violence towards kuffar(as long as they dont fight us for our faith, or self defense), so what about the muslim woman who has a higher status than the kuffar men/women. No woman should be beat and punished at all, but dont go join some type of kaafir womens crusade that is also opposed to what you believe in. You know full well we have harsh punishments that are just for those who transgress the limits set by allah.

        And women(most, general) do have some or all those symptoms, Allah and his messenger narrated it, i perceive these normal shifts in behavior in my women folk(wives, daughters, mother, sisters), plus before i sent you that last message i double checked with various women, you women are complex and it takes alot of patience and understanding to deal with you all. I make mistakes cuz im human and sinner, but i wont intentionally tell lies on Allah’s creation(our women) muslim or kaafir.

  153. abujubair

    A Monica, Islaam is fastest growing religion on the earth(2.5 billion and growing while your likes hate it and try to stop it), and the majority of those coming into islaam are WOMEN, to humble themselves to THEIR CREATOR and THEIR HUSBANDS, to be caring wives and mothers who realize that they have a lofty purpose in serving their creator while living a fruitful life. And these women are highly-educated, and some are generally educated.

    Im not gonna argue with you on the I.Q. issue because Allah created everyone(men and women) with different intellectual capacities, but he still choose men to superintend the women. If we both work together and recognize our differences, and support each other where the other is weak the society will be beautiful. Monica we are different inside and out, not equal. THERE IS NO EQUALITY IN ALLAH’S CREATION AT ALL..!!

    This word – equality – which many thinkers in both the east and the west advocate in various fields of life is a word which is based on deviation and a lack of understanding, especially when the speaker attributes this idea of equality to the Qur’aan and to Islam.

    One of the things that people misunderstand is when they say that “Islam is the religion of equality”. What they should say is that Islam is the religion of justice.

    Shaikh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    “Here we should note that there are some people who speak of equality instead of justice, and this is a mistake. We should not say equality, because equality implies no differentiation between the two. Because of this unjust call for equality, they started to ask, what is the difference between male and female?’ So they made males and females the same, and then the communists said, ‘What difference is there between ruler and subject? No one has any authority over anyone else, not even fathers and sons; the father has no authority over his son,’ and so on.

    But if we say justice, which means giving each one that to which he or she is entitled, this misunderstanding no longer applies, and the word used is correct. Hence it does not say in the Qur’aan that Allaah enjoins equality, rather it says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Verily, Allaah enjoins Al‑‘Adl (i.e. justice)”

    [al-Nahl 16:90]

    “and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:58]

    Those who say that Islam is the religion of equality are lying against Islam. Rather Islam is the religion of justice which means treating equally those who are equal and differentiating between those who are different.

    No one who knows the religion of Islam would say that it is the religion of equality. Rather what shows you that this principle is false is the fact that most of what is mentioned in the Qur’aan denies equality, as in the following verses:

    ‘Say: Are those who know equal to those who know not?”

    [al-Zumar 39:9]

    ‘Say: Is the blind equal to the one who sees? Or darkness equal to light?’

    [al-Ra’d 13:16]

    ‘Not equal among you are those who spent and fought before the conquering (of Makkah, with those among you who did so later’

    [al-Hadeed 57:10]

    ‘Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allaah with their wealth and their live’

    [al-Nisa’ 4:95]

    Not one single letter in the Qur’aan enjoins equality, rather it enjoins justice. You will also find that the word justice is acceptable to people, for I feel that if I am better than this man in terms of knowledge, or wealth, or piety, or in doing good, I would not like for him to be equal to me.

    Every man knows that he find it unacceptable if we say that the male is equal to the female.

    This equality this that you people purpose has lead you all to equate yourselves with creator. This is believed because you change his laws and place you limited intellects of the all-knowing, all-wise creator of the heavens and earth. Monica you and your likes(even if they claim are muslim) are misguided, having no light to find your way

  154. @Monica, you were absolutely right about what you said regarding IQ’s. Mens’ and womens’ average out the same. But PERCEIVED IQ’s are higher in men- as they think they’re smarter even when they are not. Sometimes it’s refered to as the “humility factor”. I find that particularly noteworthy as Islam puts such a high value on modesty and humility- and in this the women certainly come out ahead overall.

  155. “…his infinite knowledge he made men stronger than all women, and more rational thinkers than most women who more often swayed by emotions, and desires. One day your up, next you are down, you all hold grudges, and are more harsh to each other any man, petty to each other, and physically weaker. You all change your mind like you change your shoes, …”

    Oh, and if you really believe all that crap you posted above, about how women are- you really need to spend time with a better quality of women. It’s not the rest of womenkind’s fault that you apparently hang out with the most ridiculous collection of women on the planet, though I would think you wouldn’t make those remarks publicly because it doesn’t speak well of the women in your family- who I suspect are actually much better than you say.

  156. abujubair

    As for women driving,(1) a proof has to be brought first from qur’aan and sunnah because this the constitution of Saudia Arabia,(2) the benefit has to weigh against the harms, Muslims don’t do things because of “popular demand” we are Muslim not democratic/or secular. The rulers are the rulers, but they are advised by the senior religious scholars(as the messenger said), When the rulers take office they must swear to uphold the qur’aan and sunnah and defend Islaam and Saudia Arabia from their/our enemies, the rulers are the custodians of two of the most holiest places in islaam, and they are trying to balance Islaam with our times, just like 2.5 billion other Muslims are trying to do in a world that is against us. This is not easy for them, me, you, us.!!!

  157. AJ

    Abujubair, where does Quran say that men are intellectually superior than women?

    • abujubair

      Allah gives everyone a different intellect. A man may be smarter than a woman, or a woman may be smarted than a man. Allah our creator knows better. But in Islaam it is not about who is smarter, the best human in the sight of Allah who whoever obeys and fears him the most regardless of race, color. However creed plays the major role in all of this.

  158. bigstick

    Abujubair, Can people opt out of your version of Islam as your version sucks. If not then isn’t there compulsion in religion? Isn’t it contradictory to the Quran which says religion is not compulsory or was this one of those verses that was abrogated in the quran?

    • abujubair

      Also, there is one method(manhaj) of islaam(submission) that Allah accepts, and that is what he revealed to “all” his prophets and messengers(Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Lot, Muhammad, etc..)
      Why would the creator accept that which he did not reveal to his creation. One way only, there may be multiple truths is other realms but not this one.
      The creator is one(to be worshiped), and his religion is one. All of these religions contradict each other, so it is impossible for them to be from the creator, this would attribute confusion to him. Islaam refutes all false ideas and religions, and asserts that there are many gods but they don’t create, maintain. forgive, or control the affairs of the universe etc.., so they are false. And their followers are misguided, and deluded.

  159. abujubair

    Bigstick. The verse you are referring to is in surah Al-Baqarah:256. Shaikh Bin Baz explained this issue briefly:

    Some friends say that whoever does not enter Islam, that is his choice and he should not be forced to become Muslim, quoting as evidence the verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
    “And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad) then compel mankind, until they become believers”
    [Yoonus 10:99]
    “There is no compulsion in religion”
    [al-Baqarah 2:256]
    What is your opinion concerning that?.

    Praise be to Allaah.
    The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.

    Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

    Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

    [al-Tawbah 9:5]

    He did not say, “if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

    [al-Tawbah 9:29]

    And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.

    The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”

    [al-Anfaal 8:39]

    “Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

    [al-Tawbah 9:5]

    This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).

    These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.

    And Allaah is the Source of strength.

    Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219

    I say (Abu Jubair), the same way we force children to take medicine, go to school etc, or force an unruly drunk, or sober adult to submit to the police, or how we apply force to a man who beating his wife, kids, or another man etc. And force does not always mean violence.

  160. bigstick

    Got it. Muslims who say there is no compulsion in Islam are lying. You either become muslim whether you like it or not or you will be killed or FORCED to pay protection tax (mafia style). I am so glad you cleared that up. Islam means peace unless you are a woman, non-muslim or some who doesn’t believe your version. Thank you for clearing that up I now understand that Islam means peace as you hold a sword everyone’s throat. Wow. Thanks.

    • abujubair

      Those muslims who say this are either ignorant, or apologetic. Islaam does not mean peace, it means submission, salaam means peace. How you comprehended this issue is not how it is, read what i sent you again. Well Muslims(men and women) are fought against for not paying the yearly charity(zakat) that is imposed on the Muslims, and it can be forcefully taken from them the same way the United States government can force Americans to pay their taxes, or child support.
      And Allah made it permissible(in certain situations, for certain crimes against humanity, or the creator) to kill humans from “his creation” that posses characteristics that are harmful to other humans(mankind), the same way we(humans) kill a lion, dog, shark, etc.. when they attack a human.
      And there is no comparing animals to human beings because we have intellect animals don’t, this is why humans are more harmful to each other than animals.

  161. bigstick

    Sorry my bad, Islam means submission. You have got a lot of muslims lying out there. I tell you I have heard many say that there is no compulsion in Islam and it means peace. So now what are the characteristics that are harmful to other humans that would result in killing?

    • abujubair

      Murder, unless the family forgives him/her, or the murderer pays the blood money, rape, drug “smuggling”, adultery, the magician and there’s more. the ultimate judgement in each case varies….

      A Bigstick the proofs that i have provided to you in earlier posts is from the two main sources of Islaam, Qur’aan and sunnah. Most muslims nowadays try to water down the religion in the face of non-muslims, or they do as the christians have done; accept part of the religion and throw the rest behind their backs. Or like how the majority of mankind has done which is to say and believe that religion is like milk; perishable.
      Everything from polytheism(the worst sin),atheism, to magic, to homosexuality/lesbianism, alcohol, fornication, anal sex(man or woman), gambling, interest, etc… we played the legislator of the heavens and earth. It’s one thing to fall into sin while “knowing that you are wrong” and seeking forgiveness. But when you make sin “allowable” through human fallible reasoning you are playing creator and commander.

  162. AJ


    “So now what are the characteristics that are harmful to other humans that would result in killing?”

    What does that mean?

    • abujubair

      Even if you look at the disease homosexuality/lesbianism, this is major sin against the self and humanity. It goes against the will and commands of the creator natural disposition, intellect, and wisdom. But the so-called intellectual have taken upon themselves to make allowable. 10-15 years ago the scholarly journals medical and psychological listed homosexuality/lesbianism as mental and social disorders, now those who abhor these diseases have the title of being homophobic, in order to protects the diseased hearts of the homosexual/lesbians/transgendered.

      Now these people are teaching the youth/their children that just because you are born with a penis that it is not necessarily for a vagina, and vice verse. Basically you can be WHAT/WHO EVER you want, forget the obvious, Forget that you keys go into locks(penis into vagina). The natural way.

  163. bigstick

    I don’t know. Abujubair is the one that made that statement. As you can see my sentence is framed as a question. I just want to know what the heck he means.

  164. bigstick

    So your are stating that the bible and torah have been changed therefore rendering them void due to the fact that you are unable to discern what is really meant to be and that by applying the standards of the current bible or torah could be in direct violation of what the Creator wanted; be it punishment, daily activities, etc. Therefore, it is best not to follow these books because of there inaccurancy and/or disagreement in text. Is this a correct assessment of your stance or belief?

  165. abujubair

    Yes, !!! they have been altered and most Christians will tell you, and if you do your own analysis/research you can clearly see this, and Allah mentioned this in the qur’aan that the Jew and Christians changed their scripture, specifically by saying that Jesus is God, and the trinity, original etc…

    The qur’aan abrogated the previous scriptures Allah says in the Qur’aan:
    And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur’aan) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you.The return of you (all) is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ. 5(48)
    So because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allah loves Al-Muhsinun (good-doers – see V.2:112).
    (And remember) when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) to make it (the news of the coming of Prophet Muhammad SAW and the religious knowledge) known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it, but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And indeed worst is that which they bought. 3(178)
    Many of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even, after the truth (that Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allah’s Messenger) has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allah brings His Command. Verily, Allah is Able to do all things.2(109)
    I say, it’s ironic because you people call us backwards, barbaric, and everything else, you want us to be like you, so called “progressive”, Allah has already informed the Muslims of their plots over 1400 years ago, so this and others prove to be true. ALLAHU AKBAR.!!!

  166. bigstick

    Thank you for answering the question. Now why should I believe that the Quran has not been corrupted or changed when the hadith that you use to support your arguments state that it has been. Here are the hadith that support that position.
    1. Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 514, p. 482; book 61
    2. Bukhuri: vol. 4, hadith 682, book 56
    3. Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 509, p. 477; book 61
    4. Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 521, pp. 487-488; book 61
    5. Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 468, p. 441-442; book 60
    6. Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 527, p. 489; book 61
    7. Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 510, pp. 478-479; book 61
    8. Bukhari: vol. 8, hadith 817, p. 539-540; book 82
    9. Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 60, p. 46; book 60
    10.Mishkat Al-Masabih: book 8, ch. 3, last hadith [4]
    11.Muslim: vol. 4, hadith 6022, p. 1312; book 29
    Here is the supporting website that supports that statement:

    I would be interesting in how you respond. If you are unable to access the arguement based upon the website, let me know. Of course if you want to believe in your version of Islam that’s fine but if there is seven different versions and Muhammad (pbuh) stated that these versions are different but correct; then the question is why can’t someone live by a different version as allowed by Muhammad (pbuh)? Again, your response is appreciated.

    • abujubair

      Look at this Q&A this explains clearly the differing variations in Islaam, Christianty, and Judaism….
      Q- There are many religious sects and groups, each claiming that they are the victorious one. This matter is perplexing to many people, so what should we do, especially as there are groups that are related to Islam, such as Al-Sufiyah, Al-Salafiyah, and others, and how can we distinguish between them? May Allah bless you.

      A: It is confirmed that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “The Jews split into seventy-one sects; one will be in Paradise (i.e., those who followed Moses) and seventy will be in the Fire. The Christians split into seventy-two sects; seventy-one will be in the Fire and one will be in Paradise (i.e., those who followed Jesus). And by the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, this Ummah (nation) of mine will split into seventy-three sects; one will be in Paradise and seventy-two will be in the Fire. It was asked, “Who are they, O Messenger of Allah?” He (peace be upon him) said, “Al-Jamaýah (i.e., the group which adheres steadfastly to the way of the Prophet, peace be upon him, and his Companions).” And in another narration: “(Those who follow) what I and my Companions are following.”


    • abujubair

      The qur’aan has various modes, dialects when it comes to reciting it. The hadeeth narrated by Umar ibn Al-Khattab clearly says, “This Qur’an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever is easier for you….”
      Recite not understand, there only one understanding as i showed in the previous post. Every hadeeth from that bogus website refers to the recitation of the qur’aan, not understanding of it.
      Nice try, if you want to learn about Islaam don’t go to our enemies. Talk to the religious, knowledge based Muslims.
      Who the hell is Samuel Greene, and if he is a disgruntled Muslim or ex-Muslim he makes himself look foolish, next time you get sick skip the doctor and come see me to fix you up.

  167. bigstick

    Of course I could ask also why don’t people void the Quran as well as it could be said that it too has been changed in a way that would go against the directives of Allah. This is after all the same position you took earlier with the Bible and the Torah. Since the hadith make a case for this position as well. Again, your response is appreciated.

    • abujubair

      The qur’aan and sunnah(hadeeth) do not contradict, and the qur’aan has not been changed watch this. Allah says 10(37): And this Quran is not such as could ever be produced by other than Allah (Lord of the heavens and the earth), but it is a confirmation of (the revelation)which was before it [i.e. the Taurat (Torah), and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.], and a full explanation of the Book (i.e. laws and orders, etc, decreed for mankind) – wherein there is no doubt from the the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinns,and all that exists)”

      And it 17(88)’, “Say: “If the mankind and the jinns were together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another.”

      And also in 11:(13), “Or they say, “He (Prophet Muhammad SAW) forged it (the Quran).” Say: “Bring you then ten forged Surah (chapters) like unto it, and call whomsoever you can, other than Allah (to your help), if you speak the truth.”

      You are looking for holes, keep searching you find them in Islaam.

  168. bigstick

    So, you have no intention of enlighting me on the hadith that are presented. Why are you taking the easy way out? Can’t you address the issue? You were quite elaborate in your position with Sandy. Is there no other way that you can make an argument for you position other than deferring it. So why is it impossible for other people to read the hadith and be able to come to a decision. Is it that you are not able to address it because it is true? You have been the expert up to this point. Again, I look forward to your response.

    • abujubair

      The religion is not left up to the intellects of the many, if it was there would be no unity because every one has an opinion. The Messenger was trusted by Allah, and the Messenger said, ” all in the fire except one; those who follow what me (him) and his companions are upon.” One way only.

  169. bigstick

    This proves nothing except that there is contradictions which only fuels my belief that the Quran has been corrupted. I have to go now as I have a life to attend to at this point. It has been interesting blogging with you. Thanks for the insight.

  170. abujubair

    I’m not here to guide you,or to convince you; you will only be guided if Allah wills. Im here to defend my deen(way of life), and also to demonstrate that JIHAD is not limited to bloodshed. it has many forms.

  171. bigstick

    Last comment for now. I am amazed that you aren’t here to guide me but yet you seem to with so many others. Maybe you should expand you parameters of your deen. It could be you are following the wrong path and if so then by your own admission you are bound to hell. Just a thought, ya know, you could be wrong. Hell hath no fury like a scorned Allah.

    • abujubair

      I can’t guide Allah says in 9(24), “Say: If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight … are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving hard and fighting in His Cause, then wait until Allah brings about His Decision (torment). And Allah guides not the people who are Al-Fasiqun (the rebellious, disobedient to Allah)”

      The verse clearly shows that guidance is based on Islaam and sunnah, and sacrifice, and those who fail to do both are rebellious so Allah does not guide them. We also see that it is Allah who guides his slaves(creation). You and your billions of mal-intellect cronies choose to be runaway slaves.

      As for the Muslims who posted on this sight, yes; I have a certain type of affection for them because they are Muslim and dear to Allah, and then me. As for the others I have a general concern for their well being, they are confused and bewildered by our enemies and the weak, scared, apologetic Muslims, but my deen is more beloved to me than my own-self. I will not depart from it.

      • As a Muslim, based on the “quality” of your “certain type of affection” you feel compelled to adhere to, -for my portion, I’d rather go without please. It smacks of condescension and hypocrisy. I need no type of affection whatsoever from someone who repeatedly remarks on my ignorance and holds women in such low regard, and feels they can pass judgement on others as though they are Allah himself. I want nothing to do with it.

      • abujubair

        Sandy, everything i have brought thus far in defense of, and clarification of islaam is based from islaam and you claim islaam. You have not brought anything from Islaam to claim that i am wrong, and im am open to constructive criticism from anyone(muslim or kaafir when im wrong. Andy, you Lord Allah azza wa jalla compelled you and all Muslims to submit to Allah and his messenger.
        Allah says””It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error”. [The Holy Quran (33:36)]

        and also Allah says,”O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.” 4(59)

        This how disputed are settled amongst believers, we DO NOT TURN TO THE KUFFAR AND DEVIATED WAYS AND OPINIONS FOR OUR DECISIONS, and I know that you are in full agreement with this issue after the proof being cited.

        I do not hold that women are” nothing”, they are just not equal to the man in all aspects. Allah says concerning Imran, the father of the virgin Mary, “But when she delivered her, she said, “My Lord, I have delivered a female.” And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered, “And the male is not like the female. And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge for her in You and [for] her descendants from Satan, the expelled [from the mercy of Allah ].”3(36)

        He said the man is not like to woman, so therefore the rights and roles of each are different.
        Shaikh Saalih Al-Munajjid says,”Women are like men in some aspects and they differ from them in others. Most of the rulings of Islam apply to men and women equally. In cases where a distinction is made between the sexes, the Muslim regards that as a mercy from Allaah and a sign of His knowledge of His creation, but the arrogant kaafir sees it as oppression and injustice, so he stubbornly insists on claiming that men and women are the same. So let him tell us how a man can carry a foetus and breastfeed it? He stubbornly ignores the weakness of women and how they bleed during their monthly period, and he stubbornly beat his head against the rock of reality. But the Muslim is still at peace with his faith, surrendering to the command of Allah.”

        Sandy when I say your ignorant is when you joint the chorus of the kuffar, against that which you believe in. You cannot pick and choose in islaam at all, if so the Muslim will be deficient, Allah says, in 2(208),
        ” O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.”

  172. Monica

    Hitler had ideas less racist and integralist then yours.

  173. bigstick

    Monica, I think the passage whereby Abujubair revealed that there is compulsion in Islam strongly indicates that he and Hitler would be in great agreement on numerous issues. I believe he made his position very clear. You should also know that many who follow a certain brand of Islam proudly wave Hitler’s name as someone they look up to. You may have in fact just given Abujubair a compliment without knowing it. Remember the Palestine Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseinii who was a sunni muslim allied his cause with Hitler which he viewed as supporting (his brand) Islam’s position. Remember this is a small fraction of people who follow a certain brand of Islam (at least we hope) even today you have people in other religions or movements who support Nazism so you can’t taint an entire belief, people or movement by the few. But of course these people would feel proud that you acknowledged that they were emulating the mentor.

    • abujubair

      Bigstick, I sent you clear unequivocal evidences from qur’aan and sunnah last night that there is only one acceptable understanding in Islaam. At this point you are choosing otherwise. Yes there other idea out these in the name of Islaam, but does Islaam claim these ideas, were these ideas present while the qur’aan was being revealed to Muhammad, while Islaam was being revealed over the 23 year period.
      The messenger of Allah said, “My Ummah will be divided into 73 sects. All of them will be in the Hell-Fire except for one sect”? ALL EXCEPT ONE MR. BIGSTICK.
      And he also said, “”A group of my Ummah shall remain steadfast, on the truth, victorious, unharmed by those who oppose them, and do not support them, until the death or until the Day of Resurrection.”
      He said, “a group”, So a group out of 73 will remain steadfast upon the truth; this automatically means that the other 72 groups will be in the fire, due to errors in methodology and beliefs.
      Q5: Does the statement of Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) regarding divisions in his Ummah apply to the the creeds, sects, and denominations that exist today? Allah’s messenger said, ” Whoever introduces something into this affair of ours that is not of it (i.e. religion) it will be rejected. and this other Hadith: My Ummah will split up into seventy-three sects, all of them will be in the Fire except one sect? Guide us to the right answer! My Allah reward you !

      A: Every denomination or newly invented sect created by people and contradicts Shari`ah (Islamic law) falls under this Hadith of Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him): Whoever introduces something into this affair of ours that is not of it (i.e. religion) it will be rejected. and also under this Sahih Hadith (a Hadith that has been transmitted by people known for their uprightness and exactitude; free from eccentricity and blemish): “My Ummah will split up into seventy-three sects, all of them will be in the Fire except one sect.” They asked: “Which one, O Messenger of Allah? He replied: “Al-Jama`ah (the true followers of the Prophet).”

      In another narration, the Prophet’s reply was: It is the one (sect) that follows what I and my Companions are upon now. Hence, whatever practice, deed, or act of worship people invent as a means of drawing nearer to Allah thinking that they will be rewarded while in fact it contradicts Shari`ah, it is considered a Bid`ah (rejected innovation in religion) that falls under this dispraise and censure stated by Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him).

      Accordingly, it is the duty of all Muslims to weigh their words, deeds and acts of worship against the statements of Allah and His Messenger, what has been ordained by Allah, what is authentically reported from Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him), what is in accordance with Shari`ah and what is stated in Allah’s Book (the Qur’an). This leads to the acceptable truth! On the other hand, whatever act or manner of worship that conflicts with the Book of Allah or the Sunnah (whatever is reported from the Prophet), it is rejected and it falls under this Hadith of the Messenger (peace be upon him): Whoever introduces something into this affair of ours that is not of it (i.e. religion) it will be rejected. .

      All of this discussion refers to the acts of worship innovated by people as means of drawing nearer to Allah. However, new designs and modern inventions, such as weapons, vehicles, clothing, food, etc, are not what this Hadith refers to. The Hadith has to do with the acts of worship that people perform seeking to draw nearer to Allah. This is what is meant by the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) statement: Whoever does something that is not in accordance with our command, their deed is to be rejected. and: Whoever introduces something into this affair of ours that is not of it (i.e. religion) it will be rejected.

      This Hadith also involves such contracts that contradict the Shari`ah, for any contract that runs counter to the Shari`ah is considered null and void.

      – Shaykh Ibn Baaz rahimahullah

  174. There are indeed many things Muslims can pick and choose because there are many very marginal “scholars” out there and their are many poor sites that claim to be Islamic and there are many ignorant people who think that Hadith equates with Sunnah. There are many who pick and choose to follow Salafi/Wahabi teachings and who pick and choose to follow Saudi based scholars who primarily focus on twisting Islam to follow Patriarchal/Tribal ways. Those that follow their own desires of how things should be and chose to follow the scholars that support those desires no matter how poor the scholarship. There are those that pick and choose to judge others as though they are Allah himself. There are those that pick and choose not to believe that Allah is really MOST Merciful, Beneficent and Generous etc. and instead make him out to be an intolerant petty medieval tyrant. We all pick and choose based on our understanding of things, our spiritual sense, our knowledge and cognitive abilities. You are in massive denial if you think you don’t. And massively arrogant to assume you have chosen the one right path.

    Anyway, enjoy your choices. I absolutely chose differently and would be ashamed to face Allah on the day of judgement holding some of the beliefs you have expressed here.

    • Anyway, I said before I had nothing more to say to you- and I really don’t. Nothing gets through anyway.

    • abujubair

      Sandy I ask you in the name of Allah to open your heart, and listen with your heart, not your mind. The sunnah is what the messenger said, acted upon, and silently approved of, included in this is the hadeeth. The term hadeeth literally story, words(verbal), etc. So hadeeth is sunnah and sunnah is hadith. Yes there are plenty of marginal scholars and these scholars are the majority in this day and age. But majority means nothing to Allah as he says in 6(116),” And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah . They follow not except assumption, and they are not but liars.” and the hadith of the 73 sects clearly shows that the majority means nothing to Allah, and the hadith also clearly that only the methodology, and creed of the messenger and his companions is accepted, the rest in the fire, “”My Ummah will be divided into 73 sects. All of them will be in the Hell-Fire except for one sect”? , are just gonna ignore this hadeeth…????

      and Sandy we do judge in our religion look at the verse, 5(49), “And judge, [O Muhammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away – then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.”

      As a matter of fact three men were just beheaded for their RAPE of a woman in Saudia Arabia today. Imma sent you the link, and article….

  175. abujubair

    2 Chadians, Saudi beheaded for rape

    Published: Nov 15, 2011 02:11 Updated: Nov 15, 2011 02:11

    JEDDAH: Three men, a Saudi and two Chadians, were executed in Jeddah on Monday.

    Badr bin Sami Al-Sudani (Saudi), Ahmad Zain Ishaq and Muhammad Bashir Hasan (both Chadians) were sentenced to death after being convicted of raping a maid and two men in a house in the Al-Mushrefah district of north Jeddah two years ago.

    According to the court verdict, the men attacked the maid after she started screaming when she saw strangers scaling the outside wall of the house. The criminals overpowered two men who came out of their rooms hearing the woman’s screams. They tied and gagged the men before sodomizing them. Police started investigations and arrested the culprits shortly afterward.

    “The trio broke into the house late in the night. The first and third defendants, Al-Sudani and Hasan, raped the housemaid repeatedly after threatening to kill her. They also attacked three other people in the house and raped two of them. Their crimes also included robbing the house,” an Interior Ministry statement said.
    This is so disgusting what these nasty men did, but they were judged by qur’aan and sunnah.

    • I read the paper here regularly. And I wonder who the other two people raped were- as maids being raped is not that unusual and usually nothing happens. Women have also been sentenced to lashing for being raped. There is NO consistancy in the application of law here because it is uncodified and at the whim of the judge. Often Sunni/Shia or tribal affiliations come into play and often- though not always as this article shows- women get the short end of the stick as they are essentially pieces of property here.

      • Did you also read about all the illegitimate children in the orphanages? You critisize the west for illicit sex and unwed motherhood- yet at least they can keep their children and they are not stigmitized. Here the babies are into an orphanage so everyone can pretend there is no illicit sex, men can avoid their responsibilities and everyone pretends the children are orphans- which they are not.

      • abujubair

        Sandy,the Muslims in Saudia Arabia are not perfect, we all make mistakes(me too), but in Islaam abortion is haraam after four months. We have been commanded to avoid sins, and if we fall into them to cover our faults, to hide our sins.The messenger said, :: “All of my ummah will be excused/forgiven except those who make their sins known to others.” So these Muslims who fall into zina (fornication) should have covered their sins(pregnancy in this case) by aborting the child, i never heard of this issues you are talking about, but if it is true it reveals the evils of fornication(zina).
        I see you do alot of reading about Saudia Arabia from the negative aspects that is why(maybe) your heart is sooo hard. We have been going back and forth for a couple of moths i never heard you say anything good about Saudia Arabia(at all).That is why i asked you if you are Muslim. There is more positive in those people that negative, you commit the evil, how would you like it if someone just “only” pointed to your bad deeds.

        And we can judge where Allah and his messenger has judged(in certain areas), and i see that you have very little understanding of Islaam, or you have been deluded in your teaching. May Allah guide you and me, Ameen.
        Shaikh-ul-islaam ibn taymiyyah said, “some people are like flies, they always land on something bad.”

      • abujubair

        You have understand every case is different, and it is treated differently. Look the the Qatif girl who raped in park with a men who was not her husband. There is an hadith that warns against being in the company of a males who are not your relatives, or husband. This khlawah( being in seclusion with a non-related man or woman) we all know that this is means to fornication. So she was lashed too because she broke the law. Everyone was treated equal (everyone got some form of punishment.) This is justice.

        As for the Shi’a, they accused out mother Aisha of committing adultery, they say the qur’aan is not complete, they curse the messengers companions, calling some of the kuffar,they have plenty of grave and idol worship in their aqeedah, some of them believe that their imams know the unseen after Allah said that no one know the unseen except him. They still curse A’isha even after Allah revealed specific verses clearing of this SLANDER.

        Remember we are not a religion of equality, but a religion of justice. And justice means to giving everyone what they deserve, Allah says, ” “Verily, Allaah enjoins Al‑‘Adl (i.e. justice)”

        [al-Nahl 16:90
        And… Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allaah with their wealth and their live’

        [al-Nisa’ 4:95]

        Shaikh Uthaimeen mentions, “Not one single letter in the Qur’aan enjoins equality, rather it enjoins justice. You will also find that the word justice is acceptable to people, for I feel that if I am better than this man in terms of knowledge, or wealth, or piety, or in doing good, I would not like for him to be equal to me.

  176. Anyway as I said really enough. I can’t believe you think you have the knowledge to judge me as the one with the unopen heart. But it shouldn’t surprise me at all. I’ve never seen anyone who had so much judgement to give on another person. You are not Allah, nor are you his agent here on earth. So stop trying to act like it, and pretending that because in Islam actions are judged as right or wrong- you get to judge people.

  177. That does not mean it is ok to commit crimes against Shia (though I doubt you know much about what they really believe). And there is NO PLACE in Quran and NO PLACE in the Hadith that suggests any physical punishment for being alone with a man. Yes, one shouldn’t do it. Yes, it is unwise and may lead to wrong things. But there is NO physical punishment and NOTHING that says that makes rape ok. You are beyond ignorant. I only answered so that non Muslims wouldn’t think your sick ideas are actually Islamic.
    You need to educate yourself further on the definitions and concepts of “proof”, “justice” “equality” “scholarship” and the difference between “Sunnah” and “Hadith”.

    Everyone else- I can no longer speak with this man. It is futile. Please just note that not all Muslims view things the way he does and that at least some of him view him as appallingly ignorant and intolerant.

  178. I didn’t see your other comment up there. It is really sick you think it is ok to hide a sin by getting an abortion or tossing your baby into an orphanage. This is not about imperfect Muslims in Saudi’s. There are many wonderful Saudi’s. But the system is rotten to the core, and it is the Saudi’s themselves who suffer from that the most. And that is the fault of the clergy.

    • abujubair

      Well what are you an angel, covering faults is commanded in our deen, those who expose their faults will not have them forgiven. One of Allah’s attributes is As-Sattar(the one who cover faults of his slaves).

      So are you now accusing Allah, the most high, the most wise, the creator with nifaaq(hypocrisy)…!!???? I will retract what i said about, “getting an abortion”,(no scholars have preceded me in this statement, that i know of) but i will stick to covering your sins as it is is obligatory.
      The rulers and scholars make mistakes, as you do too, all you do is talk trash about them as if they(rulers and scholars) are noooo good at allll. What ever happened to defending the honor of your brother, whatever happened to have good suspicion(thoughts) before bad ones. You sided with that devil Monica before you sided with your own brothers and sisters.

      A man came to Abu Bakr(Muhammad’s closest companion), and complimented him on his good character, and Abu Bakr said,”if you knew what I knew about myself you would throw dirt in my face.” Very humble, but he knew his place, and even with that he was one of the ten companions who “will” enter paradise, and Allah said he is pleased with him.
      All you do is point out the faults of the Muslims and side with the kuffar(this is what I’ve seen) and anyone will Islaamic common sense who reads this blog will say the same.
      You know nothing of the basic principles that i am bringing from qur’aan and sunnah, you are very ignorant and this is intentional. Your emotions are making avoid the facts, and this is one of the deficiencies in (some)non-religious based women, and ignorant Muslim women. The sound religious women hear and obey their lord.
      Your arguments are based of emotions and ignorance. I clearly sent you the verse that said if we differ, we refer it back to Allah and his messenger.

  179. bigstick

    Abujubair, your logic is so small and circular. I have to say the statement that you make about covering your sin is very telling. It tells me you are all about expousing the quran and your perceived morality but you will do the opposite as long as it is not found out. I think that is called hypocrisy. As far as you statement on justice, I find that interesting. Your version of Islam sounds like hell on earth where torture and imprisionment are santioned not justice.

  180. abujubair

    When I criticize the west. it is in the same areas that Allah and messenger have criticized them in. They ALLOW, fornication to take place, they have have allowed what Allah has made permissible, this implies that Allah is wrong and they are correct. Saudia Arabia does not allow the crimes that Allah has forbidden to take place; although these crimes still do take place it is not condoned.
    When the people of constant rebellious sins are not shunned/checked it allows them to flourish and their sins become the norm. Look how homosexuality was once looked down upon in the west and no one checked it, the constitution protected those whom Allah offered no protection for and made the spilling of their blood permissible(even if they are muslim. As in the western culture.
    The Muslims are Allah’s agents on the earth on the earth Allah said, ““The believers, men and women, are Awliyaa’ (helpers, supporters, friends, protectors) of one another; they enjoin (on the people) Al Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do), and forbid (people) from Al Munkar (i.e. polytheism and disbelief of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden)” [al-Tawbah 9:71]
    And also Allah says,
    By Al ‘Asr (the time).

    Verily, man is in loss,

    Except those who believe (in Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, and recommend one another to the truth [i.e. order one another to perform all kinds of good deeds (Al Ma‘roof) which Allaah has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds (Al Munkar) which Allaah has forbidden], and recommend one another to patience”[al-‘Asr 103:1-3]

    And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

    “Religion is naseehah (sincere advice)…”

    And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

    “Whoever covers a Muslim’s (sins), Allaah will cover him (his sins) in this world and in the Hereafter.”

    Both were narrated by Imaam Muslim in his Saheeh. And Allaah is the Source of strength. We do not leave our brothers and sisters to their own vices…!!!

  181. bigstick

    So abujubair here is a question for you. In Quran 4:48 it states that Allah doesn’t allow anyone to set up partners with Allah and it is not forgivable. Then hadith goes on to talk about swearing to anything other than Allah is Shirk. Reference to this can be found in Sahih Al-Burkari 6101; Sahih Muslim 4040; Sunan Abu Dawud 3242; Sunan-an Nasai 3795; and Sunan Ibn Majah 2095; and Jami at-Tirmidhi 1534. Apparently it is explained that swearing to anything other than Allah has committed disbelief or shirk. This is stated in Jami at-Tirmidhi 1535- Ibn Umar said: “Nothing is sworn by other than Allah, for I heard the Messenger of Allah say: ‘Whoever swears by other than Allah he has committed disbelief or Shirk.” So would you agree that swearing by anything other than Allah places the item or person sworn to be as a partner to Allah and this would be the unpardonable sin of disbelief or Shirk?

  182. abujubair

    Bigstick, i’m no scholar, just a layman who read, studies, attends lectures and seminars concernig what I believe in. Pay attention to this. Allah says in An-Nahl:44″ And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Quran), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.”
    Shaikh Al-Albaani says, “the word explain is of two types 1)wording and arrangement of the qur’aan, 2) explanation of the meaning of the word or sentences that need to be explained. this occurs the majority of the time with the ambiguous, general, and absolute verses(3 types of verses in the qur’aan). So his(Muhammad) sunnah came to clarify the ambiguous, make specific the general,and absolute verses.This is achieved by way of the messengers(Muhammad) statements(hadeeth), as well as his actions and approvals(the sunnah)

    Allah mention in An-Najm53:(3-4-5), “Your companion (Muhammad SAW) has neither gone astray nor has erred.Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.It is only an revelation that is inspired”.
    Ibn Kathir says,”So one seeks the Tafsir(explanation) of the Qur’an with the Qur’an itself and with the Sunnah. If one cannot find the Tafsir in the Qur’an or Sunnah, he should refer to the statements of the Companions, who were the most knowledgeable of Tafsir, for they witnessed the situations and incidents that we did not witness.
    They also had the deepest comprehension, the most correct knowledge, and the most righteous works. Especially the scholars and leaders among them, such as the Four Rightly Guided Khalifahs and righteous Imams, and `Abdullah bin Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with them all. Imam Abu Ja’far bin Jarir At-Tabari narrated that ‘Abdullah bin Mas`ud said,

    “By He other than Whom there is no God, no Ayah in the Book of Allah was revealed but I have knowledge about whom and where it was revealed. Verily, if I know of a person who has more knowledge than me in the Book of Allah that the animals can reach (by travelling on them), I will travel to meet him.”

    Also, among the scholars of the Companions is the great scholar, the sea of knowledge, ‘Abdullah bin `Abbas, the cousin of the Messenger of Allah, and the explainer of the Qur’an, as a result of the blessing of the supplication of the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him. The Prophet invoked Allah for the benefit of Ibn `Abbas,
    (O Allah! Teach him Fiqh(understanding) in the religion and interpretation.) [3(end of Ibn Kathir’s notes)

    So if you attempt to clarify the qur’aan without the sunnah, you gain nothing because it was not revealed to you, nor did you witness revelation as the companions did. And because they were present during revelation they will always have the most understanding after Muhammad, this is why he said to also follow his companions. Same with the hadith, the books of hadith are complied according to subject, so some hadeeth explain others, making them clear.
    To answer your question, swearing by other than Allah is an “act” of shirk, that does not take a person out of Islaam. It is not major shirk as with the shi’a and Christians, sufis, Hindu’s etc…. If a person does it out of ignorance he taught and excused, if he does it again after being taught; i don’t know the ruling on that crime.

  183. bigstick

    So glad you finally answered the question. From one layman to another then tell me how do you rectify shirk in the quran if swearing to anything other than allah places that item or person on the same level as allah. Thus allowing it to be an idol or another God. Here are some issues I have encountered with the Quran on that point.

    Quran 36:2 I swear by the Quran full of wisdom; 38:1 I swear by the Quran, full of admonition; 43:2 I swear by the book that makes things clear; 50:1 I swear by the glorious Quran; 15:72 Verily, by thy life (O Prophet), in their wild intoxication, they wander in distraction, to and fro; 77:5 I swear by the angels who bring down the revelation; 79:1 I swear by the angels who violently pull out the souls of the wicked; 81:15 I swear by the stars; 85:1 I swear by the mansions of the stars; 56:75 I swear by the falling of the star; heck this just keeps going on and on. Let ‘s end it with 69:38-39 I swear by that which you see, and that which you do not see. So if Mohammed (pbuh) states that anything that you swear by you sets up a partnership with Allah then doesn’t it sound like just about everything especially that last part is on the same level as Allah. All of this can be found in the holy Quran. Just curious how do you address the partnerships?

    • abujubair

      The qur’aan is the speech of Allah, and through the qur’aan when Allah wants to strike a very important point he swears by something he created. Like in surah Al-Asr, Allah swore by time the mankind is in loss, and then he excepted certain praiseworthy attributes that a minority of his creation possesses. So that is Allah swearing by his creation, but if humans need to prove a point(at times) they are to call Allah as their witness.

      The essence of shirk(partnership/polytheism) is when the creation believes that something/one created has the power to do what Allah is only capable of doing, to ask the creation for what the creator only possesses, to believe that Allah has a partners, or helpers, or children, to direct acts of worship that Allah has commanded to others besides Allah(prayer, fasting, sacrifice, etc…), to call out others as well as Allah.

      Shirk involves giving Allah’s rights to others(the creation), to believe claim that a certain object,deity, or person has the power to bless one with one’s needs, and to believe that someone other than Allah knows the unseen this is major shirk. Shirk is the only crime that Allah does not forgive if a person dies while doing it. Shirk is a crime against the creator, so it is way more severe than crime against/sins the creation.

      Nothing/no one is on par with Allah, not Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, Lot, Abraham, Noah, Adam, etc. This what the Christians, Hindu’s, etc are upon pure polytheism, even though they “say” there only one god. So Allah is not equal to his creation, he has no partners, sons, daughters, etc….

    • abujubair

      Shirk has many aspects to, the categories are major shirk, minor, and conspicuous shirk. The Shirk that Allah refuted the jews and christians on is the major shirk, in allah’s worship(uloohiyyah), everyone bears witness to the wujoob(existence) of Allah except the arrogant atheists, who are actually inwardly convinced in his existence, but outwardly, stubbornly reject like fir’awn(Pharaoh) did. The scholars say that this is the worst type of kufr(rejection/disbelief).
      So Islaam affirms that the Jews and Christians believe in Allah’s exorbitance(creator, maintainer, most merciful, the all-provider, etc..) but in their worship they commit shirk, which nullifies all good deeds, because these deeds are not done solely for Allah alone with no partner. So in actuality thy disbelieve, their claim of his existence profits them none because the worship Allah upon polytheism(shirk).
      And tawheed(monotheism) is to single out alone in your worship, not to just say, and believe that he is one but to actually worship as one. AND THIS IS THE DISGUST THAT WE HAVE WITH THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK. Their claim is one, but action is another.
      A Bigstick, you will only confuse yourself if try to read the qur’aan and sunnah literally. It’s a process called tafseer that is used to explained the qur’aan by the qur’aan and sunnah.And the sunnah is explained by the sunnah(hadeeth explain other hadeeth), and also the narrations of the companions(salaf) are used to understand both sources(because they were present during revelation), this is called manhaj(methodology)
      It takes you deep into the religion. We have tens-hundreds of thousands of ahadeeth(plural), if not more, the books volumes of hadeeth are numerous, so are their compilers.
      So don’t go off all half cocked through the qur’aan making yourself look simple like Daniel Pipes, and Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch and Middle East forum. These guys open up one or two books, and try to explain 23 years of revelation. And they take “everything” literally, they even use the abrogated. Fools.
      Check this link and website out(
      The information on this sight is heavy reading, and it links to other sight that are very sound. Trust me sticky…!!!!

  184. Monica

    to Sandy: Please let me know more about orphanages, desertions, and illegitimate children in Saudi Arabia. When I can, sometimes I do some voluntary unpaid apprenticeship for a no-proft Society which works -here in Europe- for children without parents.. I’d like to know more to be able to do a comparision. Thank you.

    • @Monica,
      I don’t really know a lot about it. It is something I’ve heard bits about over the years, as I know people who have done work with orphages and in hospitals. Only recently have I seen it mentioned directly in the news- twice this year. (there have been other obscure references- once a story about babies being deserted in round-a-bouts. Legimate children wouldn’t be left).
      Here is a link to the most recent article:

      It’s interesting that some people might think this is an admirable way to cover a sin- however it violates an innocent child’s right to have parents and not be abandoned. That sort of “hide your sin” mentality could be used as an excuse to hide all kinds of criminal activity. I mean would it be ok to hide the fact that your Islamic neighbor is beating the hell out of his kids, or stealing from another neighbor, because you are to “hide his sin”? It seems to me the rights of the innocents come ahead of the “virtue” of hiding. Obviously you shouldn’t brag about your sin- or expose for no purpose as fodder for gossip. That is always how Muslims I know have understood it.

      • abujubair

        Sandy, watch what you say, How many sins have you committed that Allah has covered. I told you that one of his attributes is As-Sattar(the one who covers his slaves faults). And Allah messenger told that all his ummah(those who responded to his call/muslims) will have their sins forgiven except those who expose them, and don’t dare call it hypocrisy, because if you were to say this that would mean that Allah’s messenger has ordered us with sin.!! Now of course this has conditions, just say you dont understand, or that you are ignorant of the topic(keep it real).
        And the child that is born as the result of does not share in the sin of fornicators(man and women), nor is the child to be ostracized. But the fornicating male has no claims to the child, the responsibility of raising the child goes to mother, her family, and the society. Look at this hadeeth:

        It was narrated that Buraydah ibn al-Haseeb said: A woman from Ghaamid, a branch of al-Azd, came and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, purify me!” He said, “Woe to you! Go back and seek the forgiveness of Allaah and repent to Him.” She said: “I think that you intend to send me back as you sent Maa’iz ibn Maalik back.” He said, “What has happened to you?” She said that she had become pregnant as a result of zina. He said: “Is it you (who has done that)?” She said: “Yes.” He said to her: “(You will not be punished) until you give birth to that which is in your womb.” A man from among the Ansaar sponsored her [i.e., paid for her needs etc] until she delivered (the child). Then he (that Ansaari) came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “The Ghaamidi woman has given birth to a child.” He (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) said: “Then we will not stone her and so leave her child with no one to nurse him.” One of the Ansaar stood up and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, let me be responsible for ensuring that he is nursed.” Then she was stoned to death.
        Narrated by Muslim, 1695
        Sandy, look at what he said initially to her, “woe to you” (as only Allah purifies sins), and he implied to her to keep it between her and her Lord the most high(Allah). The general rule is that if we commit a sin and Allah does not expose it we are to cover it and seek forgiveness from Allah. the exception is when you want to purify through punishment as this woman did(she wanted it). The only time you reveal what Allah conceals is when you seek purification through punishment. (Even here in the “U.S.”, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT WHEN THE POLICE BRING AN ACCUSATION AGAINST YOU, BECAUSE THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE ACCUSER(POLICE/GOVERNMENT). JUST LIKE HUSBAND/WIFE DO NOT HAVE TO TESTIFY AGAINST EACH OTHER).
        Islaamically speaking we are to hide the sins/faults of our brothers and sisters when they do sins that harm themselves ONLY(smoking cursing,etc) now if they are harming, or about to harm others(even non-muslims) we are to stand-up and tell for the sake of Allah.
        Now if your neighbor who is muslim is beating his wife in an un-Islaamic fashion you are to advise him, if he persists you take to those in charge of the society.

        There is a lot more to this subject of gossip, slandering, and when to cover or expose the faults of the Muslims. As for the children in the orphanage, this obviously reflects how much fornication is looked down upon in that society, and thats good. But the child is supposed to be supported by the mother, her family, and the society. It’s not the childs fault. But look at what zina causes, this part of the reason why allah MADE IT HARAAM.
        Allah says in the qur’aan 2(286),” Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned.” If this story is true, it is sad. What the “people” have done to these kids, not “islaam”.

      • bigstick


        Is there anything good about Saudi for women? Reading Abujubair comments makes me think that if you had a brother, son, father or any male guardian who cares for his wife, daughter, mother, sister he would get her out as soon as possible. Saudi sounds like a living hell for women.

      • abujubair

        There is plenty of good there(Saudia Arabia) more, good that bad. They are still people, making mistakes as you, and I make everyday. The thing is that you people either put the “Muslims” (who are still human); you think we are infallible and put us on a pedestal. Or as Allah stated in 2:(120)
        “And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion/ways. Say, “Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance.” If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper”.
        And I say, that it is both.!!!
        Some you people(non-muslims/kuffar, and Muslims who are like you all) are just like Ibn Taymiyyah said,” some people are like flies, they always land on something bad.”

  185. bigstick

    I tell you Abujubair you are a interesting individual, sick as hell but interesting. You made a statement about an unislamic wife beating. Tell me what is an islamic beating and do you agree with hitting a women for any reason?

    • abujubair

      Here is the verse from Allah in surah 4(34),.” Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband’s] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance – [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.”

      Husbands must live with their wives honorably
      Q 115: My husband beats me and spits in my face for trivial reasons. What is your opinion?
      A: Every husband must fear Allah. He must neither beat his wife, nor spit in her face. Allah (Exalted be He) states: …and live with them honourably. The Prophet (peace be upon him) stated: Act kindly toward women! Verily You have taken them as a trust from Allah, and they have become permissible to you by the Word of Allah.
      (Part No. 21; Page No. 254)
      A husband should treat his wife kindly,
      fear Allah and be careful with her. He should treat his wife in the best possible way, being easy-going and gentle. Harsh beating and ill-treatment is not acceptable in Islam. If the wife disobeys her husband, he may resort to the slight beating which causes no pain or leaves a mark on the body. Allah (Exalted be He) states: As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful) Allah has pointed out the procedures the husband should follow when his wife shows ill-conduct and disobedience. Slight beating may be used in cases of ill-conduct on the part of the wife or extreme refraction and rejection of the husband’s reasonable requests on a consistent basis. Even then, other measures, such as exhortation and sleeping in a separate bed from hers should be tried first. For example, he may advise her to fear Allah and to obey him or to sleep in a separate bed from hers for one, two or three days. When these two measures are of no avail, the husband may resort to slight beating that leaves no injury or mark on the body. The well-mannered believer should not be macho or tyrannical with his wife.
      (Part No. 21; Page No. 255)
      Rather, he must treat his wife kindly. The Prophet (peace be upon him) was an ideal husband. He should emulate the Prophet (peace be upon him) and be easy-going with his wife. We ask Allah to guide all Muslims.(Shaikh Bin-Baz)

      A Bigstick, if you look at the whole of the Shari’ah not just bits and parts, like the people of incitement and hatred do, you will see men, women, children, drunks(habitual), etc get beatings(floggings) also. The women, and children receive the lightest as it is not to bruise and/or cause pain. And there all steps taken prior to beating one’s wife or children, and it is only recommended if the man thinks it will work, but don’t get it twisted men get beat too.
      You see they don’t tell you that. And again some apologetic Muslims will try to twist the word(beat, strike) to mean shun, or to turn away from. No, the shunning or turning away from takes place before the physical rebuke. Allah’s Messenger never beat his wives and told the men to follow his example, but he did apply the prescribed punishments(physical) to those who earned; men and women.

  186. bigstick

    Reading some of Muhammed’s treatment of women only inspires me to keep women away from the religion. I cannot see why any women would want to follow this religion as it sounds like she is despised for being a women, lower than dirt, thought to be deficient in every manner, imprisoned in her home and marriage is nothing more than the purchase of her vagina. From what I can tell she is a walking vagina and put into islamic hatal prostitution (called marriage) to be used by a man and thrown away when bored. Tell me what redeeming feature does this religion for any woman?

    • abujubair

      I don’t know what sources you read from but “no” Islaamic sources will slander his character, not even the deviant one’s; only rubbish from the your likes.
      Islaam honors the woman, you and West make her commodity for commercials,and men.You all use her beauty to sell products, and attract men. The West and you worships women. The West went from not even believing she was human to putting on par with men in all spheres. DO NOT JUDGE ISLAAM BY THE ACTIONS OF A MINORITY OF MUSLIMS, JUDGE THAT MINORITY OF MUSLIMS ACCORDING TO ISLAAM.

    • abujubair

      Walking vagina.!!! When the sophisticated, free, western woman gets dressed you can see her vaginal print, pantry lines, nipples, cellulite. She is the source of a whole host of politicians getting caught up in scandals, that she participated in??!! , and then she lays low until he about to achieve some worldly success and she pops up like a devil and exposes. The way the western woman dresses she turns heads and stirs desires, she is a flirt. And they act as if they don’t know what they are doing.
      In the west fornication is permissible, less than half of Americans are marrying, the men and women are whores.THE WOMEN HAVE BEEN GIVEN SOOO MUCH FREEDOM THAT MORE AND MORE WOMEN ARE SLEEPING AROUND LIKE MEN; GETTING PREGNANT AND NOT KNOWING WHO THE FATHERS OF THEIR KIDS(S) ARE. THEY OPTING OUT TO HAVE FRIENDS, AND NOT COMMIT TO MARRIAGE. The killing of babies is what these women do, because married couples don’t usually get abortions, just those free sleeping around women.
      Chaste women and MEN do not sleep around with multiple PARTNERS in the name of looking for Mr.Right/MS. Right. No decent man wants a woman that has been passed around , unless he is like her, or has a disease in his heart. Or if was part of he pass that she repented from.
      And you people takes the likes of Paris Hilton (cold whore) and make her star. Halle Berry did not win an Emmy or Grammy til she fake screwed a old dirty white a white man in her film !!!
      Look at your Multi-Billion porn industry which includes such fetishes such as urination, defecation, BDSM, simulated mother/son, simulated rape sex, and simulated incest. Look at the drug war in Mexico because of all the dope fiends in America. A Bigstick don’t criticize Islaam in the shady light of free thinking, democracy, secularism.

    • AJ

      Bigstick you are thoroughly mistaken.

      • bigstick


        Are you of the same belief as Abujubair. The extreme version or are you more liberal version?

      • abujubair

        A Bigstick, as i already demonstrated to you numerous times, there is only one brand of Islaam that is acceptable, and that is the Islaam that Allah revealed to his messenger Muhammad and the rest of the prophets and messengers. All other forms are deviations from the that pristine period of the first three generations.
        Dr. Saalih Al-Fawzaan stated: extremism can occur in excess or neglect, as for excess, it is going beyond what has been prescribed(drugs, medicine, religion. terrorism, etc), as for neglect, it is failing to do what is prescribed. So if you ever take time out to really ponder with an open heart you will see that islaam is a middle course deen. EXAMPLE:
        The Jews denied Jesus(Eesa) when he came to call them back to that which they deviated away from(The Torah/Old Testament Moses), SO THEY NEGLECTED THAT WHICH THEY WAS COMING TO THEM(Jesus).
        And when we look at the Christians who came after Jesus was taken off the earth(ascended into paradise) they believe that Jesus “IS” Allah, but the Bible shows that Jesus was/is one who is in need of the creator; it shows that he prayed, ate food, and even had fears, all of this demonstrates a weakness, so how can he be Allah or a part of him (trinity) as Paul (a former Jew who entered in to Christianity) innovated when he “introduced this doctrine of trinity into teaching of Jesus, so here is the Christians Going to the extreme.
        The Bible clearly states that Jesus is a Prophet as Islaam accepts him as, a Prophet, not Allah, or a part of him. So we see here an example of how extremism can occur, in excess or neglect.

      • AJ

        Bigstick, check out my blog and see what you think. I assure you though that you can not put me in a box as you have tried to do here with your views about Muslim women.

      • bigstick

        Give me the blog site.

      • AJ

  187. abujubair

    The Muslim Woman: Her Status in the Ummah

    By Shaykh ‘Abdul ‘Azeez Ibn Baaz (d.1420H) (rahimahullaah) [1]

    This small article was a response to a particular question concerning the position and status of Muslim women, and has been taken from his Majmoo’ Fataawaa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah (3/348-350).

    Source: Al-Istiqaamah , Issue No.1 – Dhul-Hijjah 1416H / May 1996

    The status of the Muslim woman in Islaam is a very noble and lofty one, and her effect is very great in the life of every Muslim. Indeed, the Muslim woman is the initial teacher in the building of a righteous society, providing she follows the guidance from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam. Since adherence to the Qur’aan and the Sunnah distances every Muslim male or female from being misguided in any matter. The misguidance that the various nations suffer from, the path of Allaah the Most Perfect, the Most High, and from what His Prophets and Messengers, may Allaah’s peace and prayers be upon them all, came with. The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “I am leaving behind two matters, you will not go astray as long as you cling to them both, the Book of Allaah and my Sunnah.”

    The great importance of the Muslim woman’s role – whether as wife, sister or daughter, and the rights that are due to her and the obligations due from her have been explained in the noble Qur’aan, and further details of this have been explained in the purified Sunnah.

    The secret of her importance lies in the tremendous burden and responsibility that is placed upon her, and the difficulties that she has to shoulder. In terms of responsibilities, some of which not even a man can bear. This is why from the most important obligations upon a person is to show gratitude to the mother, and kindness and good companionship with her. And in this matter, she is to be given precedence over and above the father. Allaah the Most High, says:

    “And We have enjoined upon man to be dutiful and good to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness upon weakness and hardship upon hardship, and his weaning is in two years. Show gratitude and thanks to Me and to your parents. Unto Me is the final destination.” [Al-Qur’aan 31:14]
    Allah the Most High, said: “And We have enjoined upon man to be dutiful and kind to his parents. His mother bears him with hardship, and she brings him forth with hardship. And the bearing and the weaning of him is thirty months.” [Al-Qur’aan 41:15].

    A man came to Allaah’s Messenger sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: O Messenger of Allaah! Who from amongst mankind warrants the best companionship from me. He replied: “Your mother.” The man asked: Then who? So he replied: “Your mother.” The man asked: Then who? So the Prophet replied again: “Your mother.” The man then asked: Then who? So he replied: “Then your father.” So this necessitates that the mother is given three times the likes of kindness and good treatment than the father.

    As regards the wife, then her effect in making the soul tranquil and serene, has been clearly shown in the noble aayah (verse), in His – the Most High’s – saying:

    “And from amongst His Signs is this: That He created for you wives from amongst yourselves, so that you may find serenity and tranquility in them, And He has put between you love and compassion. Indeed, in this are signs for those who reflect.” [Al-Qur’aan 30:21]
    Al-Haafidh Ibn Katheer (d.774H) – rahimahullaah – said, whilst explaining the terms mawaddah and rahmah which occur in the above verse. “Al-mawaddah means love and affection, and ar-rahmah means compassion and pity, since a man takes the hand of a woman either due to his love for her, or because of compassion and pity for her; by giving to her a child from himself…”

    And the unique stance that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam’s wife Khadeejah – radiallaahu ‘anhaa – took, had a huge effect in calming and reassuring Allaah’s Messenger sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, when the angel Jibreel – ‘alayhis-salaam – first came to him in the cave of Hiraa. The Prophet sallallaahu ‘alayi wa sallam returned to Khadeejah with the first Revelation and with his heart trembling and beating severely, saying to her, “Cover me! Cover me!” So she covered him until his fear was over, after which he told Khadeejah – radiallaahu ‘anhaa – everything that had happened, and said: “I fear that something may happen to me.” She said to him: “Never! By Allaah! Allaah will never disgrace you. You keep good ties with relations, you help the poor and the destitute, you serve your guests generouly and assist those who have been affected with calamities.”

    And do not forget about ‘Aaishah – radiallaahu ‘anhaa – and her immense contribution. Even the eminent Sahaabah (Companions) used to take knowledge of Hadeeth from her, and many of the Sahaabiyaat (female Companions) learnt the various rulings pertaining to women’s issues from her.

    And I have no doubt that my mother (may Allaah shower His mercy upon her) had a tremendous effect upon me, and has a great excellence over me, in encouraging me to study, and she assisted me in it. May Allaah greatly increase her reward and reward her with the best of rewards for what she did for me. And there is no doubt also, that the house in which there is kindness, gentleness, love and care, with the correct Islaamic tarbiyah (education and cultivation) will greatly affect the man. So he will become, if Allaah wills, successful in his affairs and in any matter whether it be seeking knowledge, trading, earning a living, etc. So it is Allaah alone that I ask to grant us all success and to guide us all to that which He loves and is pleased with. And may the prayers and peace of Allaah be upon our Prophet Muhammad, and upon his Family, his Companions and his followers.

    1. He is the exemplary Scholar: Abu ‘Abdullaah, ‘Abdul-‘Azeez bin ‘Abdullaah bin Baaz. He was born in the city of Riyaadh (Sa’udi Arabiah) on the 12th Dhul-Hijjah in the year 1330H. He began seeking knowledge by first memorising the Qur’aan before reaching the age of maturity. He then went on to study the various Islaamic sciences, such as ‘Aqeedah (Beliefs), Fiqh (Jurisprudence), Usoolul-Fiqh (Fundamentals of Jurisprudence), Hadeeth (Prophetic Narrations), Faraa’id (Laws of Inheritance), Nahw (Grammar) and Sarf (Morphology) – even though the Shaykh became permanently blind at the age of seventeen. He studied these sciences under some of the most prominent Scholars of Riyaadh and Makkah of his time, including Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abdul-Lateef ibn Abdur-Rahmaan ibn Hasan and also the former grand-muftee and noble scholar, Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem – whom he studied under for ten years. He is eighty-six years old, mild, generous and forbearing in nature, whilst firm, yet wise, when speaking the truth. He is a zaahid (one who abstains) with respect to this world and is one of the foremost Scholars of Ahlul-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’at in this present age. The noble Shaykh has – by Allaah’s grace – devoted his whole life to the cause of Islaam and its people, authoring many books and booklets, teaching and serving the masses, along with being very active in the field of da’wah. May Allaah protect our noble father and Shaykh, and may He continue to benefit the Ummah with him.
    This small article was a response to a particular question concerning the position and status of Muslim women, and has been taken from his Majmoo’ Fataawaa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah (3/348-350).
    2. Hasan: Related by Maalik in al-Muwatta (2/899) and al-Haakim (1/93), from Ibn ‘Abbaas radiallaahu ‘anhu. It was authenticated by al-Albaanee in as-Saheehah (no.1871).
    3. Related by al-Bukhaaree (no. 5971) and Muslim (7/2), from Abu Hurayrah radiallaahu ‘anhu.
    4. Tafseer Qur’aanul-‘Adheem (3/439) of Ibn Katheer.
    5. Related by al-Bukhaaree (1/22) and Muslim (1/139), from the lengthy narration of ‘Aa’eshah radiallaahu ‘anhaa.

  188. bigstick

    Now that is not true he did hit Aisha in the chest according to a hadith that I read and also there was another hadith that talked about a woman being greener than her veil or dress and Muhammad (pbuh) didn’t have a enough of problem with that to stop it. Which means it was okay. Aisha made a comment that believing women suffer more than non-believing women. So, I have to say I just not buying that he never hit his wives. Then he had a woman pulled apart because she spoke ill of him. Again, not seeing anything that endures me to think women are protected let alone respected. In fact, it sounds like men are anything but women’s protector.

  189. abujubair

    Islam came to honour women and raise their status, and to give them a position that befits them, and to take care of them and protect their dignity. So Islam commands women’s guardians and husbands to spend on them, to treat them well, look after them and be kind to them. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “and live with them honourably”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:19]

    It is reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you are those who are best to their wives, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 5/709, no. 3895.

    Islam gives women all their rights and allows them to dispose of their affairs in an appropriate manner. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise”

    [al-Baqarah 2:228]

    This includes all kinds of dealings, buying, selling, compromising, appointing others to act on their behalf, lending, depositing trusts, etc.

    Islam enjoined upon women the acts of worship and duties that befit them, the same duties as men, namely purification, zakaah, fasting, prayer, Hajj, and other acts of worship.

    But Islam gives a woman half the share of a man when it comes to inheritance, because she is not obliged to spend on herself or her house or her children. Rather the one who is obliged to spend on them is the man, just as the man is responsible for spending on guests, contributing to payment of ransom money, and spending on reconciling between conflicting groups.

    With regard to the testimony of two women being equivalent to the testimony of one man in some cases, that is because women tend to be more forgetful than men because of their natural cycles of menstruation, pregnancy, giving birth, raising children etc. All these things preoccupy them and make them forgetful. Hence the shar’i evidence indicates that another women should reinforce a woman’s testimony, so that it will be more accurate. But there are matters that pertain only to women in which the testimony of a single woman is sufficient, such as determining how often a child was breastfed, faults that may affect marriage, and so on.

    Women are equal with men in terms of reward, remaining steadfast in faith and doing righteous deeds, in enjoying a good life in this world and a great reward in the Hereafter. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Whoever works righteousness — whether male or female — while he (or she) is a true believer (of Islamic Monotheism) verily, to him We will give a good life (in this world with respect, contentment and lawful provision), and We shall pay them certainly a reward in proportion to the best of what they used to do (i.e. Paradise in the Hereafter)”

    [al-Nahl 16:97]

    So we know that women have rights and duties, just as men have rights and duties. There are matters which suit men so Allaah has made them the responsibility of men, just as there are manners which suit women so He has made them the responsibility of women.

    And Allaah is the Source of strength.

    Al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah li’l-Buhooth al-‘Ilmiyyah wa’l-Ifta’, 17/7

  190. bigstick

    I find it interesting that the Quran shows Muhammad’s (pbuh) life and teachings changed with the times (hence the abrogated versions) thus showing that as times changed so did his instructions and dictates. This shows me that the teachings of the Quran was fluid and moved with the situation. What I find interesting is that once he died his followers became stuck or regimented. Just an observation. Hollywood and movies are just that fantasy. Most women are hard working, moral, upstanding, intelligent, insightful, and respectfully. You have a few that aren’t but you have a few men that aren’t as well. I can tell most women are not forgetfully at all and have memories of an elephant especially if you miss a birthday, anniversary or special event. Many women are financially sauve, extremely intelligent and very capable of conducting their own affairs (no pun intended). I have no doubt if given the opportunity women in Saudi would show you that as well. It has also been shown that countries who allow women their autonomy as a society have better health care, better living conditions, and longer life spans. My understanding is the divorce rates in Saudi are actually equivalent or more than the west depending on the country. According to what I have reading about Saudi it doesn’t bode to well on the morality issue either. People in glass house you know. Read about the maid situation and certain countries not wanting to send people over because Saudi’s treat them horribly. That includes rape, beating, etc. You know when other countries are stopping foreign workers from coming over for fear of their treatment, the society has some problems. So I wouldn’t say too much about the western world’s treatment of women, sounds like Saudi does has some major problems on how they view and treat women period. I find those who say they are the most religious to be the biggest hypocrits.

  191. bigstick

    I have also read that drugs are well supplied in Saudi as well, again people in glass house.

    • abujubair

      Im not gonna keep on going back and forth with you, again you are comparing the incomparable. I’m not .Islaam does not tolerate the accusations you and your cronies are bringing. Western society allows what i bring, and what Western society allows the Old and New Testaments (EVEN IN CORRUPTED FORMS) does not allow what Western Christian society allows.
      Imma leave you with this verse from the qur’aan 109(1-6) “Say, “O disbelievers I do not worship what you worship Nor are you worshippers of what I worship Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion.”
      And you keep going through the qur’aan and sunnah looking for fault when I told and showed you last night that everything cannot be taken face value.

    • abujubair

      Every country has drug flowing in from the devils( not like the U.S.,(MOST DOPE FIENDS IN THE WORLD). I’ll tell you what, try to smuggle some in Saudia Arabia; get caught and watch you head get separated from your body. And your local Western embassy won’t be able to help you either.

  192. @Bigstick,
    Believe it or not, it is very possible to have quite a nice life as a women in Saudi. The problem is that it completely depends on the man who “owns” you. I have an excellent husband-who does whatever is in his power to not limit me and so my life is good. However I never make the mistake of thinking it is Saudi that has given me this good life- it is my husband. The Saudi people themselves are generally very nice- like people everywhere- you find people with similar lives and interests. The problem is that women have very little recourse when something goes wrong. And of course when men are over-empowered and have a sense of invincibility and entitlement it makes some of the weak-minded ones behave atrociously. I think Saudi spoils what might otherwise be perfectly good men, in the same way some parents spoil their children.

    And you are right. There are drugs here, like everywhere else. And there is fornication- hence the abandoned babies in orphanages. People aren’t any worse here- and they’re not any better than anywhere else. But this culture of “hiding” everyone’s sins just drives it underground so often people don’t get the help they need etc. It is getting better. There is a lot more openess in discussing the issues and people are more aware of them. Article in the newspaper deal with them- there are hospitals for drug addiction- I do see some hope. Now if only women can be allowed to grow up.

    Just for you information- there are many Muslims that realize many of the Hadith are problematic. They are the result of basically a 200 year game of “telephone” – if you are familiar with that. It is virtually impossible to verify even the strongest. So they need to be viewed with discernment. They have been effected by time, and the political climate they have come through. Of course there are many that cling tightly to them- as we have seen. Also, scholars such as Bin Baz while admired by many are also scorned by many. And there is no reason in Islam to follow ANY man’s opinions on things unless he actually has some authority. Bin Baz did for many years- however he doesn’t now. There are many who cling to scholars and rulings in spite of it being clear that there is to be no clergy in Islam. And they manipulate and reuse hadith as a tool to put forward whatever views they already have. There are other scholars that use much more discernment and have a better understanding of the origins and limitations of hadith and the “science” of hadith.

    • abujubair

      So you are in Saudi and your talking the way you are? It’s o.k. that your husband gives you free range as long as he does not go against qur’aan and sunnah.
      You said,”People aren’t any worse here- and they’re not any better than anywhere else.” How can you equate what Allah differentiated to utmost degree?? I can clearly see one thing that your husband is not giving you and that is the correct Islaamic education.
      They have free classes by the scholars and senior scholars in Makkah and Medinah, why don’t you and/or your hubby go approach these polite(as i have witnessed) men and ask about you doubts.? And the scholars are sooo numerous. This would serve you better than sitting on the internet talking trash, and backbiting like a coward.
      So i guess you just tell everyone all the wrong you do against your lord and his creation, you don’t conceal sins?
      We have been commanded to cover sins, and feel shame and remorse when we fall into sin; and to allow the women to mix freely with the men would only encourage more fornication than what is already present. And then would lead to decline in marriage (which Allah loves) because men can get from women what they want, without any parameters. And you already admitted (you and your crony) than men are “clever” that women.
      I admit that men can be dangerous to the welfare of a good woman thats why the sexes must be segregated. And women most of the time are naive to the nature of a man’s true motives.
      I am going to jumu’ah, i will deal with your hadeeth issue later……..

    • bigstick


      I will keep hoping that women in Saudi obtain basic human rights such as the right of self and movement.

      • Thank you. There are a lot of wonderful women in Saudi- but wonderful or not they ALL deserve their basic human rights and I hope and pray they will get them soon.

      • abujubair

        A Sandy, it baffles me that you are actually in a society(Saudi) that governs itself on qur’aan and sunnah(with mistakes), and you have access to all the holy sites(you say you are muslim), and i know that the scholars eagerly teach and were commanded by King Abdullah recently(last month) to explain islaam and the correct sunnah to the “world”, but you fiend ignorance?? How are you in the birthplace of islaam but ignorant of basic Islaamic principles?
        By the way, you called Abu Hurairah a liar after Allah said that he is pleased with him, he narrated the hadeeth about the fly, Well read Bigstick post for the refutation of you and your likes, and the acquittal of the trustworthy(Abu Hurairah).
        We went over this issue before about the hadeeth, the majority of them are trustworthy.These trustworthy ones are revelation from Allah; the messenger said that there was gonna be people who lie on him; we also went over the issue of the isnaad(chain of narration), and only accepting reports of trustworthy people(s).
        Even in Western court system(s) the narration/witness of respectable people is accepted, in death penalty cases, divorce, rapes, robberies; in robberies the testimony/eye witness of one individual is accepted.
        Western courts will even accept the testimony of a a self-confessed dope fiend(still on drug or recovering), murderer, rapist, thief, even an inmate in a jail suit, if there is supporting evidence to go along with it.

        Allah says in 49(6), ” O you who have believed9Muslims), if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.”

        Allah DID NOT say reject it, he said look into it. So it is permissible to accept stories(hadeeth), news, information from wicked people(when they are being truthful), well how much more than the companions whom Allah said (already) that was pleased with.
        Even Shaytaan demonstrated that he can be truthful, and that he told the truth, but Allah’s messenger still called him a liar.
        Like the kuffar they can tell the truth about worldly things, but they lie(kufr) about their lord, they conceal the truth.

      • abujubair
        The Noble Qur’an: its Virtue and Status as a Source of Legislation

        The Noble Qur’an is Allah’s Word through which He expressed His commands and teachings. It is raised above any possible description. The Noble Qur’an was revealed to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and was accepted by the believers as being the essence of truth. Moreover, the believers maintain that it is the Word of Allah and not the words of any of His creatures. Thus, whosoever claims that it is the words of a human being becomes a disbeliever.

        Allah described the Qur’an in the following verses: “And verily, it is an honourable well-fortified respected Book (because it is Allâh’s Speech, and He has protected it from corruption). Falsehood cannot come to it from before it or behind it: (it is) sent down by the All-Wise, Worthy of all praise (Allâh). (41:41,42). The Qur’an was also described by Allah in this verse: “(This is) a Book, the Verses whereof are perfected (in every sphere of knowledge), and then explained in detail from One (Allâh), Who is All-Wise Well-Acquainted (with all things). (11:1)

        In fact, the verses of the Noble Qur’an are very accurate, clear and obvious; they are perfected by the All-Wise and detailed by the All-Aware. This Qur’an will remain a miraculous Book with regard to the rhetorical, legislative, scientific, and historical aspects. It will remain unchallengeable in these and other aspects till the end of the world. It is preserved from the least kind of distortion; as Allah [exalted and glorified be He] said: “Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption). (15:9)

        The world as a whole has not got such a conclusive and comprehensive book as the Noble Qur’an, that contains all kinds of goodness, all the methods for guiding humanity to the straight path and all the means of happiness for humankind in this world and in the Hereafter. Allah [exalted and glorified be He] said: “Verily, this Qur’ân guides to that which is most just and right and gives glad tidings to the believers (in the Oneness of Allâh and His Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him)) who do deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a great reward (Paradise). (17:9)

        The Noble Qur’an was revealed by Allah to his Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) in order to lead the people out of the darkness of ignorance and polytheism to the light of guidance and monotheism. He [exalted and glorified be He] said: “(This is) a Book which We have revealed unto you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) in order that you might lead mankind out of darkness (of disbelief and polytheism) into light (of belief in the Oneness of Allâh and Islâmic Monotheism) by their Lord’s Leave to the Path of the All-Mighty, the Owner of all Praise”. (14:1)

        Through the Noble Qur’an, Allah [exalted and glorified be He] recovered the eyes blinded from seeing the truth, the ears deafened from listening to the truth and the hearts sealed and hindered from assimilating the reality. Through the Noble Qur’an, Allah promised happiness for Muslims in this world and in the Hereafter if they recite it in the way ordained by Allah, understand its Surahs and verses; comprehend its sentences and words, consider the limits of Allah included therein; follow its orders; refrain from its prohibitions; adjust their way of life in accordance with the legislation included therein and apply its principles and values to themselves, their families and communities. Allah [exalted and glorified be He] said: “Those (who embraced Islâm from Banî Israel) to whom We gave the Book [the Taurât (Torah)] [or those (Muhammad’s (peace be upon him) companions) to whom We have given the Book (the Qur’ân)] recite it (i.e. obey its orders and follow its teachings) as it should be recited (i.e. followed), they are the ones that believe therein. And whoso disbelieve in it (the Qur’ân), those are they who are the losers). (2:121)

        The well-known companion, Ibn ‘Abbas, said that this verse means: “Those are the people who follow the Noble Qur’an in the way it should be followed. They regard the unlawful included therein as unlawful and the lawful as lawful. They do not change the words from their (right) places.”

        The companion of the Prophet, Qatadah, said: “The reference in the verse is to the companions of Muhammad (peace be upon him) who believe in the Book of Allah [i.e. the Noble Qur’an], confirm this belief in their hearts, consider its lawful as lawful and its unlawful as unlawful and act according to the teachings included therein”.

        That is why the Jinn were impressed with the Noble Qur’an when they heard it. Their hearts were filled with its love and they hastened to call their people to believe in that Glorious Book. Allah [exalted and glorified be He] said: “Say (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)): “It has been revealed to me that a group (from three to ten in number) of jinn listened (to this Qur’ân). They said: ‘Verily, we have heard a wonderful Recitation (this Qur’ân)! ‘It guides to the Right Path, and we have believed therein, and we shall never join (in worship) anything with our Lord (Allâh). ‘And He, exalted be the Majesty of our Lord, has taken neither a wife nor a son (or offspring or children). (72:1-3) In another instance, Allah described the reaction of the Jinn when they heard the recitation of the Noble Qur’an. He [exalted and glorified be He] said: (They said: “O our people! Verily, we have heard a Book (this Qur’ân) sent down after Mûsâ (Moses), confirming what came before it: it guides to the truth and to a Straight Path (i.e. Islâm). O our people! Respond (with obedience) to Allâh’s Caller (i.e. Allâh’s Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him)), and believe in him (i.e. believe in that which Muhammad (peace be upon him) has brought from Allâh and follow him). He (Allâh) will forgive you of your sins, and will save you from a painful torment (i.e. Hell-fire).” (46:30,31)

        Because of all this, the Qur’an is superior to all the previous divine books. Allah [exalted and glorified be He] said: “And verily, it (this Qur’ân) is in the Mother of the Book (i.e. Al-Lauh Al-Mahfûdh), with Us, indeed exalted, full of wisdom).” (43:4) In another verse He [exalted and glorified be He] said: “And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) the Book (this Qur’ân) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Muhaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures).” (5:48)

        The commentators of the Noble Qur’an said that the superiority of the Noble Qur’an to the rest of the divine books – though all of them are from Allah – results from many things. The first advantage is that the number of its Surahs is more than the number of the Surahs in the other divine books. It is reported in a sound Hadîth that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was privileged with Sûrat Al-Fatihah and the concluding verses of Sûrat Al-Baqarah. On the other hand, a famous Muslim scholar, Ad-Darami, narrated in his book of hadith on the authority of ‘Abdullâh bin Mas‘ûd (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: “The long seven Surahs of the Noble Qur’an are equal to the Torah, the Mi’un Surahs are equal to the Gospel, the Mathani Surahs are equal to the Psalms and above all this, the Noble Qur’an is superior to all divine books”. The Muslim scholars, Imâm Ahmed and At-Tabarani, narrated on the authority of Wathilah bin Al-Asqa‘ that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “I have been given the long seven Surahs instead of the Torah, I have been given the Mi’un Surahs instead of the Psalms, I have been given the Mathani Surahs instead of the Gospel and I have been privileged with the Mufassal portion”. [Musnad Al-Imâm Ahmed 2/107].

        The long seven Surahs are six, starting from Sûrat Al-Baqarah and ending with Sûrat Al-A‘râf. The scholars differed regarding the seventh long Surah, whether it is Al-Anfâl and At-Taubah together, as there is no Basmalah to separate between them and thus making Al-Anfâl and At-Taubah as only one Surah, or it is Sûrat Yunus. The Mi’un Surahs are those containing one hundred verses, each, or more. The Mathani (oft-repeated) Surahs are of less than one hundred verses. They are called Mathani because they are repeated again and again more than the seven long Surahs and the Surahs containing one hundred verses. The Mufassal portion contains the short Surahs that come next to the Mathani Surahs. There is a disagreement among the scholars as regards the beginning of the Mufassal Surahs. Some said that they start from Sûrat As-Sâfât and others said that they start from Sûrat Al-Fath. A third group said that they start from Sûrat Al-Hujurat, and others said that they start from Sûrat Qâf. This last opinion is preferred by the two scholars i.e. Ibn Kathîr and Ibn Hajar. There are other opinions in this regard. However, they agreed that the end of the Mufassal Surahs is the last Surah of the Noble Qur’an, i.e. Sûrat An-Nâs.

        The most important characteristic of the Noble Qur’an is its miraculous style. Though all the divine books are miraculous; narrating the news of the unseen and detailing the rulings and judgements; however, they do not contain the extraordinary method by which the Noble Qur’an is distinguished. Allah [exalted and glorified be He] said: “And Verily, it (this Qur’ân) is in the Mother of the Book (i.e. Al-Lauh Al-Mahfûz), with Us, indeed exalted, full of wisdom). (43:4). There is another proof confirming this fact in the Noble Qur’an and that is in Allah’s [exalted and glorified be He] saying: (You [true believers in Islâmic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)) and his Sunnah] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind)” (3:110). The famous Muslim scholar, Al-Hafidh Ibn Kathîr, said that the Muslim Nation achieved this priority by virtue of the blessings of the Noble Qur’an, which Allah [exalted and glorified be He] preferred to all the revealed books, made it superior and Muhaymin (trustworthy in highness and a witness) of them and to abrogate and conclude them all. It is also worth mentioning that the other revealed books were revealed at once and not gradually in stages like the Noble Qur’an, which denotes the great care and interest attached to the Qur’an and to the Prophet Muhammad, upon whom it was descended. Every time a portion of the Noble Qur’an was revealed, it was equivalent to the revelation of a complete book from among the previously revealed ones. [Fadâ’il Al-Qur’ân (The Virtues of the Noble Qur’an) by Al-Hafidh Ibn Kathîr. pp. 102,103]

        This blessed Book, i.e. the Qur’an, stated many of the cosmic scientific facts proving the existence of Allah. Allah the Almighty said: “And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?” (21:30) The Qur’an also urges us to benefit from every conceivable thing in this life. He [exalted and glorified be He] said: “Say: “Behold all that is in the heavens and the earth,”” (10:101) In another verse Allah the Almighty said: “And He has subjected to you all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth; it is all as a favour and kindness from Him. Verily, in it are signs for a people who think deeply.” (45:13)

        Therefore, it is the duty of Muslims to contemplate the miracles of the universe, enjoying the fruits of these mighty powers which Allah has put in the stores of His heavens and His earth.

        It is true that the merits of the Noble Qur’an may never end. It is the Book that cultivated the love of justice and consultation in the hearts of the Muslims and made them hate injustice and despotism. The motto of those who follow the Qur’an is: the strong faith, self-denial, altruism and mutual mercy.

        A Muslim should dedicate his time to the Noble Qur’an, reciting it, understanding it, acting according to its instructions and memorizing it. This is the attitude of the believers, described by Allah [exalted and glorified be He] in the Qur’an as follows: “Verily, those who recite the Book of Allâh (this Qur’ân), and perform prayer (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and spend (in charity) out of what We have provided for them, secretly and openly, hope for a (sure) trade-gain that will never perish. That He may pay them their reward in full, and give them (even) more, out of His Grace. Verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (good deeds and to recompense).” (35: 29,30)

        In these two verses Allah the Almighty praises those who recite His Book and combine their recitation with contemplation and feeling. Undoubtedly, feeling and sensitivity lead the one reciting the Noble Qur’an to act according to the rulings of the verses he recites.

        For this reason Allah the Omnipotent combined the recitation of the Noble Qur’an with the establishment of prayer, spending secretly and publicly from the blessings of Allah and then with the hope for trade-gain that will never perish. The believers believe that the reward of Allah [exalted and glorified be He] is better than the property they spend. Moreover, they engage in the trade that will be the reason for getting their reward and more from the Grace of Allah, as verily He is the Oft-Forgiving, the Most Ready to appreciate, the One who forgives the shortcomings and rewards the good deeds.

        Thus, it is imperative to read the Noble Qur’an with contemplation in order to comprehend the Qur’anic statements accurately. However, if the reader is unable to understand anything from the Noble Qur’an, he has to ask the people specialized in the field. Allah [exalted and glorified be He] said: “So ask (you, O pagans of Makkah) of those who know the Scripture [learned men of the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] if you know not).” (16:43) Studying the Noble Qur’an is recommendable at all times. On the authority of Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “No people who gather in one of the Houses of Allah [i.e. the Mosques] reciting the Book of Allah and studying it among themselves, but tranquillity will descend upon them, mercy will envelop them, the angels will surround them, and Allah will make mention of them amongst those who are with Him. Whoever is slowed down by his actions will not be hastened forward by his lineage.” [Sahîh Muslim, Hadîth no.2699]. It is not a must to recite the Qur’an in the mosque in order to attain reward. This is confirmed by the Prophet’s Hadîth: “No people gather together remembering Allah the Almighty without the angels surrounding them…,” So, if they gather in a place other than the mosque and recite the Noble Qur’an and remember Allah, they will obtain the same reward as gathering and reciting the Qur’an in the mosque. The phrase “the House of Allah” in the Hadîth is not restricted to a specific place, rather it denotes what the people are accustomed to. Based on this, gathering for reciting and studying the Book of Allah and learning the basics of religion as well as comprehending the rulings and wisdoms interspersed in the verses in any place, whether it is the mosque or any other place, is rewarded with the best reward. However, gathering in the mosque is better than gathering in any other place, because of the blessings and the virtues of the mosque which are not found elsewhere.

        On the authority of ‘Abdullâh Ibn Mas‘ûd (may Allah be pleased with him), the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “He who reads a single letter from the Book of Allah will have one good deed as a reward, and every single good deed will be equated to ten good deeds. I do not consider “Alif-Lâm-Mîm” as only one letter but “Alif” is a letter, “Lam” is another letter, and “Mîm” is a third letter” [Narrated by At-Tirmidhi, Hadîth no.3075]

        On the authority of ‘Uthmân bin ‘Affân (may Allah be pleased with him), the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “The best in reward among you is the one who learnt and memorized the Noble Qur’an and thereafter taught it to other people” [Sahîh Al-Bukhâri, Hadîth no. 4793]. This is a concrete evidence of the virtue and blessing of learning the Noble Qur’an and teaching it. It also encourages the believer to study and memorize the Book of Allah. A famous Muslim scholar, Sufyân Ath-Thauri, was asked about the best thing for the Muslim to do; to fight in the cause of Allah or to read the Noble Qur’an. He said that it is better for the Muslim to read the Noble Qur’an because the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: “The best among you is the one who learnt and memorized the Noble Qur’an and thereafter taught it to other people”. Furthermore, Imâm Abu ‘Abdur-Rahmân As-Salmi stayed in Al-Kûfa mosque for forty years teaching the Noble Qur’an. Whenever he remembered the above mentioned Hadîth he said that this Hadîth was the main reason behind his stay in the mosque teaching the Noble Qur’an.

        Al-Hafidh Ibn Kathîr in his book titled “Fadâ’il Al-Qur’ân” (The Virtues of the Noble Qur’an) pp.126, 127 said that the main idea of the above Hadîth is that the Prophet (peace be upon him) described the best of the Muslims as the one who learns the Noble Qur’an and thereafter teaches it to other people. Ibn Kathîr stressed that these are the qualities of the believers who follow the Messengers (peace be upon them all). The believers are those who are perfect in their personality and who endeavour all the time to make others attain perfection and thus obtain benefit for themselves and for others. This description of the believers is contrary to the description of the disbelievers who neither benefit anyone nor let others strive to obtain their own benefit. Allah [exalted and glorified be He] said: “Those who disbelieved and hinder (men) from the Path of Allâh, for them We will add torment over torment because they used to spread corruption [by disobeying Allâh themselves, as well as ordering others (mankind) to do so].” (16:88) In another verse Allah said: “And they prevent others from him (from following Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)) and they themselves keep away from him, and (by doing so) they destroy not but their ownselves, yet they perceive (it) not.” (6:26) The most correct interpretation of this verse is that it was revealed concerning those who prevent people from following the Noble Qur’an and at the same time refrain from following it. Thus, they combine both belying the Qur’an and hindering people from following it. Allah the Omnipotent said: “Who then does more wrong than one who rejects the Ayât (evidences, verses, etc.) of Allâh and turns away therefrom?.” (6:157) This is the description of the disbelievers, which is in contradiction to the description of the believers who strive to perfect themselves and try to make others attain perfection as mentioned in the Hadîth of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). Allah described this kind of people in this verse: “And who is better in speech than he who [says: “My Lord is Allâh (believes in His Oneness),” and then stands firm (acts upon His Order), and] invites (men) to Allâh’s (Islâmic Monotheism), and does righteous deeds, and says: “I am one of the Muslims.”” (41:33) This kind of person mentioned in the verse combines the qualities of inviting people to the way of Allah, through proclaiming Adhân (the call to prayer) or by any other means, such as teaching the Noble Qur’an, the Hadîth of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), the Islamic law, and other branches of knowledge. These rites are performed for the sake of Allah and for the performance of good, in word and deed. Thus, none will be better than such kind of person.

        As Allah’s Mercy envelops those who recite His Book and follow the commandments included therein, it also overwhelms those who listen to it. Allah the Almighty said: “The believers are only those who, when Allâh is mentioned, feel a fear in their hearts and when His Verses (this Qur’ân) are recited unto them, they (i.e. the Verses) increase their Faith; and they put their trust in their Lord (Alone); Who perform the prayer (Iqâmat-as-Salât) and spend out of that We have provided them. It is they who are the believers in truth. For them are grades of dignity with their Lord, and Forgiveness and a generous provision (Paradise).” (8:2-4)

        ‘Abdullâh bin Mas‘ud (may Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said to me: recite the Qur’an for me. He asked: Messenger of Allah, (how) should I recite to you whereas it has been sent down to you? He (the Noble Prophet) said: I desire to hear it from someone else. So I recited Sûrat Al-Nisâ’ till I reached the verse: (How then shall it be when We shall bring from every people a witness and bring you against them as a witness?) I lifted my head, or a person touched me to attract my attention, and so I lifted my head and saw his (the Prophet’s) tears falling. [Narrated by Al-Bukhâri, Hadîth no.4582 and by Muslim, Hadîth no.800, and by Abû Dâwûd, Hadîth no.3668]

        Imâm An-Nawawi said that there are a lot of benefits in this Hadîth. The first one is the virtue of listening to the Noble Qur’an attentively; weeping while listening to it and pondering over the meanings of its verses. The second benefit is the virtue of asking others to recite the Noble Qur’an for the person, which is more impressive than reading by oneself.

        Therefore, it is the duty of every Muslim to recognize the status of the Noble Qur’an and act upon its rulings. It is also one’s duty to abide by the rites of religion during listening to the Noble Qur’an and to follow the way of the Salaf (Righteous Muslim Predecessors who are the ideal to follow) in reading the Noble Qur’an. They are the guiding stars that should be followed and imitated in every aspect of life. They (i.e. the Salaf) were the best examples to be followed in their perfect submission to Allah and in their understanding of the meanings of the Noble Qur’an. They had strong belief in Allah’s saying: “And truly, this (the Qur’ân) is a revelation from the Lord of the ‘Âlamîn (mankind, jinn and all that exists), Which the trustworthy Rûh [Jibrîl (Gabriel)] has brought down Upon your heart (O Muhammad (peace be upon him) that you may be (one) of the warners, In the plain Arabic language).” [26:192-95]

        It is true that the Noble Qur’an, its words and meanings, is from Allah. It is the divine legislation for all people and creatures; the first and the foremost reference for religious matters for Muslims; the judge solving all the problems in all affairs. It is worth mentioning that the rulings in the Noble Qur’an did not descend all at once, but came gradually, during the time of the Message. Some of these rulings aimed at strengthening the heart and the faith of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), and some aimed at supplying the Muslim Nation with knowledge and action. Still others were revealed on the occasions of some events that happened to Muslims in their daily lives in different times and places. Whenever something happened, certain portions of the Qur’an were to be revealed to give ample clarification about Allah’s judgement with regard to that event. These included juridical cases and historical events that used to take place in the nascent Muslim community during the era when legislation was in its formative stage. An instance of that was the case regarding alcohol drinking

        Imâm Ahmad narrated on the authority of Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) came to Madînah at a time when people were drinking wine and earning money by means of gambling. When they asked the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) about that, the following verse was revealed: “They ask you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: “In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit”” (2:219) When this verse was revealed, people understood that the verse did not include a clear prohibition, rather it described the harm and the sins incurred by them, both. They continued drinking alcohol till a day when a man from the immigrants led the Maghrib (sunset) prayer and, having drunk alcohol, committed a lot of mistakes in recitation. Then, another verse, which is somehow more strict than the above was revealed. Allah the Almighty said: “O you who believe! Approach not the prayer when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter).” (4:43) People, however, continued to drink alcohol, except before prayers, in order to come to the prayer in their full senses. Then the following verse was revealed: “O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al-Ansâb, and Al-Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitân’s (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful. Shaitân (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allâh and from the prayer. So, will you not then abstain?”. (5:90)

        When this last verse was revealed all the Muslims said: “We abstain O our Lord”. Some people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) about the ruling regarding those who were used to drinking alcohol and practicing gambling and died before that prohibition. Then, the following verse was revealed: “Those who believe and do righteous deeds, there is no sin on them for what they ate (in the past), if they fear Allâh (by keeping away from His forbidden things), and believe and do righteous deeds, and again fear Allâh and believe, and once again fear Allâh and do good deeds with Ihsân (perfection). And Allâh loves the good-doers).” (5:93) Thereupon, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said to his Companions: “If it was made unlawful for them, they would have abstained from drinking alcohol and practicing gambling, as you did.” [Musnad Al-Imâm Ahmad (Imam Ahmad’s Compilation of Hadith), 2/351,352]. Anas bin Mâlik (may Allah be pleased with him) said that he was the cupbearer in the house of Abu Talhah. When alcohol was prohibited, an announcer was ordered (by the Prophet) to declare its prohibition among people. Abu Talhah asked Anas to go out to investigate the matter. When Anas told him about the prohibition of alcohol, Abu Talhah ordered Anas to spill all the alcohol they had. Anas said that the streets of Madînah were streaming with alcohol because all the people spilt out their alcohol, which was known as Fadîkh. Some people talked about the fate of those who used to drink it and died before it was made unlawful. Then, this verse was revealed: “Those who believe and do righteous deeds, there is no sin on them for what they ate (in the past), if they fear Allâh (by keeping away from His forbidden things), and believe and do righteous deeds, and again fear Allâh and believe, and once again fear Allâh and do good deeds with Ihsân (perfection).” (5:93)

        We can conclude that alcohol was prohibited gradually and in three stages. The first stage was when this verse was revealed: “They ask you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: “In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit”” (2:219). Though this was not a decisive prohibition, those of strong faith managed to give up drinking alcohol. Then, ‘Umar bin Al-Khattâb (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “O Allah give us a decisive ruling regarding alcohol”. Then, this verse was revealed: “O you who believe! Approach not the prayer when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter.” (4:43) Afterwards, Muslims continued drinking alcohol and only avoided it at the times they apprehended that the effect of intoxication would last till the time of prayer. Then, ‘Umar bin Al-Khattâb said: “O Allah give us a decisive ruling regarding alcohol”. Then these two verses were revealed: “O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al-Ansâb, and Al-Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitân’s (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful. Shaitân (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allâh and from As-Salât (the prayer). So, will you not then abstain?” (5:90) Upon listening to these two verses, ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “We have abstained.”

        The aim of gradual legislation was to purify the Muslim Nation from all bad traditions and abominable habits that opposed the law of Allah and to perfect the Muslims with the virtues of forgiveness, patience, selflessness, love, trust, kind treatment of the neighbours, justice and many other good qualities.

        Allah [exalted and glorified be He] is the sole Legislator for His servants. He said: “The decision is only for Allâh, He declares the truth, and He is the Best of judges.” (6:57) He only legislates that which benefits people and brings about goodness and happiness in this world and in the Hereafter, regardless of whether the wisdom behind the legislation is perceived or not.

        The Noble Qur’an is the first source for legislation, while the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) is the second source. Muslim scholars unanimously agreed on the authority of the Sunnah as a source of legislation beside the Noble Qur’an. Allah the Almighty said: “O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad (peace be upon him) and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (peace be upon him), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination).” (4:59). In another verse Allah [exalted and glorified be He] said: “With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) the Dhikr (reminder and the advice (i.e. the Qur’ân)] that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.” (16:44). In a third place He [exalted and glorified be He] said: “And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (peace be upon him)) gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it). And fear Allâh; verily, Allâh is Severe in punishment.” (59:7)

        In his book called I‘lâm Al-Muwaqi‘în ‘An Rabel-‘Âlamîn [i.e. Informing those who give Fatwas on behalf of the Lord of the worlds of the danger of their position] volume II, p.263, Imâm Ibn Qiyim Al-Jawziyah defines the position of the Sunnah with regard to the Noble Qur’an saying: “The position of the Sunnah with respect to the Noble Qur’an is of three aspects. The first one is to be in accordance with the Noble Qur’an in all aspects and as a result the existence of the Sunnah with the Noble Qur’an in one issue will be of a reinforcing nature regarding the rulings. The second aspect is to be an explanation and manifestation of the rulings included in the Noble Qur’an. The third aspect of the position of the Sunnah to the Noble Qur’an is to clarify the obligations about which the Noble Qur’an kept silent and manifest the prohibitions, which are not explained in the Noble Qur’an. Bearing all this in mind, we can say that there is no contradiction between the Noble Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him), rather they complement each other.

        Therefore, the role of the Sunnah is to emphasize the rulings of the Noble Qur’an, explain the texts thereof, expound the abridged, or initiate a ruling that is not mentioned in the Book of Allah. In spite of the important position of the Sunnah, we do not turn to the Sunnah for legislation, except when the ruling is not found in the Noble Qur’an. It is the Sunnah which explains to us that the number of prayers is five times a day; explains the number of Rak‘as in every prayer; defines the essence of the alms giving; defines who is obliged to perform it, and the shares thereof. It is the Sunnah that shows us the way of performing Hajj and ‘Umrah, and that the obligatory Hajj is once in one’s lifetime. It is the Sunnah which shows the Miqâts for Hajj and determines the number of times that Tawâf around the Ka‘bah should be performed.

        Thus, it is the duty of everyone believing in the authority of the Noble Qur’an but renouncing the Sunnah to hasten to renew his faith and to return to Allah the Almighty. Allah said: “And verily, I am indeed forgiving to him who repents, believes (in My Oneness, and associates none in worship with Me) and does righteous deeds, and then remains constant in doing them, (till his death).” (20:82)

        Both of the Noble Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) are revelations from Allah to His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him). They are the two sources of legislation, which have guided man to his innate nature and made of him a human being who knows his real role in life, repeating this verse all the time: “All praise and thanks be to Allâh, Who has guided us to this, and never could we have found guidance, were it not that Allâh had guided us!” (7:43)

        May the blessings and peace of Allah be upon our Prophet Muhammad, upon his family and upon his honourable companions (may Allah be pleased with them all)

  193. bigstick

    Abujubair, here are some more pearls of wisdom from Muhammad (pbuh).

    SB 56:784 ” The Prophet used to stand by a date-palm on Friday. Then an Ansari man said ” Oh Allah’s Apostle! Shall we make a pulpit for you? He replied, “If you wish.” The next Friday, he delivered the sermon from the pulpit. The date-palm cried like a child! The Prophet said, ” It was crying for missing religious knowledge given near to it.” Got some special trees there, this is happening all the time. Recently had a noise ordinance in place so you must go out and read religion to the date-palm tree. SB58:188 “During the pre-Islamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning her, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse.” You have no idea how many times I want my kids to see a female she-monkey at the zoo but alas it had been stoned. But wait there are some health benefits that doctors can learn here, SB 71:673 “If a fly falls in the vessel, dip all of it into the vessel and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing antidote for it.” SB 71:663 “Eating dates will protect you from poison and magic all day long.” SB71:641 ” The earth of our land and the saliva of some of us cure our patient.” SB 71:619 “Fever is from the heat of Hell, so put it out with water.” Wait, medical science needs to get in on this one, SM23:5113 “A Non-muslim eats in seven intestines where as a Muslim eats in one intestine.” This list of medical knowledge is astounding. I can’t image why the middle eastern countries have lower life spans with such stellar medical advice. But wait there is more. How people change into animals, SB 54:524 “The Prophet said, ” A group of Israelites were lost. Nobody knows what they did. But they were cursed and changed into rats.”: JK Rowlings book, Harry Potter has got nothing on Islam. SB 5:277 ” The prophet said, Once Moses went out to take a bath and put his clothes over a stone and then the stone ran away with his clothes. Moses followed that stone saying, ” My clothes, O stone! My clothes, O stone! till the people of Bani Israel saw him and said, “By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body.” Moses took his clothes and began to beat the stone.” Must be why they call the rolling stones today as they were beaten for running. Hey but the Torah and the Bible have been changed because of the man made meddling. The trusted and sacred hadith that expands upon the understanding of the quran. The book “Quran” that is both complete but incomplete. The book that needs no interpretation but yet needs to be interpreted. Where clearly an instruction is given but wait oops, forgot it. I’ll abrogated it with something better. Where it can be recited in seven differ ways but somehow that does change the meaning. Where a word can have 30 different meanings but my way is correct. You got missing verses, lashing /stoning? Satanic verses. Magically verses. I hear Sura 113 and 114 was specially written for Muhammad being placed under dark magic. The text of the Quran has numerous words that are considered of foreign origin in the Quran. Apparently al-Suyuti states that there are 107 but Arthur Jeffery finds 275. After Uthman got all the different versions of the text of the Quran together He had probems with the consonantal text as there were no dots allowing for various readings. Eventually under Quranic scholar Ibn Mujahid (CE 935) it was finally canonized of one system of consonants. I have got to pause here and say, Wow. So many different ways to read the Quran so many variations that could never have been tampered with by men. Yeah right. If thats not bad enough you thrown in the hadith to help in day to day life that many people say was written by people who hated Islam so much that they wrote millions of hadith to corrupt it even further. But wait the Bible and the Torah shouldn’t be followed because they have been corrupted by man. Glass houses.

  194. bigstick

    Blah, blah, blah, blah. Picture this. A large dam hundreds of feet across and several hundred feet high. Islam is the dam. On one side raging is the river of information known to all about the history of the quran and hadith. It weaknesses and absurtities. On the other side, trying to keep out the raging river a small but turbulent amount of water. The turbulents are the people who know what the other side of the dam knows. There is a crack in the dam and you rush out to plug it with your finger. Frantically, you get more people to come up with the stupidest crap to stop the flood, ie extremely restrictive rules for women. But the crack is already there and people know about it. The people come and watch what can only be called a circus act. Juggling this and that trying to patch the leaks to no avail. The turbulance behind them is growing as water is seeping under the dam which cannot be stopped. All of a sudden the dam breaks taking all of those who stood in the way of the waters are gone. Through out history countries who have been this oppressive have fallen because the human spirit will only take so much before it snaps. Even an animal is born with a free spirit and a certain level of dignity you can only beat, neglect, or abuse an animal so much before it will strike. You are using the Quran and the hadith in a way that is abusive, damaging, and degrading. Saudi is using the Quran/Hadith as the whip to the slave and even a slave will turn on it’s master after so much abuse. You don’t care one fig about women. All of your talk is about keeping power and hiding atrocities. In fact, much of what you have stated to Sandy shows you actually hate, loathe and despise women. Saudi is very well known for beating girls back into a burning building for not wearing their head gear and they died. What is sad is muslims across the world for the most part can’t believe the insanity of Saudi’s version of Islam. It should be interesting to see how things unfold in the future. I think Saudi is going to be a societial experiment in physics as it pushes further to the extremes. It is called the pendulum motion.

    • abujubair

      Understand one thing, the rulers are from the people and he(they) similar to them because he(they) is from them. So when people complain about the rulers who do they expect to govern, someone from Mars. Revolutions are not from Islaam, rather they are from the ways of kuffar(Engels,Carrell, etc..). This revolutionary idealism is what educated the like of Sayyid Qutb,Hasan Al-Banna, they mixed Islaam with socialist ideas of Government overthrow, and Bin Laden was mentored from Ayyman Zawahiri, and we have 911, bombing in Kenya, etc. The Saudi Government is fully capable of tackling extremism, even if it comes through the guise of women, it is their sworn duty to keep that society Islaamic, the same way it is YOUR duty (BIGSTICK)duty to protect you mother, kids, or relatives. And they and will serve and protect that/this society from harm. We know that you all are trying to incite the public against their leaders, we know this.
      The West is not even satisfied with their own leaders, let alone ours.

    • abujubair

      And don’t use that corrupt example going on in misguided Egypt as a catalyst for change, or some fool who sets himself on fire. Here’s an interesting link for your on the issues of oppressive rulers and seeking change….–shariyyy-hukm-the-egyptian-uprising-and-the-islamic-awakening-qutbi-kindergarten.cfm

  195. bigstick

    In the west you can elect them out. Big difference. Not even comparable. Your govenment is not capable of tackling extremism it is the extremism.

    • abujubair

      Yeah you vote him and then elect another liar from your progeny. You missed the point, THE RULER IS FROM THE PEOPLE SO HE IS “SIMILAR TO THEM”, there is very little difference(education, socio-eco status). I am from America; Philadelphia to be exact, you all are never satisfied with your Mayor, Governors, or Presidents. This is the same with Europe, never satisfied. Perfection is only with the creator and his legislation, Democracy is man-made, secularism is man-made so therefore prone to constant error.You people make laws, change them, make laws change them etc.. While the creator know what is best fro his creation.
      And the more astray mankind is from their lord the more deviation mankind will be prone to(as we see) Islaam is divine (perfect), but the human do make mistakes in it’s implementation of it. One system(Democracy) is habitually flawed, and devoid of blessings. The other is divinely guided. You people don’t even want the Old/New Testament to rule over you, you all would choose Man over his creator any day, even if it was Christianity or Judaism.
      TALK LATER….

  196. bigstick

    Oh now that is rich, are you still in the US? Then let’s talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Democracy vs. Allah’s divine law. I make a divine law no wait I’ll change it (abrogated), I make another divine law no wait I’ll change it again. Oh, I forgot I’ll make up something new on the fly to replace it. Divine dementia. The creator who couldn’t keep his story straight, kept forgeting, changed on a whim. Whose Prophet commits shirk, the three daughters of Allah. Again, Glass houses and TOTAL HYPOCRISY YOUR PART.

    • abujubair

      Well the christian believe that when Jesus (supposedly) died on the cross, his blood freed them from the Old Laws, that why they eat pork, celebrate Christmas (curse in the old testament). And the qur’aan abrogated the Old and New Testaments.
      As i already sent you, some verses were abrogated due to the gradual increase in the faith of the first generation. EXAMPLE.Initially they were allowed to continue drinking, then they were told not pray drunk(abrogated 1st verse), then intoxicants of all types was made forbidden my the final verse on this issue(abrogated 2nd verse). It’s called cultivation, it’s called knowing your creation, as he is the creator.

  197. bigstick

    So you live in the USA. Have you ever been to Saudi Arabia?

    • abujubair

      Born and raised in the U.S.A., Never been to Saudi before but various brothers from our community have studied and also commute between there and Yemen, plus the scholars from Saudi administer tele-linked live lessons to our Masjid covering various topics on a regular basis.
      Understand I do not hate women, I have a mother, sisters, wife, daughters, and aunts.
      I just whole heatedly believe that the creator has given women their rights, and those rights are similar to that of the man. Men and women are in no way equal so they don’t deserve equality,
      Could Saudi do better, yes; and so could all of the Muslims. The problem is that the West is judging Islaam and the Muslims by their culture, and what you all think is right.
      And the thing is that you don’t want us to actually practice Islaam wholeheartedly because you all hate it (we know this). If we practice in Islaam in totality you will still hate us, and if we fall short, you call us hypocrites.There is no pleasing your types at all. And Allah told us that you all (kuffar) will never be pleased with us until yall are able to turn us back from our deen.
      This your goal, to have a wide open Saudi Arabia, liquor being sold(legally), open elections, women clothed but naked, women walking the streets with panties, and titty shirts on, bastard children resulted from illicit relations, homosexuals catch HPV in their anuses, hypocrites, people of desires, all sort of hedonism. This is what you want.
      Well the example of that has preceded us already; the West. And how their European forefathers fled from religion, and then claimed that they found/discovered a country that was already inhabited.
      And those Muslims who embrace Islaam after being Christian, Secular, Atheist, tend to be stronged(at times) then those born into Islaam because we recognize disbelief. So you can’t fool us, because we come from where you all are coming from and recognize falsehood when we see it..!!!

      • Monica

        That’s incredible! You live in USA! In the West!!! In my country we say: “who bites the hand that feeds him is not an intelligent person”. I’d like to know if you apply your rules in your personal life, over there in America.. let me know.. do you control your wife and your daughters in every moment of their life? Do you forbit your wife and your daughters to drive? To go out alone in those “dangerous” streets? Do you forbit your daughters to merry a no-muslim man? I’m agree with Bigstick: you’re just an hypocrite! Anyway you’re a lucky man: you live in the west, where people like you, can work and live with their own opinions. I wouldn’t have the same possibility in the Saudi Arabia and countries like that, right? Can you see the difference?

      • abujubair

        Monica, We practice our deen in America to the best of our abilities. I am married, my wife and daughter wears correct hijaab; faces covered, my wife works (as islaam allows), her job is conducive to our Islaamic lifestyles, my daughter is in college(no usurious loans, we pay out of pocket), we home school our youngest son to protect him from too much secularism, and we educate him on Islaam and falsehood(as Islaam teaches good and evil), my wife does drive because she is allowed to drive in this country.
        We do govern each other by Islaam(as Islaam calls for), so we all control each other, i tend to be more expressive, because men have more of a protective nature. My daughter is engaged to be married to a muslim man, islaam does not allow muslim women to marry non-muslims, and the men can only marry chaste, virgin women who are religious christian or jews(very few of them nowadays) she knows that Allah comes first, then her future household, then school, or anything from the outside(it’s called priorities, islaam first). She studying to become an pediatric eye doctor, as it is permissible for women to work in various aspects of the medical field, especially with children.
        There is no such thing as luck, luck doesn’t control fate, Allah does; we play a small role in fate. I don’t voice my opinions against anyone/thing except whatever/whoever opposes Islaam. I live in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and we have a long history of Islaam in this city (over 60 years), there are ten-of thousands of Muslims walking through this city on any given day. When the Arabs come over for business or school they are shocked to our steadfastness in this bastion of evil called America.
        We regularly have scholars come visit and stay with us from Saudi, Egypt, Kuwait, and Yemen.



        ALLAH SAYS IN THE QUR’AAN, “They(disbelievers,kuffar) will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls. Their violence among themselves is severe. You think they are together, but their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a people who do not reason.” 59(14).

  198. bigstick


    Having equal opportunity, equal autonomy, and equal education does not mean making the gender the same. The only superiority that men have for the most part (I say this because I have seen some women out do some men) is upper body strength. Women are extremely capable and equally intelligent as men. Women are not created to serve men. Women are meant to be their partners, friends, companions and helpers. Men are meant to be the same. In fact, each person contributes half of the chromosomes to make a child. They are two halves of a whole. They are no less or no more emotional than men. They have just been taught to apply their emotions in a different way. Crying for example creates a situation in which men come to assist. Men hit walls or have bouts of angry often times to demonstrate their emotions. Women and men are conditioned by culturally norms as to how those emotions will be exhibited. When a boy starts to cry and his father scolds him because boys don’t cry, then he finds another way to release his emotions. Girls on the other hand are not told this so they don’t bother to find another outlet. When you study that women are nothing more than sexual objects for the lusting of men then that is what they become. I remember when a notable imam in Australia stated that teenager girls should expect to be raped because they were not islamically (properly) covered and then compared them to meat. The fact is that once you have a belief that a women is a piece of meat (covered islamically or not) then no amount of clothing changes her status. She is just a piece of meat. A piece of cloth makes no one pious or closer to Allah/God. What is sad is when that piece of cloth is worth more than the person that it covers. Quite frankly, people in the west for the most part don’t care how others live in their countries. It is when human dignity and natural human rights are taken away that bothers the west. When women are reaching out saying I don’t want this and yet she can’t leave the situation is when people of the west want to reach out. To people of the west this is imprisonment and slavery. What the west doesn’t want is extreme fanatical islam in their borders. Women and many men fought extremely hard for the rights justly given to women and they don’t want them taken away. Do you really think your mother, wife, and daughters are less intelligent, less religious and less deserving than you? I personally don’t think they are. I will tell you again and it has been proven that when women are allowed to fully participate in society that society gains in all areas. What many in the west want for women and yes even men in the Saudi Arabia is all the best in the world. We want them to have their dignity, mobility and self worth. The best protector is the one who ensures that the protected can one day protect themselves.

  199. bigstick


    I am done blogging with you:

    Now I have gone to the extremes in pointing out problems in your presentation of Islam but I will tell you that I want nothing to do with your view of this religion for myself, family, friends or heck if I had enemies not even for them. Every religion has its good and bad. The thing is a good man can pick up a holy book and do good with it and a bad man can do bad things with it. Both will claim they did it in the name of the Creator. My view is that one thing God/Allah did was to created both good and evil. I find it interesting that in all of the holy books; there are those things that are without a doubt righteous and other that are quite frankly not. All people were given intelligence and a choice. I know my choice. I will tell you from what you wrote that you appear to have been taught how to hate and enslave. You sound like you are full of angry, looking for conspiracies that don’t exist except maybe with those you associate with, and your are paranoid. I would not want your life it sounds miserable. Every religion has its atrocities, its inhumanity, its slavery, and its injustice. Islam is no different. With all your narration on trying to convince so many others that your version of Islam is the true and only one, I have come to wonder if it is others you are trying to convince or yourself. For me words are hollow when spirituality does not exist. Now I wish you all the best. I hope one day your see more of the good side to humanity than the base or bad side. May you find some peace and happiness in your endeavors.

    • Bigstick said: “The thing is a good man can pick up a holy book and do good with it and a bad man can do bad things with it.”

      And perverted men will do perverted things with it. Unfortunately there is a sub-group of men in the Islamic world that do see women as objects/property and they sexualize EVERYTHING to do with it. It sort of make my skin crawl the degree to which these guys obsess about women and their sexuality to the point that an inordinate amount of time is spent on trying to control, subdue and own it. If you look at times when the Islamic world, or any other culture for that matter, was more productive- they were not so obsessed with it and they were more balanced.

      • abujubair

        A Sandy those time you are referring to is the pristine period, the period of the first three generations (salaf), this is time when the religion was pure, no Shi’ite, Sufism, no Ikhawaani Muslimoon(muslim brotherhood, no ahmadiyya’s(who are actually kuffar), No Al-Qaeda no splitting, no different view, just one correct view on everything. But Allah’s messenger warned us that after the last of three generation they will be those who differ from his sunnah and the sunnah of his companions, he warned of 73 groups that the Muslims will split into, 72 of them deviant. And told what to do during theses times; stick to his sunnah and the sunnah of his rightly guided successors, and cling to it with your molar teeth.
        When the messenger of Allah Muhammad was sent it was approximately 500+ years after the last revelation that was sent to Eesa(Jesus), and the state of the people was horrendous; shirk(polytheism), son would inherit their fathers wives after their fathers dies, illegal business transactions, usury, unrestricted polygyny(yes poly-gynee), wide spread rape, murder, and use of intoxicants. When Allah revealed the qur’aan to Muhammad the people were at their worst.
        Well here we are 1433 YEARS after revelation, we have all these groups that call their versions, “Islaam”, but when you look to the criteria by which “everything” is judged(qur’aan and sunnah) you don’t find that the Messenger taught their “ideas” to the companions; “at all”. So the further we get from revelation, the more people adopt, “ideas” and “thoughts” the more destructive mankind will be to itself. The women too…!!!!
        There was time during Islaamic history(and some now) that the women heard and obeyed “whatever” came from Allah and his messenger. They covered every part of their beauty, and only came out of their houses for a “benefit”, if the women heard a hadeeth(narration from the messenger), they never asked,”Is it obligatory, do we have to do it”.
        The women of the past also were not shy when it came to asking personal questions; even about menstruation. And they, the female companions never second guess their rules, and they would approach the rulers face to face, a not hide and slander and join forces with the kuffar.
        We are not obsessed with women, we want to stay away from them as much as possible, the women want to enter into realm of danger, while being naive(some of them) of the dangers in mixing with men.
        The Prophet (Sallallahu ‘Alaihi Wa Sallam) said,

        “I did not leave behind any Fitnah (evil trial or temptation) that is more harmful to the men than the women.”(Sahih Bukhari) So i guess he was “OBSESSED” with women to huh, Sandeee?? And we warned about ALL WOMEN, EVEN THOSE IN HIS IN TIME, WHO WERE THE BEST OF GENERATIONS, SO WHAT ABOUT NOW, 1433 YEARS AFTER REVELATION, WHO ARE WE IN CONTRAST TO THEM??? Sandy, you HAVE to stop talking about Islaam, PERIOD.!!! HE SAID MORE HARMFUL TO THE “MEN”.

      • abujubair

        AND WHAT ABOUT PROPHET YUSUF(JOSEPH) WHO WAS TEMPTED BY WIFE OF AL-AZEEZ. HIS WIFE; AL-AZEEZ WAS DRUNK OFF OF YUSUF’S BEAUTY(AS HE WAS HE WAS A VERY HANDSOME MAN). ALL NARRATES IN THE QUR’AAN SAYING, ” He said, “My Lord, prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me. And if You do not avert from me their plan, I might incline toward them and [thus] be of the ignorant.”(YUSUF:33)



        AND ALLAH RESPONDED TO HIS PRAYER BY SAYING, “So his Lord responded to him and averted from him their plan. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Knowing. (YUSUF:34), AND YUSUF WAS PROPHET THAT WAS SENT TO THE JEWS.
        AND ONE OF THE BEAUTIFUL THINGS ABOUT THIS SURAH IS THAT ALLAH SAID IN THE BEGINNING, “We relate to you, [O Muhammad], the best of stories in what We have revealed to you of this Qur’an although you were, before it, among the unaware.(YUSUF:3)


      • abujubair

        A SANDY, YOUR LORD ALLAH SAYS IN SURAH RA’D (13), “Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron.”


  200. bigstick

    True. Whether he knows it or not his view on women is skewed. He has been taught that women are sex objects and must be separated from society for the good of the men. As he puts it women are given beauty by the devil to tempt men, they are less intelligent, less religious, and extremely emotional. All of which is not true. His assessment debases and insults both men and women.

    These views are often shared by the taliban. He should be careful on what he wants for the future society for he may delivery his family into the depths of hell.

    • abujubair

      I told you that Allah created women with varying types of beauty, and created in the men the desire for this beauty.However Muslims are instructed to place choose a spouse based off religion conviction, but this does not mean that women are not to kept apart from men; apart from men that is, not confined. Even if you look a Allah’s Prophet Joseph when he was tempted by the wife of AL-Azeez, he called out to his lord with a supplication, saying, “My Lord, prison is more to my liking than that to which they invite me. And if You do not avert from me their plan, I might incline toward them and [thus] be of the ignorant.”(surah Yusuf:33).
      And this is one Allah’s messengers who felt weak, so he called on his lord, and Allah said,”So his Lord responded to him and averted from him their plan. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Knowing.”(Yusuf:34)

      The devil does not create anything, not even beauty(Allah creates), but it is the job of shaytaan(the devil) to tempt mankind in anyway he can, in an attempt to avert mankind from the remembrance and obedience to Allah. And one of tools he uses is the beauty women. And our messenger Muhammad warned the men about the women in an authentic hadeeth where he said, “I have not left behind me any fitnah (temptation) more harmful to men than women.”(Sahih Bukhari) And Allah allowed him to say this about his (Allah’s) creation. So I guess you are gonna now say that the Messenger was from the TALIBAN; who are group of deviants that were not even present during his time.
      I tried to explain to you some fundamental aspects of our deen by using our deen(not from emotions, or whims), and Allah has not willed guidance for you as of yet; (MAY ALLAH GUIDE YOU). If I catch you on here slandering this deen, I will reply, and refute you, and sit you down.

  201. @Monica,
    I find it interesting that one of the posters here feels that it is wrong to challenge leadership and violate the law- since he has already admitted to living against the law by practicing polygamy. This is sadly one of the archtype converts that we have- and it seems they all were really lost as non-Muslims and so they assume that all western non-Muslims are as degenerate as they once were- but of course, again, that is their usual sex obsession. They are also masters of drawing the wrong conclustion having, apparently few critical thinking or logic skills. They state a fact “x” and they conclude therefore “y” when that is not necessarily the case at all. But they already know what they want to prove so they just interpret and use what supports them and ignore anything else. They feel really good and superior by having a long list of things they are doing “right” that all the degenerate other folks are doing “wrong” when some of what is on their list comes from a tribal agenda- and half of the “wrong” stuff they think everyone else is doing isn’t even happening. But truth is less important that beeing “right” and feeling superior. And with some I wonder if there are some mental health issues as well.

    • abujubair

      Shaikh al-‘Uthaimeen (rahimahullaah) said:
      Another principle wherein there is disagreement between Ahlus-Sunnah(people of sunnah) and Ahlul-Bid’ah(the people who want to bring to methodologies to islaam) is rebellion against the leaders. The Harooriyah, Khawaarij, rebelled against the Muslim leader. And they made takfeer upon him and fought against him. Consequently, they allowed the spilling of the blood of the Muslims. As for Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama’ah, they say that they are obliged to listen and obey the ruler even if he were to do great, defiant sins, as long as they are not clear and explicit Kufr (disbelief).
      We fight against him in this case, provided that the battle doesn’t bring about any evil.

      The Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) prohibited rebellion against the rulers if the following conditions are not met. He (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: Except if you see a clear and explicit disbelief of which you have proof from Allaah.

      There are four conditions [mentioned in this hadeeth of the Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)].

      1: If you see ——> That is with your own eyes – or know – disbelief. And not merely a defiant sin, even if one were to see him fall into fornication (zina), steal, or kill somebody without due right – without (Istihlal) believing it to be halal. He is not a disbeliever in this case. He is a defiant sinner whom we are not allowed to revolt against.

      2: The Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: Kufr (Kufran)

      3: Clear and Explicit (BawaHan) —–> That is an undisputable Kufr which cannot be understood in a different way [other than Kufr]. If one were to be able to understand it in a different way, then we’re neither doing takfeer on him nor revolting against him.

      4: Of which you have proof from Allaah —–> That is, that the clear and explicit disbelief we have seen is not understood by way of comparisons and the likes, rather through clear and explicit evidences from the Qur`an and the Sunnah.

      These are four conditions.

      5: There is a fifth condition which has its basis in other evidences, namely the ability to remove the disbelieving ruler who blasphemed with clear and explicit disbelief (kufr) of which we have proof from Allaah. We should accordingly possess the ability [to remove him]. If we do not have the ability (Qudra), then the evil we want to eradicate will only become greater than what it currently is. One should instead mend the situation in another way as well as one can.

      Thus, some brothers, who possess Islaamic vigilance and religiosity, are erring when they revolt against their rulers.

      Allaah is wise. It is He Who bestows upon some of the unrighteous ones power over the others. Do not think that if some rulers expose others to injustice or aggression that it is occurring just because Allaah wants it to be like that. No, it happens due to wisdom [as well].

      Allaah said: And thus We do make the wrongdoers allies one to another for what they used to earn. (An’aam, ayah 129)

      The rulers only attack the citizens because of the citizens themselves: “As you are, you will be ruled over.” Some people who try to revolt against their rulers – even if it be by way of force – are doing wrong.

      First and foremost, we have to have knowledge of what the rulers really have done. One cannot merely base himself on rumors. We’ve heard a lot of rumors about the rulers and others which were proven to be baseless.

      That’s why it comes in the hadeeth: Except if you see clear and explicit disbelief.

      Secondly, if we truly see this with our eyes or find out about it from many reliable sources, we then have to confront it by way of the Qur`an and the Sunnah to see if it (truly) is disbelief, or a sin.

      If we believe that it is disbelief, we have to see if we have a proof of it from Allaah. Is it clear and explicit disbelief which cannot be understood in a different way? Is it disbelief while the doer of it is excused due to misunderstanding? Thus, it has to be clear and explicit, which cannot be misunderstood.

      In addition, we have to have a definite and clear proof of it from Allaah.

      The Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) was the one who set these conditions for rebellion against the leaders – which can be understood as difficult by some – just because the revolt brings about greater disadvantage than the current disadvantage.

      You see the [results] of the revolts. Are the people happier after the revolts than they were before them? Never! Quite the opposite. We do not need to point out a specific country because this is clear and explicit.

      We advise the Muslims not to be in a hurry in regards to these matters. If they get a ruler who attacks them, they should then ask Allaah to guide him, and spare them from him, and stay patient.

      The Prophet (salallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: If anyone of you sees something hateful from his leader [ruler], he should be patient, for whoever becomes separate from the Jama’ah even for a span (the width of a human hand) and then dies, he will die as those who died in Jaahiliyah (Pre-Islaamic Period of Ignorance).

      One has to be patient and advise.
      This is also one of the important principles wherein Ahlul-Bid’ah differ from Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama’ah. You find how they revolt against the leaders and how the consequences only turn out to be worse. What is it that has split the Ummah after they [the Khawaarij] rebelled against ‘Uthman (radiallaahu ‘anhu) – if not this?

    • abujubair


  202. Monica

    To Sandy: Yes, I absolutely agree with you. I think the focal point of the whole issue is “the BODY of women” and his contour line: pople like abujubair go on to think that our body brings chaos and causes corruption, therefore, in their opinion, our body must be covered and hidden! This is a non-sense but they think it’s a true thing, and they find proof and evidence of their religious beliefs in old and musty books, written by PEOPLE (not God, people like us!!!) hundreds years ago!
    Aliia Magda Elmahdy is an Egyptian blogger: she’s an atheistic. In her blog she posted some nude pics of her. Those pics are a shout against a violent, racist and sexist society, like the Egyptian one. Her choice could be misunderstood. Her gesture is not exhibition or ostentation, but a provocation to move the consciences. The Aliia’s rebellion is very brave and we must support her, particularly in the today’s Egypt, where Islamists and soldiers are trying to take possession of the power. In Egypt infibulation is a widespread habit and women are considered subordined to men. We must protect her. The nude of her young body has an explosive effect of reporting in Egypt. (to be honest, in the West the same pics would be the usual one-way nude and her message would stay unheeded). Anyway in the East and In the West we women must stay carefull and try to protect ourselves from abuse of men’s power.

    • AJ

      Monica says:
      “The Aliia’s rebellion is very brave and we must support her, particularly in the today’s Egypt, where Islamists and soldiers are trying to take possession of the power.”

      What nonsense! Until now, I was on your side against the preaching of Abujubair. But what you uttered is complete rubbish. So the only way, Aliaa can express her independence is by showing the two body appendages on top and the two orifices at the bottom? Is that all she has to offer? Why can’t she be a trader and be equal to men? Why can’t she be a pilot and fly a plane? Why isn’t she studying engineering to show she is as smart or smarter than men?

      Women like you who think that by shedding clothes, women attain equality to men DO NOT DO ANYTHING for women’s status in the society. If anything, you bring women’s status further down and prove to the world that women stay as physical objects as they were hundreds of years ago.


      • Monica

        To AJ: You were on my side as long as I tried to play an off limit card, I know. I didn’t say to share the Aliina’s choice. PersonaIly I’d never show what she posted in her blog. Probably I can’t explain the real essence of my thought so, let me use a famous quote by Voltaire who said “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”. Can you understand now?

    • abujubair





  203. @Monica,
    Aliia’s pictures are not going to get the kind of result that she wants from the people she is aiming them at. It seems exactly like exhibitionism and ostentation and likely will hinder, not help, moderates in Egypt. Even the most liberal of Muslims as myself will be unimpressed by blatant immodesty- as will nearly everyone in that more conservative society. So while it’s her blog and no one has to look if they don’t want to see it- and yes she has the right to post them- I do not see any need to support her for doing so, and I think it is not a wise choice on many levels.

    • Monica

      To Sandy: I suppose you’re right again, the result for Aliia ais not that’s she thought to get it. And probably her model of reporting doest’n help moderates.. I don’t wanna debate about this matter, ’cause I’m agree with you. But I’d like to point out that there isn’t any moderation without freedom to express and freedom to use all ways of expression. I don’t share her way, but I defend the freedom to use this way. She didn’t kill, hurt or insult anyone. She must be freedom to shout and cry in the way she prefers. anyway when you wrote “she has the right to post them” implicitly you recognize the same right of freedon which I’m talkning about. That’s reassuring for me 🙂

      • Yes I agree with that. She is probably desperate and thought it would somehow make her point. I just don’t think it will. But yes, she isn’t hurting anyone, except probably herself. It’s peoples choice to look and give it attention. I feel similarly about the Kardashians.

      • abujubair


        HIGHLIGHTING POINTS IN THE ARTICLE, “accidentally started having intimacy with a person. Whether at work or at church, wherever they’re hanging out, anything that increases those encounters increases the chance of infidelity.”
        “There is no doubt that the opportunity for infidelity has increased since large numbers of women came into the workplace.”
        Edward Laumann, a professor of sociology at the University of Chicago, suggests that technology is a ” Even with the best technology, he notes, to have an affair “you still have to be able to meet people in person.”


      • abujubair

        HIGHLIGHTING POINTS IN THE ARTICLE, “accidentally started having intimacy with a person. Whether at work or at church, wherever they’re hanging out, anything that increases those encounters increases the chance of infidelity.”
        “There is no doubt that the opportunity for infidelity has increased since large numbers of women came into the workplace.”
        Edward Laumann, a professor of sociology at the University of Chicago, suggests that technology is a ” Even with the best technology, he notes, to have an affair “you still have to be able to meet people in person.”


  204. bigstick

    Hi Aj:
    Checked out your website and for the most part I liked it. I do disagree with on a few points but all in all I like your point view. I support the young lady in Egypt but I don’t support how she went about calling attention to her cause. I can understand that she is a young women railing against the injustices of her country towards women and I appreciate her bravery in that manner. She is young and sometimes the young do things that aren’t always in their best interest. The political climate and attitudes are not at a level that is conducive to this type of display. Although, you may disagree with me and that is fine. I don’t find the naked body displayed as art to be immoral or in bad taste. There are numerous displays of art throughout history that show the naked body , Greeks, Romans, etc. My hope is that she remains safe and no harm comes to her.

    • AJ

      Bigstick thanks for liking my website. I don’t care if women cover themselves up or take all their clothes off. Its everyone’s choice to do whatever but I do take offense when women call shedding their clothes, as the one that recently happened in North Carolina, as some sort of liberation/equality movment/ rebellion against oppression for women. It brings us back to square one where we, women, are NOTHING but sources of physical satisfaction for men.

  205. Pingback: Women’s place in the society and a recent exchange « Musings of a Muslim Pak-American Mom in Riyadh

  206. bigstick


    First I don’t think Monica was stated that this was the best way to go for her but she understands her desire to shout out against tyranny. I think she understand the motive of the young lady. Men and women have made bad decisions in trying to confront injustices. I think what she is trying to say is that we should support the cause and the person. Just maybe not the action in this case. However, that said you must admit this when women shed their clothes it does bring attention to the cause. It does get people talking such as is the case right now. The question will remain as to whether this display will further erode the position of women or open doors to additional avenues for women in Egypt. I am not sure how that will pan out. It will be interesting to see. I do agree with you that this type of display can become tiring and an impediment though for women who are trying to prove that they are as capable as a man. Again, I hope for the best for this young woman.

    • Monica

      To Bigsstick: thank you very much for your act as mediator. You explained very well what I wanted to say. My english is not so good and sometimes I found very difficult to support my ideas in a foreign language so different from mine. Often, misunderstanding is just around the corner.. I hope AJ has better understood my position.

  207. AJ

    I just do not think that random men fantasizing about putting their stuff in my stuff does anything for my liberation or rights. Aliaa should try becoming the President of Egypt. Now thats what I call liberation. Sorry for going off but to equate overt objectification/sexualization of women = liberation of women is one of my pet peeves.

    • abujubair


      HIGHLIGHTING POINTS IN THE ARTICLE, “accidentally started having intimacy with a person. Whether at work or at church, wherever they’re hanging out, anything that increases those encounters increases the chance of infidelity.”
      “There is no doubt that the opportunity for infidelity has increased since large numbers of women came into the workplace.”
      Edward Laumann, a professor of sociology at the University of Chicago, suggests that technology is a ” Even with the best technology, he notes, to have an affair “you still have to be able to meet people in person.”


  208. bigstick

    Buthaina Kamel is running for President in Egypt. She might not have too much of a chance but lets hope she addresses the Egyptian issues in a manner that benefits all Egptian society and benefits the standing of women. This above all else will help to set the stage for future of women in the new society. However, I find that there is a trend where women are stating that they should get the constitution first and worry about their concerns later. This is absolutely the wrong way of thinking. You never ever give up your position and hope for the best later. You get want you can in the beginning and continue expanding for your rights later. Men will not give that power or position up once it is set into stone. They will put it off until they have no choice but to address it. Then it will take years and years before small incremental steps becomes one giant leap for women. They must ensure that women’s issues are addressed and placed into writing now while they have this opportunity. They must understand that many advancements are based upon seizing the opportunity when it is presented even in face of the opposition. If they do not they will be pay the price for their acquiences for decades to come.

    Here is an article on the first female candidate in Egypts history.

  209. abujubair


  210. AbuJubair – When you write in CAPS, it is considered yelling. Your ranting and raving diatribes are so boring and are such a turn-off. You are not convincing anyone here to your twisted and perverted point of view. I really feel sorry for your wife and daughter. Go away.

    • abujubair


    • abujubair


      • Where/how did I “praise” Ms. Makki? I clearly did not “praise” her. Did you even read what I wrote? My point is that if the newspapers in the ME are going to feature “news” stories about a Saudi woman who was speeding and running red lights (in another Muslim country because she is forbidden to drive in her own country), then they should also publish stories of Saudi men who have done the same things or worse when driving. The story was only news because she is a Saudi woman and the newspapers are trying to support the propaganda against females driving in KSA.
        I cannot understand half of the things you write because you leave out words or misuse words, and it’s annoying to read things that are in all caps. For example, saying that I “praised” her actions is incorrect, as I did not. And what exactly do you mean by “YOU PRAISE THIS FOR SAKE OF A MEETING.” What “meeting” are you talking about?
        I am very comfortable with my religious beliefs but I do not try to force my beliefs on others, as you do. The same with Ms Makki’s appearance – if she is comfortable presenting herself that way, it should not be a concern to you – she is certainly not dressed indecently.
        If you look back through the more than 100 excessively long comments you have written here in this one post, I think most people will agree that the one who is “nuts” is you, not me or Sandy or Monica or Bigstick. People like you are the reason non-Muslims are skeptical of Islam. You are not earning any points for Islam by what you have written here, which is sad – because you are having the exact opposite effect of what you are hoping to accomplish.

      • abujubair

        Susie, I apologize for accusing of praising the actions of the ignorant as I stated in my last post. If you look closely at what I post the majority of it comes from the qur’aan and sunnah, and the reasoning of the companions of Muhammad and our scholars. Ms. Makki was dressed indecent from the picture that I saw of her showing off her hair and face in public forum for all to see.
        The reason why comments are excessively long is I believe in Islaam and most of what is posted here is concerning what I believe in, this not a forum for calling muslims to Islaam so i don’t do that. This forum is about slandering the Muslims rulers, and our Holy Land.
        These people have entered into a domain that they know nothing about and some of them claim Islaam. but there ignorance opens up the door for Islaam to be attacked. Same way how Bin Laden open the doors for the kuffar to invade our lands.
        So I choose to defend Islaam when I see my brothers and sisters failing to do so, and then on top of that siding with the kuffar (disbelievers). You know full well that the kuffar attack our deen at every turn and it hurts me to see Muslims helping them in the name of feminism, and freedom.
        So you say that there is no good for calling people to Islaam, or clarifying Islaam to all, or even defending the religion, where is your proof for this statement.
        Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
        “And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, “Indeed, I am of the Muslims.” 41(33)

        Monica says that the qur’aan is written by men, Sandy lies on Abu Hurairah, and polygyny, and Bigstick is just lame. But all of them have something in common they attack what we believe in and we are not supposed to say anything, at all(like you have done)!!??? No jealousy, no zeal.
        You talk about my posts, o.k. tell me where I said something wrong against Islaam, correct me Islaamically. I mean when you tell a person that they are wrong, you show them the right way? And im not trying to please the people, my job on this blog is to clarify Islaam to our enemies, and the ignorant ones.
        As long as the angels(who record everyone’s deeds) record me refuting the falsehood on this blog, and where ever else it is written for me as good deeds, and as for those who read it, my posts have established the proof against them.
        Susie be careful of the information you overlook, the devil has proven that he can tell the truth, and even if a non-muslim approaches the Muslim with the truth that coincides with the qur’aan and sunnah we must accept it.
        So Susie be careful of arrogance(denying the truth when it comes to you), this how Shaytaan(the devil), was cursed. Look how many people accepted Islaam after 9/11, look how many qur’aan’s were sold, what im doing will not chase people away from islaam, as Allah says in 6(125),

        “So whoever Allah wants to guide – He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide – He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.” We don’t guide anyone, we are just sometimes the means.
        We hear of stories of misguided Muslim men (here in America) who were in illicit relationships with non-Muslim women where the man used her and treated her wrong, and she still accepted Islaam.!! Allah guides whom he wills no matter what.
        My comments are long because the accusations, and lies against Islaam are long. Recently during HAJJ (2011), King Abdullah and the Grand Mufti Aal- As Sheikh both spoke about the unity of the Muslims upon “qur’aan sunnah” and they warned us of our enemies, and don’t think that this deen, and the Muslims don’t have enemies read the qur’aan, in 5:(51) “O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people”

        and in 60(1), “O you who have believed, do not take My enemies and your enemies as allies, extending to them affection while they have disbelieved in what came to you of the truth, having driven out the Prophet and yourselves [only] because you believe in Allah , your Lord. If you have come out for jihad in My cause and seeking means to My approval, [take them not as friends]. You confide to them affection, but I am most knowing of what you have concealed and what you have declared. And whoever does it among you has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way.”
        So be careful my sista.You are in the sacred land where the classes are free and widespread, please go learn Islaam. It is free, don’t believe in something while having trivial knowledge of it, and don’t accept everything your husband says either. I say this because there is certain knowledge that every Muslim(male and female) must know, and watered down men sometimes keep their wives watered for fear of her being more knowledgeable than him, and this very, very common.

    • Hi Susie, I don’t think he will go away which is why I have stopped talking to him or reading most of his nonsense. I’ve noticed he has no problem bearing false witness about what I say and then arguing about how wrong I am about things I’ve never said, while yelling the whole time.

  211. abujubair


  212. bigstick

    Hi Susie:
    I have read your blog and you are definitely a voice of reason. I would like to state that Abujubair is born and raised in the good old USA and lives in the state of Pennsylvania. You can only imagine my concern for the west. My only hope is that this is just the ramblings of a mental deranged person. On a lighter note, I would like to say I have become a fan of your blog as well. By the way it doesn’t matter what you say he will find fault with it and ramble. Just try to ignore it. I beginning to think of him as a pesky fly at a picnic. No real substance but buzzes all around driving you nuts. Of course, I do love to take potshots at him any chance I get.

    • abujubair

      And Monica remember, I do believe in freedom, but not when it infringes on others people freedom, so freedom is from Islaam but in the manner prescribed by the creator of all; it has limitations. So when I tell you to choose between Western styled freedoms or hypocrisy, it is because this is your belief; that religion is written by men, and everyone should have man made freedoms. etc…
      The limited human mind is what defined freedom in democracy and decided what is good and what is bad in it according to what its desires and lusts imposed, which entails that freedom in democracy becomes limited at times and broadens at others, depending on what the decision makers feel is beneficial at the time.

      This means that the nations who practice such systems become experimental laboratories and are in a state constant flux regarding what is allowed and what is not. No stability.

  213. Monica

    the best of abujubair:
    1) ..and women driving increases the risk of infidelity, and notice how most americans attitude have hardened against extra-marital affairs, (ahahahah fantastic!!!)
    2) cnn reported in a study from two years ago that most illicit affairs take place in the workplace, where men and women mix (really? in which planet? Your pervert imagination has no borders)
    3) and your likes are trying to reduce men to nothing and put us on par with women, when the differences are overwhelming (uh uh uh caught him!!!! THIS IS THE FOCAL POINT, really, Mr Abujubair? This is your big fear? You are afraid to lose your power at home, uh? You’re afraid of comparison, aren’t you? I’t s petty of you!)
    You’re seriously insane.. Anyway reading what you think about Americans (and people from west like me in general) you are not worthy to live in US. Follow tha Susie’s suggestion: go away.. or have treatment before it’s too late.

    • abujubair

      Monica and company. First I bring you all qur’aan and sunnah(Islaam) even though Monica, and Bigstick aren’t Muslim to try to shed light on why the sexes are segregated in Islaam(including the lack of women driving), and to clear up any well-established rumors.
      As of yesterday I added to the qur’aan and sunnah studies that come from trusted non-Muslim sources, Most westerners agree upon and accept statistics, empirical data, and facts based on action research. You still don’t see the harm in men and women mixing.
      I even went as far as to give an example of Allah’s prophet Joseph(Yusuf) and the trial that befell him with women; I totally expected Sandy and Susie to accept that well known story (hadeeth) from the Qur’aan because they are Muslim.
      So I know that secularists such as Monica, and Bigstick accept secular, scholarly knowledge; because they criticize organized religion (especially Monica).
      The most astonishing thing of all is Monica and Susie, they claim to believe in that which they reject. Nor have they brought forth any credible evidence to say that I am wrong. And the verses that are being used here are of the most simplest of verses from the qur’aan to understand (the clear ones), im staying away from the ambiguous one for obvious reasons. You all got caught up in something; a quagmire, and though I was some simple minded Muslim who knows nothing about Islaam, Bigstick tried to come with various type of Swiss cheesed arguments that were full of holes and half cocked but his plot was stymied. You all fell into a realm that you cannot make sense of Muslim or not. Woww this is astonishing, you only go by your desires. This why Allah sent the Prophets and Messenger to protect mankind from ourselves.

      In Surah 23(72) Allah states clearly. “And if the truth had been in accordance with the people of desires, verily, the heavens and the earth, and whosoever is therein would have been corrupted! Nay, We(Allah) have brought them their reminder, but they turn away from their reminder.”

      Intellect is an creator given gift to mankind, it was never meant to put the intellect over the qur’aan and sunnah (Allah and his Messengers). This is the problem now throughout the world, people are using intellects over the creator and this is why we have so much deviance away from the will and commandments of the creator.
      Again, Toyota knows what is best for its cars(Toyota made it), would you take a Toyota to the Mercedes dealer to get it fixed. So how come the creation continues to “think”, that we know what is best fro ourselves while excluding our creator and master.

      • There is something seriously wrong with you, AbuJubair. You continue to jump to conclusions, put words in people’s mouths, and make assumptions about people – and you are wrong. I do not discuss my religious beliefs with anyone because I do not feel it is anyone else’s business. All I said was I was comfortable with my beliefs – does that mean I am of any particular faith? I also said that I don’t have a problem with the way a woman appeared in a photo and that I felt she wasn’t dressed indecently – so what religion does that make me? Don’t assume you know what I believe because you don’t – and you will never know because it is between me and my god. You should try it sometime. Khalas, Abujubair – enough already.

      • And one more thing – in my photo I am wearing black because that is what all women have to wear in Saudi Arabia, where I live. It does not mean anything religious – I am a victim of circumstance. I do not choose to wear black in the scorching heat – I am forced to by the culture.

      • abujubair

        Susie, I thought you were Muslim because of the apparent hijaab, but now you clarifying otherwise. Victim of circumstance; how bout obeying the laws of the land, as I have to do here in America, and every American must obey the laws of what ever country they visit. You are not forced, you are “free” to leave, you chose to come there.
        Susie. I am sure there some things/people that you will just defend to death that are dear to you, and you know the truth about these dear things why others slander. Thats all im doing here, these people lie on Allah and his messengers, and I have jealousy. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. But in islaam this is just one of the many forms of jihad.
        And you see these people are not asking legitimate questions trying to clear a doubt, they are attacking Islaam, and the Muslims, trying to make mockery.

    • abujubair

      Monica. Adultery is hated by more than 90% percent of Americans(Muslim, Jews, Christian, Atheists), the links that I sent to you all demonstrate the means which lead to adultery and fornication which is men and women having greater access to each other. So if you want to call me, and 90% of Americans perverted because we realize the obvious so be it.
      And again this is the one of the main reasons why Islaam has strictly limited the mixing of sexes.
      Adultery is in reality a major sin in all religions; it involves breaking a covenant between oneself and the creator, and your spouse, as well a violating a verbal contract which is also hypocrisy.
      Fornication is also a major in all major religions.
      So what is wrong with a people(white, black, Chinese, Muslim, Christian, Jews, Indians, etc..) who hate to fall into sin,(so they recognize what leads to sins, and cut that road off too.
      I thought you people believe in freedom to choose, freedom is only freedom if it agrees with your picture(s), if it something that does not agree with you all, you hate it. But I thought that freedom means the right to choose, this is evident hypocrisy.
      Saudi is obligated to uphold Qur’aan and Sunnah, it is their constitution; you know like the United States has a constitution. So according to you all Saudi has the right to choose what it thinks is best for it’s citizens and they choose Islaam, polygyny, segregation of sexes, women covered, beheading, floggings, etc…
      It’s their choice, now you have to choose from one of the two for yourself. (1)Let people be free, or(2) be hypocrite. You are free to choose.

  214. bigstick

    First, I would like offer an apology to the author of this blog Eman Al Nafjan for – well being one of those dominating bloggers on your site recently. However, that said I will probably continue to poke fun at my nemesis (Abujubair) until well you tell us to stop or throw us of your blog. However, I hope that you have been have some good laughs over this blog as I have. It is rare that you get to have this much fun with a person such as Abujubair. So few people offer themselves up for such comedy.

    My contribution to the comedy of Abujubair coming straight to you from SIN CITY ((in Texas draw) for yawl that don’t know – that is Las Vegas, Nevada)
    BUZZZ BUZZZ BUZZZ. Where is a fly swatter when you need one. BUZZZ BUZZZZZZ BUZZZZZ
    The five pillars of Abujubair:
    1. Sex (Don’t do it) But want to.
    2. Lust (All the time)
    3. Fornication (If only I could)
    4. Lusting for Sex
    5. Thinking of Sex while Lusting for fornication

    Abujubair on Islam: Sex, Fornication, Lust, Lust, Fornication, Sex, No! No! Its women. SEX, FORNICATION, LUST, GET THEM AWAY AND I AM WEAK AND DEFENSELESS. SEX FORNICATION, LUST.

    Philosophy of the World:
    A normal person’s view of the world : The world is my oyster. I shall venture out and live it.

    Abujubair’s view of the world: The world is a pu@@y. I must hide all that it is.

    A great comedian Robin Williams, stated: “God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time.”

    The brain of Abujubair has limited blood supply. SEX, FORNICATION, LUST.

    A brain on drugs (Visual Image) – (You see eggs frying)
    Abujubair on his version of Islam (Sex, Fornication, Lust) (Also Visual Image) (Women are walking in pants and t-shirts, men cowering in a corners.)

    A scene from Abujubair’s mind: Women walking freely in the world. Men running in fear. I AM WEAK – KEEP THEM AWAY. Women are too powerful and I am a weak sniveling version of a man. SEX, FORNICATION, LUST.

    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh (This is the National Emergency Service) AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    We are currently evacuating the downtown area of Pittsburg. A large GAS BAG has been release into the public domain. We are currently trying to shut it down. Please stay in your house until further notice.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    If you liked my comedic performance please sent donations to the organization PLEASE DON’T TERRORIZE MY BLOG SITE.

    • Very apt description. Sin City? Have you ever gone to a Trek convention there? That’s on my bucket list.

    • abujubair

      Bigstick you have reduced your self. As far proper/equal treatment of wives in Islaam than this is area that is broad. It depends on what the prospective wife wants (time, money, physical relations, rent, bills, etc) and what the seeking man can give her from what “she” wants(her choice again), and she can “choose” her own man as long as he is Muslim,( and there are millions, of millions and millions out there), even if he has no money, or he pays for everything from her tampons to her rent. So every marriage contract varies from the needs of the individuals who are seeking marriage.
      All islaam requires is that the man provide something, and protect her honor, chastity,and religion and when he does this she automatically will honor, and protect his.

  215. @Susie,
    It will never stop! All you clarified is it is none of his business and why yo are wearing black, again he thinks he knows what you believe. Anyway- his “how bout obeying the laws of the land, as I have to do here in America” is an outright lie- having two wives is absolutely against the law in America- and if one is a legal wife and the other is not, it is a gross inequality between them and therefore against Islam as well (besides which Muslims are not suppposed to violate the law).

    But never mind about all that. Read Bigsticks post just above. It sort of sums AJ all up.

    • abujubair

      America has made almost everything legal that the creator has made illegal. If homosexuals can marry by law, how they prevent a man from having two wives. Of course we can’t do it through their courts, but who are they to consider who is married and who is not. They allow prostitution in Las Vegas, Nevada.
      A marriage consist of a free woman who has decided to give herself to a man, some type of dowry, and witnesses, and this is in all major religions. Since when does the government interfere in religion when it is separated by democracy?
      None of the wives have to be on paper with these people and they cannot say that we are not married.
      The purpose of going through the courts to get married is for filing of taxes, death benefits, health insurance etc.(purely financial) Well a final will and testament takes care of all of that. Plenty people re-direct funds and benefits that would normally go to the spouse at death etc, to who they choose.
      We are not talking about bigamy which is marrying two women with two different marriage licenses. The Mormons(A christian cult) has a T.V. shoe called sister wives, where the man(not Muslim) has multiple wives, on T.V., and they have not locked him up yet. The key is not to have multiple marriage licenses open at one time.
      And who can stop a “free” woman from her consent to marrying a man who already has a wife. So these people are not the criteria in which things are judges, again they marry homosexuals and lesbians.
      They did not prosecute former President Bill Clinton for his adultery against Hillary Clinton, and Hilary knew nothing of the affair until it came to her, well why would prosecute a man who willing married a willing woman according to religion in a society that separates the two; no harm no foul.
      And what is a legal wife, again homosexuals; who is the wife in their case. The creator made marriage between man and woman, that is marriage. These people are confused over the definition of marriage.

    • abujubair

      Sandy, over a year ago the state of Utah (here in the U.S.) decided to investigate the polygynist(a man who has more than one wife, different from polygamy) and I sent you all the link confirming this, well a year later the Government has withdrawn it case, on the ground of no harm, no foul.
      Here is the latest link baby-girl.

  216. bigstick

    If he has two wives his is neglecting his duties. I say he is a man wanting two wives or they have thrown him out. Of course he could have rabbit tendency (censored) bam bam bam done. Maybe all he do is just about to bam and done.

  217. bigstick

    Yes, I have been to Las Vegas, NV during a trekker convention. It was fun. Lots of interesting people who like the whole sci-fy scene.

  218. abujubair

    Bigstick, the Messenger of Allah Muhammad did not even shake hands with women, Prophet Joseph would rather have stayed in jail than to commit fornication with a woman. So I guess you also include them in with me, and the rest of the men, Muslim men, Muslim women, psychologists, marriage counselors(male and female) who realize the reality of un-restricted male/female interaction; that when a woman walks in a room she attracts attention, even women recognize this. Are you gay?? No man denies this except that his wife is standing there(when being asked this question) or he is gay.!!

  219. bigstick

    Of course men look at women this way, moron. However ,most men have developed a frontal lobe that controls rational thought and responses. Apparently you have some brain damage. Admittedly I took a cheap shot earlier. Note: Not the comedy skit that was not cheap at all. According to you it is all right to violate that laws of the land if it benefits you. Islam states that you must treat you wives equally. You cannot do that when you marry one who will be legally recognized by law. She will receive medical benefits, social security in case of your death as well as her children, the list goes on. The second wife will not receive any benefits or recognition. In case of divorce she is completely left with nothing. You abuse the law and you abuse women in this manner. In other words, you are in violation of the teachings of the Quran. As far as polygmy in the FLDS group, you should noted that Jeff Warrens who was a community leader of one of these groups recently was sentenced to jail for a very long time. The women and children told of the psychological and emotional damage that this caused them. There was no protection in the marriage for them. In addition, if you are one of the people who supports there wives by claiming children without a father and the government picks up the tab. Then you are violating the law again. Again supposedly against Islam. Again we get back to the fact that everything you say about marriage is at the base, lowest level of humanity. Then you rail against US all the while telling other people not to rail against Saudi Arabia. A country that you have never even been too. You are an idiot. The fact is Saudi Arabia commits violations against both men and women in the name of Islam.

    • abujubair

      Frontal lobe? Please, you are just accustomed to, and like seeing half-nude women. Marrying equally would be not going through the courts at all; fair? or as I told you, a FINAL WILL AND TESTAMENT allocates your money to where ever, whoever you want it to go to. A will overrides all. So in the case that a man does marry a woman through the courts, and then does a ceremony that is solely religious, his will can split his estate between the two.
      Again these people(the U.S.) will marry those who the creator does not describe in the a legal/universal marriage contract; homosexuals and lesbians.
      Whether you go through the courts or not, a will overrides in all circumstances. How many men left their wives nothing, but gave it to charity, or their children. Im not praising those disbelieving Mormon’s just pointing out that polygyny is not a crime, unless other crimes or abuses are present.
      Who is the Government to come in-between two consenting adults, the same Government that uses women as weapons of war, in spying and espionage, knowing the woman is the perfect tool to blindside men..??
      And we only obey the laws of the land if they do not contradict our religion.

      As the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)said, “There is no obedience to a created being if it involves disobedience of the Creator” (reported by Ahmad, 1041; a saheeh hadeeth)

  220. bigstick

    In the eyes of the law within the US the second wife is a mistress, nothing more. So you have really cheapen her in this way and subjected her to public humilation as well if she come forward about your marriage. She cannot even claim herself married under any legal condition within the United States. If you were to get into an accident and you were not cognitive she could not even see you in the hospital as they will only admit family member that they can confirm. Thus humilating her even more. Do you want you mother, sister, daughter as a second, third or fourth wife? I want nothing like that for my family.

    • abujubair

      Again, the law of the US is not the end of all ends, it is not the criteria for the Muslims. We Muslims practice polygyny here and everywhere with willing women. Getting married through the state is for trivial means; their books. And again a will decides everything, if a man has two wives and a situation comes up where he is incoherent, the two wives work together under the Islaamic guidance to reach a just Islaamic solution. This is not about emotions, this why every Muslim is commanded to have a last will and testament.

      And again these people can’t say that A polygynous couple are not married.
      Marriage is a woman willing giving her self to man, for a dowry(gift), her being given away by a male family member, or guardian, and just witnesses.
      In the US you have the right to worship devil, so how can these people judge, how is the US a criteria for right and wrong. You even have simulated teen sex, and simulated rape(OF WOMEN) on the pornography sites and it is protected under, “FREE SPEECH”. (AND MEN WATCH THE MOST OF PORNOGRAPHY, SO MUCH FOR FRONTAL LOBES) Vile rap music where women are called bitches, violence against police is fantasized, but this is free speech. And she is only a mistress if the man treats her like one. In Islaam we are all considered family.

    • You’re absolutely right Bigstick, and there have been cases just like this where the legal wife excludes the “religious” wife. There are also cases of legal wife getting a good lawyer and overturning the will- as the second wife has no status and legally one set of children gets legitimacy etc. Which for some people is important- but maybe no one here cares.

      Personally I don’t much care what consenting adults do. It is their business and they will have to answer for it on the day of judgement. I do find it hypocritical to the extreme that someone would condemn Susie for not wanting to follow “the law” and wear a black scarf- simultaneously claiming that they are following US law, when in fact they are not. Islam has some serious things to say about lying and hypocrasy

      • abujubair

        Sandy. First: all the Muslim is to marry a wife who is religious;knows and practices her religion.
        Second: Two, three, or four wives who are religious and they fear their Lord and creator would not do that petty woman stuff that you mentioned. Hypocrisy would be to seek out more that what you husband allotted you in “his”, will. And that would be theft on her behalf.
        Susie has the right(Freedom) to leave Saudi if she don’t want to wear hijaab. why did she even go there, she knew would the results would be before she got there. I guess she is enslaved by her hardcore Arab/husband; you suggest??
        Third: you don’t have to go through their courts in order be considered married, again they cannot say that you are not married, and neither can you. These people make legal what Allah made illegal, so how are they a criteria, as we will see on the day of standing(judgement)??
        Allah says that creation and command belong to him, and he sanctioned polygyny. You probably don’t like polygyny either.
        Fourth: GO LEARN ISLAAM!!!
        Fifth: you have not brought any proof that polygyny is Illegal in America(in totality), all you brought was a few cases that are not even related to the Muslims, no RELIGIOUS WIFE(EVEN IF SHE IS THE ONE MARRIED FOR SAKE OF PAPERWORK THROUGH THE COURTS) would leave her sister in Islaam/co-wife out in the cold after sharing the same man for a period of time. Only A cunning, conniving, irreligious woman who hid her dissatisfaction with polygyny would do this after the death of her husband, that my dear is hypocrisy.

  221. bigstick

    Since you hate the west so much, can’t stand the laws here, hate the freedoms that it provides, dislike the people who live here, can’t stand the politicians that the American people put into office but apparently you did vote. Don’t like when American people critize there politicians but hey you can critize because apparently you never voted or participated in any political action. Then get out go away, go to Saudi Arabia like you want. Live the great big adventure of oppression. Have a field day with it. Good luck though, I hear it is pretty damn difficult to get into Saud. They tend to like there own. Maybe you could try UAE or Yemen. I am sure you will find the most base, oppressive, bigoted, hypocrits there as well. Where you are like minded in you miserable life. GO AWAY!!! GOOD R

    • @Bigstick,
      Please, we really don’t want or need people like that here. We have enough.

      • abujubair

        This is what Islaam says about polygyny…
        “…Even if it is your ardent desire”
        An Explanation of Sooratun-Nisaa’ (4:129)

        Allaah says,

        “You will never be able to [perfectly] deal justly between wives even if it is your ardent desire, so do not incline too much to one of them so as to leave the other hanging. And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allaah by keeping away from all that is wrong, then Allaah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Sooratun-Nisaa’, 4:129]

        Imaam ‘Abdur-Rahmaan Ibn Naasir as-Sa’dee [d. 1376] says in the commentary of these verses [pg. 208]: “Allaah, the Most High, informs us that husbands do not have the ability to be completely just between wives, and that is because complete justice requires the presence of equal love, attraction, and an inclination of the heart, and then the action this necessitates, and this is impossible, therefore Allaah has pardoned him for what he is not able (to do), and has prohibited him from that which he has the ability with His Statement “So do not incline too much to one of them so as to leave the other hanging…”. Meaning, do not incline heavily to one (over the other) to the point where you do not give them their obligatory rights, rather do all that is in your power to be just (between them). So, maintenance, clothing, the division of time etc., it is upon you to be equal between them in these, as opposed to love, sexual intercourse, etc., so if the husband abandons his wife she becomes as if she is suspended, neither divorced so as to marry, nor married where she receives her rights.” [End of the words of As-Sa’dee]

        The Imaam of the people of Tafseer, At-Tabaree (rahimahullaah), said in his commentary on this verse [9/284]: “This means: O men! You do not have the power to be equal between your wives in the love for them in your hearts so as to be impartial between them in that, so you will not have the equal amount of love in your hearts for all of them because this is something you have no control over even if it is your ardent desire, but do not let your feelings cause you to completely incline to the one you love more, until it causes you to oppress her co-wives in abandoning their rights from division of time and maintenance, and living with them in kindness, leaving the ones you love less like they are neither married nor divorced.”

        Ibn Katheer (rahimahullaah) says in his tafseer [2/392-393]: “You will never be able to [perfectly] deal justly between wives even if it is your ardent desire…” meaning: you will never be able to equate between wives from every perspective, so even if the division of time is equal between them, a night for a night, there will most certainly be inequality in love, desire, and sexual relations, as was said by Ibn Abbaas Ubaidah Ibn As-Salmaanee, Mujaahid, al-Hasan al-Basree, and ad-Dahhaak Ibn Muzaahim. Ibn Abee Haatim said: “Aboo Zur’aah narrated to us: Ibn Abee Shaybah narrated to us: Al-Hasan Al-Ju’fee narrated to us on the authority of Zaa’idah from ‘Abdul-Azeez Ibn Rufi’ on the authority of Ibn Abee Mulaikah who said: “This ayah, “You will never be able to [perfectly] deal justly between wives even if it is your ardent desire…” was revealed about Aa’ishah (radiyallaahu anhaa), meaning that the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam), loved her more than anyone.

        His statement: “So do not incline too much to one of them…” meaning: If you incline towards one of them (feelings, sexual relations, love) do not go overboard inclining completely “So as to leave the other hanging…” meaning: to leave the other suspended. Stated Ibn Abbaas, Mujaahid, Sa’eed Ibn Jubair, al-Hasan, ad-Dahhaak, Ar-Rabee’ Ibn Anas, as-Siddee, and Muqaatil Ibn Hayyaan: “It means neither married nor divorced.”

        And His statement: “…And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allaah by keeping away from all that is wrong, then Allaah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” meaning: if you properly place your affairs in order and divide between them justly in what you are able, and fear Allaah in all your affairs, Allaah will forgive you for your inclining (in the past) to one woman over the other.” [End of the statement of Ibn Katheer]

        Imaam al-Baghawee (rahimahullaah) says in his tafseer [2/295-296]: “You will never be able to (perfectly) deal justly between wives even if it is your ardent desire, so do not incline too much to one of them so as to leave the other hanging. And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allaah by keeping away from all that is wrong, then Allaah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

        Stated Sulaymaan Ibn Yasaar about this ayah on the authority of Ibn Abbaas: “If she was to give up some of her rights from the division of days, and maintenance, then that is permissible as long as she is pleased with that…”

        Stated Muqaatil Ibn Hayyaan about this ayah: “A man has under his care an older woman and then marries a young girl, he says to his older wife: “I will give you a portion of my wealth to give this young girl more days,’ so if she agrees then there is no harm, and if she refuses then it is upon him to divide justly between them.”

        His statement: “You will never be able to (perfectly) deal justly between wives…” meaning: you will not be able to be equal in your love, affection, and feelings, “Even if it is your ardent desire…” to be equal (in that), “so do not incline…” to the one you love more, “too much…” in the division of time and maintenance, meaning: do not let your actions follow your feelings, “so as to leave the other hanging…” meaning abandon the other like she is neither single nor married. Qataadah said: ‘Like she is imprisoned.’ [End of the quote of al-Baghawee] Stated Imaam ash-Shawkaanee (rahimahullaah) in his tafseer [1/665]: “You will never be able to [perfectly] deal justly between wives…” Allaah informs us of man’s inability to be completely equal between his wives. From that which the nature of the human being is created upon in feelings for one as opposed to the other, more for this one, less for that one and this is by virtue of their creation that they do not control their hearts.” [End of quote of Ash-Shawkaanee]

      • AbuJ – It seems to me as though you are contradicting yourself big time here about polygyny. You have repeated here many times how Allah says that men can never be able to treat multiple wives equally – yet in order to marry more than one wife in Islam, one of the conditions is that the wives must be treated equally. You are going around and around in circles here and getting nowhere.

        And yet again you are making assumptions about me, saying that I am “enslaved by her hardcore Arab/husband” – oh brother! For the last time, STOP MAKING INACCURATE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT ME, MY RELIGION, MY HUSBAND, AND THE WEST! And yes, I am yelling.

        AbuJ, you are totally hopeless because of the way your mind works. You cannot continually assume things like this about people and society. I worked alongside men, drove a car, and had lots of fun for decades in the US – and I was never once raped or had an affair with a co-worker. You keep saying these things like it is the norm for American women to be raped or to screw around, and that everyone’s lives are immoral in the West – when in actuality most people there lead normal and moral lives.

        You are focusing on a tiny segment of the population and thinking that everyone behaves badly that way. STOP!!! You are a fanatic – Get some help before it is too late and we see you on the evening news.

      • abujubair

        Susie, there is noo contradiction is Islaam.Treating equal means with your time, and money. You must provide each one of them with equal time, and money. The money depends on the financial needs of the woman. One wife maintenance might be $1500 monthly, another may be $850, but the man must provide “something”, and the woman stipulates that provision.You obviously did read the explanation that I sent, and you ask why I post such long comments? It is for clarity on detailed issues.

        As for the west (anything outside of the Islaamic world) When you weigh them against their own revealed scriptures they are a mess. You see the thing with the western culture is that it is hedonistic(and you know it is), and they made sin, and everything that leads to it permissible you cannot deny this. They even legalized prostitution in Nevada. However there pockets of “some” decency.

        Susie, don’t lie, in America women are allowed to have boyfriends, and are encouraged to date, and not to settle down early and get married and they screw and get abortions all through high school and college(married women dont usually get abortions by the way), the society uses the bodies of women as commodities to sell goods, and to attract attention, pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry, the West lacks morals. Now this is not all women, but it is the norm.
        Various documentaries and statistics show that women are the recipient of the majority of violence in the U.S., and alot of them are in the wrong place, wrong time, places they should not be.
        No rape is not the norm, but sex with multiple partners is the norm. Polytheism is the norm(Christians, Buddhists, etc..), magic is the norm, usury is the norm, crime is the norm (we lock up and have incarcerated presently more people than any other country in the world) fornicating/adulterous Hollywood is the norm, bullying our way around the world is the norm, homosexuality is becoming the norm all of this is allowed by them in contradiction to their religion; on the dollar bill it says , “In God We Trust”.!!!
        We can leave Islaam out (for a minute), when the weighed by their scriptures (old and new testaments) they are worst than animals.
        Not saying these things are not present amongst the Muslims, but Islaam and the Muslims hold all of the above, and more as Allah holds it; haraam.!!!!
        As for your husband I assume that he is Muslim I have nothing to say about him, I hope he is calling you Islaam. I could not see myself marrying a kaafir, because we would have a trifle in common.
        And yes a portion of men and women do mix without falling into the haraam, but dont ignore this..
        From the Wall Street Journal, i’m quite sure you are familiar.

      • abujubair

        Don’t forget I was born and raised here in this bastion of open sin, and was once a product of my environment. Was born and raised as a practicing Christian; realized the Christians are lying on Allah and his Messenger Jesus.
        The problem Allah has with the kuffar is that they abandoned the guidance legislated for them,
        Allah says in 12(40)” The hukm (legislation) is for none but Allah,” and in 18(26),” And, “He(Allah) makes none share in His decision and rule (hukm)” (Al-Kahf 18:26)
        and lastly in 42(21), ““Or do they have partners with Allah to legislate for them in the deen(their way of life) what Allah does not allow” (ash Shoora 42:21)
        This is the problem, these free societies invented, and “ALLOW” what their(our) creator did not legislate for them, and when they did this they marginalized, and side lined his legislation and rule, consequently these people disbelieved.
        When they did this they are saying that mankind knows what is best, not our creator.How can a person be of high morality when they don’t govern themselves by divine guidance, but rather they choose ever changing opinions, laws and desires.
        Allah says in 5(49), “And judge between them according to what Allah has revealed and do not follow their opinions and beware of them lest they confuse you in matters which Allah has revealed to you.” (al Maaidah 5:49)

        Lastly, ““O you who believe! If you obey the kaafiroon they will drive you back on your heels and you will turn back (from Islam) to your own loss.” (aali I’mraan 3:149)”
        We only follow and obey the kuffar when it is obedience to Allah and his Messenger.
        Susie, may Allah guide you to Islaam. Ameen.!!!

  222. bigstick

    Last line should read: GO AWAY!!!! GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!

    Worth repeating again though. GET LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • abujubair

      More on polygyny from the Islaamic legislation…
      As for the punishment for those who are unjust between their wives in that which they have the ability not to be, then this comes in the hadeeth that is collected in the Sunan of Aboo Daawood (no. 2133), an-Nisaa’ee in his Sunan (2/157), at-Tirmidhee in his Jaami’ (1/213), Ibn Maajah in his Sunan (no. 1969), ad-Daarimee in his Sunan (2/143), and others, and is authenticated by al-Muhaddith al-Albaanee in Irwaa al-Ghaleel (no. 2017), on the authority of Aboo Hurayrah who said: The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said:

      “Whoever has two wives and inclines toward one of them (over the other) he will come on the Day of Judgement and one side of his body will be slanted.”

      al-Imaam at-Tirmidhee (rahimahullaah) brings this hadeeth under the chapter: ‘What has come in the Equality Between Co-wives’. Al-Muhaddith al-Mubaarakfuree says in the explanation of this chapter in Tuhfatul-Ahwadhee [4/247]: “ÇáÖÑÇÆÑ [from the verb ÖÑø which means to harm] The co-wives of a man (are called this because) each one of them harms the other with jealousy, and the division [of time].”

      Al-Mubaarakfuree continues: “He will come on the Day of Judgement and one side of his body will be slanted.” At-Teebee said: meaning one half of him will be slanted so that the members of the families can see him as an addition to the punishment, and this is not limited to the one who has two wives, if he had three or four than this punishment is established.” [End of the quote of al-Mubaarakfuree]

      Al-Muhaddith al-Adheem al-Aabaadee (rahimahullaah) says in Awnul-Ma’bud (the explanation of the Sunan of Abee Daawood), on this hadeeth [6/136]: “Whoever has two wives” for example, “and inclines toward one of them over the other” meaning he is not just between them rather he shows favouritism to one over the other, “one side of his body will be slanted” sloping. This hadeeth is a proof that it is obligatory upon a man to be just between women, and it is prohibited for him to show favouritism to one over the other.” [End of the quote of Al-Aabaadee]

      Al-Muhaddith Muhammad Ibn Adam Al-Ithyubee (rahimahullaah) says in his explanation of an-Nisaa’ee [28/178-179]: “Benefits of this hadeeth: The clarification of the ruling of a man favouring some of his wives over others, and it is impermissible; due to the punishment that is mentioned in the hadeeth.

      And from them: The obligation of dividing equally between wives. And from them: The concern of the sharee’ah to remove that which will cause enmity and hatred between the ummah, so it prohibited discrimination between the wives because that brings about breaking up a man and his family, rather it transcends to the families of the wives, so it is obligatory to avoid that.

      And from them: The encouragement to have excellent character, from dividing equally between those (affairs) the sharee’ah has commanded to, so it is not permissible to show favouritism to one side over the other unless it is legislated, like if one of the wives is a slave, then it is not obligatory to be equal between her and the freed wife in division, rather she gets half of the days that are given to the freed wife, and Allaah knows best.

      He goes on to quote al-Qurtubee in how the man should make the division: He (al-Qurtubee) says: ‘As for how he should divide, then there is no difference of opinion that he should give each of them their night alone, and many of the scholars say the day, and some of them are of the opinion of the obligation of this is at night, not during the day, and he should not enter upon one on them on the other ones night, unless there is a need to, and they differ with regards to his entering with a need or necessity, and the majority of them are of the opinion that it is permissible, Imaam Maalik and others. And in the book of Ibn Habeeb he prohibits it. And that he is just between them in maintenance and clothing if they are equal in status, not if they are of different stations.”

      Al-Muhaddith Muammad Ibn Adam says after quoting al-Qurtubee: “This statement of al-Qurtubee about not having to be equal between them if they are of different status needs proof specifying it with the general proofs of the obligation of equality in division (of time and maintenance).” [End of the quote of Ibn Adam]

      There has come in the authentic sunnah many proofs of a man loving one wife more than the others, one for example is what come in the Sunan of an-Nisa’ee in the chapter: ‘A man loving some of his wives more than others’. The hadeeth on the authority of Aa’ishah who said: “The wives of the Messenger of Allaah sent Faatimah, the daughter of the Messenger of Allaah to the Prophet and she sought permission to enter, so when she entered he was laying with me on my Mirt (type of wool garment) so she said: ‘O Messenger of Allaah! Indeed your wives sent me to you asking for equality with the daughter of Aboo Quaafah (Aa’ishah).” And I remained quiet. So the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said to her:

      “O my daughter! Do you not love the one I love?” She said: “Of course.” He said: “Then love this one…”

      Muhammad Ibn Adam says in the explanation of this hadeeth [28/187-188]: “O Messenger of Allaah! Indeed your wives sent me to you asking for equality with the daughter of Aboo Quaafah (Aa’ishah)” Imaam an-Nawawee said: ‘Its meaning is that they are asking you to be equal in the love in your heart, as the Prophet used to be just between them with maintenance and nights, etc., but as for the love of his heart then he used to love Aa’ishah more than the others, and the there is a consensus of the Muslims that it is not upon him to love them all the same because no one has power over that except Allaah, and He only commanded with equality in actions.” [End of quote]

      I say. Parents may have multiple children and love them all generally, but at time may incline more to one child than the others. Or a woman loves all her shoes, but one pair is more beloved that the rest.

      • bigstick

        Wow!!! The art of reading between the lines with you is so easy. Women are children with the value of a shoe. Generally people throw shoes out once there worn out or no longer fashionable. Nice!!! What everyone wants for their mother, daughter or sister. Guess that is why Muhammad (pbuh) didn’t allow his daughter to be a multiple wife.

  223. abujubair

    I was born here. Never voted even before Islaam I saw it as a sham, grandfather used to a committee man, the politicians are all liars, and hypocrites even by the standards of Christianity. They endorse that which their religion shuns. We don’t vote, the rulers are from the people so there is no real, everlasting change. Like a roller coaster republicans come in, and peel back what the democrats have done and the ball never stops.
    In Islaam it’s called Hijrah (migration) to the land where Islaam can be openly manifested, and we can do that here. We do plan(my family) on making Hijrah to Saudi or another Muslim country that is religious once we all complete schooling.
    Sticky, nobody is perfect (at all) but the west embraces hypocrisy, we all make mistakes, sin, etc…but the West makes hypocrisy the norm and permissible
    There is HUGE difference in making Allah’s prohibitions allowable(humans playing the creator, and the masters role) in the name of freedom, versus committing a sins a believing and knowing what you are doing is wrong.
    This is that im am saying throughout all my posts.

  224. Here is your proof that polygomy is against the law in the US:

    U.S. Supreme Court
    REYNOLDS v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878)
    98 U.S. 145


    October Term, 1878

    The following has been taken from the case above.

    By the statute of 1 James I. (c. 11), the offence, if committed in England or Wales, was made punishable in the civil courts, and the penalty was death. As this statute was limited in its operation to England and Wales, it was at a very early period re-enacted, generally with some modifications, in all the colonies. In connection with the case we are now considering, it is a significant fact that on the 8th of December, 1788, after the passage of the act establishing religious freedom, and after the convention of Virginia had recommended as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States the declaration in a bill of rights that ‘all men have an equal, natural, and unalienable right to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience,’ the legislature of that State substantially enacted the statute of James I., death penalty included, because, as recited in the preamble, ‘it hath been doubted whether bigamy or poligamy be punishable by the laws of this Commonwealth.’ 12 Hening’s Stat. 691. From that day to this we think it may safely be said there never has been a time in any State of the Union when polygamy has not been an offence against society, cognizable by the civil courts and punishable with more or less severity. In the face of all this evidence, it is impossible to believe that the constitutional guaranty of religious freedom was intended to prohibit legislation in respect to this most important feature of social life. Marriage, while from its very nature a sacred obligation, is nevertheless, in most civilized nations, a civil contract, and usually regulated by law. Upon it society may be said to be built, and out of its fruits spring social relations and social obligations and duties, with which government is necessarily required to deal. In fact, according as monogamous or polygamous marriages are allowed, do we find the principles on which the government of [98 U.S. 145, 166] the people, to a greater or less extent, rests. Professor, Lieber says, polygamy leads to the patriarchal principle, and which, when applied to large communities, fetters the people in stationary despotism, while that principle cannot long exist in connection with monogamy. Chancellor Kent observes that this remark is equally striking and profound. 2 Kent, Com. 81, note (e). An exceptional colony of polygamists under an exceptional leadership may sometimes exist for a time without appearing to disturb the social condition of the people who surround it; but there cannot be a doubt that, unless restricted by some form of constitution, it is within the legitimate scope of the power of every civil government to determine whether polygamy or monogamy shall be the law of social life under its dominion.

    In our opinion, the statute immediately under consideration is within the legislative power of Congress. It is constitutional and valid as prescribing a rule of action for all those residing in the Territories, and in places over which the United States have exclusive control. This being so, the only question which remains is, whether those who make polygamy a part of their religion are excepted from the operation of the statute. If they are, then those who do not make polygamy a part of their religious belief may be found guilty and punished, while those who do, must be acquitted and go free. This would be introducing a new element into criminal law. Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinions, they may with practices. Suppose one believed that human sacrifices were a necessary part of religious worship, would it be seriously contended that the civil government under which he lived could not interfere to prevent a sacrifice? Or if a wife religiously believed it was her duty to burn herself upon the funeral pile of her dead husband, would it be beyond the power of the civil government to prevent her carrying her belief into practice?

    So here, as a law of the organization of society under the exclusive dominion of the United States, it is provided that plural marriages shall not be allowed. Can a man excuse his practices to the contrary because of his religious belief? [98 U.S. 145, 167] To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself. Government could exist only in name under such circumstances

    • @Bigstick
      He knows very well it is illegal in the US. He just got caught in a bald-faced lie about how he follows American law- when in actuality he doesn’t. He then tried to turn it into a discussion of whether or not it should be permissable or is permissable in Islam, or in the US- which is beside the point. The point being he lied, and all the other nonsense is an attempt to cover that- but we all saw it.
      He also seems a bit naive about how the law works if a legal wife decides to pursue things- but he may be right in his case it won’t matter, if both his wives think along the same lines he does. But it doesn’t change the fact that the situation of a legal wife and a religious one are unbalanced under US law- whatever your will might say.
      Interesting for all his huffing and puffing Saudi Arabia takes very seriously the legal documentation of marriage- probably even more so than the US. If you can’t prove it legally you can be lashed or worse.

      • abujubair

        Bigstick, and Sandy you should know by now that Wikipedia is not %100 trustworthy anyone can upload on there, and Warren Jeffs is non-factor with Islaam and the Muslims.
        Anyhow, if a man has two, three, or four wives and does not go through the courts then what. It is ONLY illegal when have two open marriage licenses; a.k.a.bigamy.
        How come you don’t criticize their legalization of same sex marriages?? You should be promoting the practice of polygyny since you are Muslim and are obliged to at least believe in it and it benefits. Most of Islaam can be practiced in kuffar countries except thing like the prescribed punishments, etc.
        Why are you so praiseworthy of the the U.S.A., like these people, and their laws are equal to Allah and his messenger and shari’ah?? They had to adopt man-made laws because they “CHANGED AND ABANDONED ” THEIR RELIGION. Ploygyny is also in their books (old and new testaments).
        Are you a real Muslim who believes in and follows the traditions of our forefathers, or one these so called, deviant “progressives”??
        You are strange because you never criticize that and those which you have to criticize, nor do you praise that which you must praise. All you wanna do is come at me, while you are subtly in the bed with kuffar. It seems like you love them, and hate me.

      • abujubair

        A Censure of The Intellect
        Imaam Abul Muthaffar As Sam’aanee Rahimahullah said:

        The People of the Sunnah say, ‘The foundation of the Religion is following (Ittibaa’), and the intellect is subservient.’ So if the foundation of the Religion was left to the intellect, the creation would have been in no need of Revelation, nor of Prophets, and the commands and prohibitions would have no meaning, and anyone could have said whatever he wanted. (1)

        From Abdullah Ibn Umar Radi’Allahu Anhu said:

        My brother and I were sitting in a gathering…and then some elders from the companions of the Messenger of Allah Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam came and they sat by one of his doors. We hated to divide between them so we sat to one side. They mentioned an aayah from the Qur’aan and began arguing about it until they raised their voices. So the Messenger of Allah Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam came out angry. Indeed his face was red: He flung his dust at them and said:

        Slow Down of my People! Nations befor you were destroyed because for this, due to their differing about their Prophets and due to their claims that parts of their books contradicted other Parts. Verily the Qur’aan was not sent down to contradict itself, rather it affirms itself. So whatever you know from it, then act upon it; and whatever you are ignorant of, then refer it to someone who is knowledgeable about it.” (2)

        Imaam Ahmad Rahimahullah said, “So we refer the Qur’aan to One who is knowledgeable about it, to Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, as He is the most knowledgeable about it.” (3)

        Imaam As Sam’aanee said:

        Indeed they make their intellects callers to Allah, and they take them to the level of Messengers concerning what is between them. So if a Person says:’None has the Right to be worshipped except Allah and my intellect is the Messenger of Allah,’ it will not be objectionable for this to be ascribed to the people of rhetoric by way of its meaning. (4)

        (1)= al Hujjah (85/a)
        (2)= Hasan: Related by Ahmad in his Musnad (2/181) by way of Abu Haazim from Amr ibn Shu’ayb, from his father, form his grandfather. Abu Haazim is Salamah Ibn Dinar whi is reliable. Its chain of narrators is hasan.
        (3)= Related by Hanbal Ibn Ishaq in al Mihnah (p.45) from Ahmad
        (4)= See al Hujjah (83/a)

        The Creed of the Four Imaams Pg. 8-9

    • abujubair

      A Sandy I remember you were a little confused on the hadeeth issue, here is a “primer”, for you and your lackey Bigstick…..

      A Brief History of the Science of Hadeeth
      By Shaykh Ahmad Muhammad Shaakir
      Translation by Maaz Qureshi [1]

      About the Author

      This is taken from ‘al-Baa’ithul Hatheeth Sharh Ikhtisaar ‘Uloomul Hadeeth’ – Shaykh Ahmad Shaakir’s commentary on ‘Ikhtisaar ‘Uloomul Hadeeth’ by al-Haafidh Ibn Katheer, (p. 13-16)

      So here I would like to point out the benefit of this knowledge humbly called, ‘mustalahahul hadeeth’ (the science of hadeeth), and its effect upon the divinely-revealed, and historical sciences, and other than them from the various types of sciences which are established from the authentic texts, and which rely upon it.

      So verily the Muslims – from the first generation – had a great concern for memorization of the chains of narration in their Revelation from the Book and the Sunnah, the like of which no nation from before them had. So they memorized the Qur`aan, and they reported from the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) frequently, sentence by sentence, and word by word, and letter by letter. They preserved it in their chests, and they confirmed it upon pages of their writings, and they authored books about it with exhaustive detail. They also memorized much about their Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), everyone of his statements or actions or conditions. He was a teacher from his Lord, and an explainer of His Revelation, and a commander of the establishment of His Religion. All of his (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) statements and actions and conditions are an explanation of the Qur`aan. He is the infallible Messenger and the good example. Allaah the Exalted says in describing him:

      “He does not speak from desire. Verily it is not but Revelation revealed to him.” [Sooratun Najm 53:3-4]

      Allaah says:

      “And We revealed to you the Reminder for you to explain to the people what has been revealed to them, in the hopes that they may become thoughtful.” [Sooratun Nahl 16:44]

      Allaah also says:

      “Indeed there is a good example for you in the Messenger of Allaah.” [Sooratul Ahzaab 33:21]

      ‘Abdullaah Ibn ‘Umar Ibnul ‘Aas used to write everything he heard from the Messenger of Allaah, so the Quraysh forbade him from that and it was mentioned to the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam). So he said: “Write. So by the One in Whose Hand my soul is, nothing emanates from me except truth.” [2] The Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) commanded the Muslims in the farewell pilgrimage to teach about him as a general command. So he said: “So let the one who is present teach the one who is absent. So it may be that the one who is being taught may be more heedful than him.” [3] He also said: “So let the one who is present teach the one who is absent, for the one who taught may be more heedful than the one who heard directly.” [4] So the Muslims understood that all this was obligatory upon them. They memorized everything about the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and they acted upon that, and they went to great lengths to fulfill this trust, and they related hadeeths from him; either as well known (mashhoor), or with authentically established chains of narrations. According to the scholars, this is named an authentic hadeeth (hadeeth saheeh) or a good hadeeth (hadeeth hasan).

      The scholars of hadeeth took great care to make sure they collected everything that was narrated from him as a narration, even if it was not authentic. Then they strove to authenticate every hadeeth, and every letter narrated in a narration. So they criticized their conditions and their narrations and they took the most extreme care in quoting. So they would rule a hadeeth to be weak due to a little doubt in the biography of a narrator’s character which affected his reliability according to the people of knowledge. So if they doubted in his truthfulness and they knew that he had lied about something in his statements, then they would discard his narrations and they would call his hadeeth fabricated (mawdhoo’) or lies (makdhoob), even if he was not particularly known for lying in narrating hadeeths and even though they knew the liar could have been telling the truth.

      Likewise, they used to check the memorization of every narrator and read his narrations with other ones. So if they found many mistakes from him and his memorization was not good, they would declare his narrations weak, even if he had not been disparaged in his character or his truthfulness. It was feared that his memory might be unreliable in his narrations.

      Indeed they wrote and compiled the fundamental principles that were required for the acceptance of hadeeth, so these are the fundamental principles of this field of study. So they refined them with as close examination as humanly possible, so as to preserve their Religion. So the fundamental that they established became the soundest fundamentals for confirming historical accounts and the finest and the most delicate, even though it is despised – in these later times – by most of the people since they do not have adequate knowledge about it or clarification.

      So the scholars of many different sciences followed them in this. So the scholars of language and the scholars of literature and the scholars of history and other than these imitated them. So they made efforts to relate everything of their sciences with a chain of narrators, as you will see in the older books. So the foundations of this knowledge were used with the intention of authenticating narrations in anything that involved narrating. So this knowledge is the basis for any narration-based science.

      Along with this however, there were some people who innovated a vile innovation. They alleged that hadeeths could not be used as proofs because, in some conventions, it was called ‘uncertain affirmation’ (dhanniyyatuth thuboot). This means that it was not affirmed with concurrency (tawaatur) requiring absoluteness in narrations. So they concluded that such narrations do not provide conclusive knowledge. This group did not realize that the term ‘definitive knowledge’ was just a convention among some scholars to be applied to some sciences only. In the case of hadeeth however, the most authentic reports were declared authentic by any scholar who had studied hadeeth, even if it was not concurrent (mutawaatir). If they were to reject every non-recurrent narration, then they should first eliminate every science that relies upon narration; including history. However, at that time, the group that went with such a bad opinion was small, overwhelmed, and they did not have any influence upon Islaamic sciences.

      However in this century, there has appeared a new group who alleged the same old allegations and more. They claim that all hadeeths are unauthentic and baseless, so it is not allowed to use them as proofs in matters of the Religion. Some even went to the point of rejecting all the rules and fundamental set for hadeeth checking; and started authenticating hadeeths according to desires and feelings, without any particular rule or proof. For these people, there is no cure except if they learn Islaamic knowledge and have respect for it, and Allaah guides whomever He wills.

      So as for the attack upon authentic hadeeths, and the doubt in their attribution to the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), then this is nothing less than an announcement of war against the Muslims for those who do it despite knowledge. It is also due to ignorance and lack of study for those who blindly follow the first group. So the meaning of this doubt and attack is that all the reliable narrators from amongst the Salafus-Saalih were untrustworthy liars. It necessitates accusing them of either telling lies and misleading the people, or of ignorance and stupidity. Indeed Allaah rescued them from these things, and they knew the reality of the statement of the Messenger of Allaah: “Whoever lies upon me deliberately, then let him take his seat in the Fire.” [5] He also said: “Whoever relates a hadeeth from me and thinks that it is a lie, then he is one of the liars.” [6]

      So the one who accuses them of lying has passed a judgement which is free of any good quality and which will cause him to dwell in the Fire. This is because lying is from the greatest of major sins, then it is from the most evil of qualities and the worst of them. No nation shall succeed if lying is common among its people, even if it is in small matters. So what about telling lies in the Religion and about the best of the Messengers (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)? Indeed the people of the first generation of Muslims – and in the first three generations – were the best of the people and the highest in character and they were the most fearful of Allaah. So due to that, Allaah aided them and gave them victory and opened many counties to them and they came to rule many nations in a few years. This was because of their Religion and beautiful character before it was due to their sword and spear.


      [1] This is taken from ‘al-Baa’ithul Hatheeth Sharh Ikhtisaar ‘Uloomul Hadeeth’ – shaykh Ahmad Shaakir’s commentary on ‘Ikhtisaar ‘Uloomul Hadeeth’ by al-Haafidh Ibn Katheer, (p. 13-16)

      [2] Related by Ahmad in his Musnad (no. 6510)(2/162) with an authentic chain of narrators. It is also related by Abu Daawood and al-Haakim and other than them in meaning.

      [3] Related in Fathul Baaree (1/46) and others.

      [4] See Fathul Baaree (3/459).

      [5] Shaykh al-Albaanee has declared it to be an authentic concurrent hadeeth, he records 63 different routes for it. See: Mukhtasar Saheeh Muslim (no. 1861-1862), Rawdhun Nadheer (no. 707), and Saheehul Jaami’ (no. 6519).

      [6] Related by Abu Dardaa’, reported by Ahmad, Muslim, and Ibn Maajah. Shaykh al-Albaanee has declared it authentic in Saheehul Jaami’ (no. 6199), and from Samoorah and Mugheerah (no. 1863), also see ad-Da’eefah (1/12).

  225. I really doubt Saudi Arabia would let him in. Even Saudi Arabia has standards. However, if